Which buffing pads for the FLEX XCE 10-8 Supa Beast?

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Which buffing pads for the FLEX XCE 10-8 Supa Beast?



Anytime I get questions via e-mail, a PM or a FB message I prefer to invest my typing time where

A: It's easier for me to share links, pictures and videos.

B: More people can read and thus benefit from the information. (no just one set of eyeballs)


The reality is, most people that contact me found me via an article I've written or a reply I've written on this forum. The thing is, instead of figuring out that the whole reason they are contacting me is because they found me via an article or answer I wrote on the forum that they to should bring their question to the forum because not only will that help them.... but it will help a future "them". If I answer everything in a private e-mail or other touch point, no one would find and contact me. It's a cycle or pattern that repeats as long as everything is shared in the public domain.

The above is kind of wordy but re-read it slowly and it will make sense.


So I get an e-mail asking,

Hey Mike!

I was gifted the new Flex XCE 10-8 “Supa Beast” for Christmas and I wanted to pick your brain.

I am an avid user of the rotary and the free spinning Rupes orbital machines. I know with the 3401, the “fan favorite” foam pads were the LC Force Hybrid pads which are thick.

Do you find that these are still generally the most comfortable option (regarding user experience) on the XCE 10-8 as they were on the 3401, or would you prefer something like the Buff ‘n Shine Uro-Tec pads - or maybe even thin Mille pads? What would your choice of wool pad be - something like the rupes DA wool or the LC purple wool?

Thank you!
​

Great questions!


I've probably used the new Supa BEAST as much or more than anyone since I've had it longer than anyone, at least in the U.S.A.

Here's my take and preference.

First - Because it's basically an updated version of the traditional BEAST, that is a corded 8mm gear-driven orbital polisher without the aluminum housing. So with the CORDED version I LIKE and PREFER the 6" backing plate so I can turn and churn the 6.5" Lake Country Force Hybrid Foam Pads. And "yes" these are thick foam pads but a gear-driven tool don't care what kind of pad you put on it because it's gear-driven.



And then get some Lake Country 6.5" Force Hybrid pads.

Lake Country Hybrid Power Finish 6.5 Inch Pads


I can plow through just about any project with a collection of,

Orange
White
Black

Mostly the orange and white.





Tool Action Transfer

I've seen people make the argument that a thinner pad transfers the action of the tool to the surface of the paint better and I believe it and agree with it but in the BIG PICTURE of car detailing, you put a foam cutting pad on the Supa BEAST and use a quality compound, crank it up to the 6 speed setting and any defect that should be removed is going to be removed regardless of how thick or thin the pad is. PLUS in my experience, for the same reason a thin pad transfers the action of a gear-driven tool to the surface better it also tends to yank you around better. One step forward, one step back.


Now if you're going to use the 5" backing plate, then at this time any of the 5.5 and 6" pads from LC, B&S, RUPES and Griot's work great.


Hope that helps...








Hope that helps and feel encouraged to join our forum, this is where I answer questions. Email and Facebook messaging are okay, but the forum is a LOT more powerful. (think about it - it's how you found me in the first place)


Click here to join the AutogeekOnline.net car detailing discussion forum - THE best forum on the Internet




(the above is just a template that is now a sticky so each time someone sends me an e-mail or FB message I don't have to search for an older reply I wrote to get the formatted text above, I have it here in this sticky.


As I say... I always type for the future.... never just the present...


:laughing:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

More....


Here's my article on doing the backing plate swap for the Supa BEAST

Supa BEAST backing plate swap




And I recently wrote this article for foam buffing pads for the new Griot's G9 - the pads shown here would be a good choice for the 5" backing plate on the Supa BEAST.

Foam Pad Options for the Griots G9 Polisher




Also note - I'm testing some pads for the 5" backing plate on the Supa BEAST and the CBEAST.

 

[Gloss Garage Detail]

Hey Mike! Jordan here (who sent you the email) - thank you for taking the time to write a post up about this! I am not much for forums, but maybe in the future I can be more active here with any questions & whatnot.

I got to play with the machine for about 20 minutes last week, using a 5.5" LC Force Hybrid Orange foam and then a normal thickness Rupes Yellow foam. I can honestly say that with the Orange LC Force Hybrid, it was one of the worst, most uncomfortable polishing experiences I have ever had. I was keeping the pad as flat as I could, tried it at multiple speeds, and was using the Rupes Mille Fine polish which as you know was designed for gear driven movement. I made it through half of the hood and I was already wanting to sell it. I then swapped to the slightly thinner (1/4" thinner I believe?) Rupes Yellow foam and my experience was significantly improved, however still not great.

Admittedly, I am not much of a forced rotation user. I love my rotary polishers (DeWalt, Flex, and Rupes) for sanding mark removal and for an aggressive first cut when needed - and I use my Rupes 21 Mark II / Flex XFE 7-12 80 / iBrid Nano for all else. I do own a Mille, and in my opinion/experience it is much smoother than the 3401, but I never reach for it over my random orbitals unless it is a very curvaceous vehicle or I am trying to dial in some edgework.

As disappointed as I was, I played with my XCE again tonight for about two hours, and I now enjoy the machine much more. This time, I tried it with an LC Low Lint Lambswool pad paired with some Griot's Fast Correcting Cream, and the walking was much easier to control. Fairly comfortable - not as much as my rotary or random orbitals - but very manageable. I then followed up using what you suggested - a Griot's Perfecting yellow foam pad - paired it with a few small drops of Perfecting Cream, and WOW was it a different machine. So much smoother, lightyears easier to control, and just a much more enjoyable experience all around. I also gave it a go with the Mille foams/Mille Fine polish, and an HDO Orange foam with some Sonax Perfect Finish - all of which were very smooth.

Everyone's mileage may vary - I certainly don't have the experience with this machine (or likely any machine, for that matter ) that you do. I can say though, that the Force Hybrid pads - at least the denser orange - is NOT for me. Although the powerful forced rotation has zero issue churning anything you put on it, it was a completely different machine when used with thinner (and slightly softer) pads.

I am happy I own this XCE now - it is smoother and more comfortable to me than the 3401 by far. I will just have to stick to the thin pads I guess.

Just my $.02 and personal experience here. Great machine and from an avid Rupes & Flex user, seems like another home run for Flex.

Thanks again, Mike Very much appreciated.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Hey Mike! Jordan here (who sent you the email) - thank you for taking the time to write a post up about this! I am not much for forums, but maybe in the future I can be more active here with any questions & whatnot.

Hi Jordan,

Thank you for joining the forum. Thank you also for understanding why I prefer to answer question on the forum. It takes a little time to type out helpful info and I prefer to share it with thousands of eyeballs over the decades versus type out a reply in an e-mail where only one set of eyeballs will see the answer.

I got to play with the machine for about 20 minutes last week, using a 5.5" LC Force Hybrid Orange foam and then a normal thickness Rupes Yellow foam. I can honestly say that with the Orange LC Force Hybrid, it was one of the worst, most uncomfortable polishing experiences I have ever had. I was keeping the pad as flat as I could, tried it at multiple speeds, and was using the Rupes Mille Fine polish which as you know was designed for gear driven movement. I made it through half of the hood and I was already wanting to sell it. I then swapped to the slightly thinner (1/4" thinner I believe?) Rupes Yellow foam and my experience was significantly improved, however still not great.

Admittedly, I am not much of a forced rotation user. I love my rotary polishers (DeWalt, Flex, and Rupes) for sanding mark removal and for an aggressive first cut when needed - and I use my Rupes 21 Mark II / Flex XFE 7-12 80 / iBrid Nano for all else. I do own a Mille, and in my opinion/experience it is much smoother than the 3401, but I never reach for it over my random orbitals unless it is a very curvaceous vehicle or I am trying to dial in some edgework.

As disappointed as I was, I played with my XCE again tonight for about two hours, and I now enjoy the machine much more. This time, I tried it with an LC Low Lint Lambswool pad paired with some Griot's Fast Correcting Cream, and the walking was much easier to control. Fairly comfortable - not as much as my rotary or random orbitals - but very manageable. I then followed up using what you suggested - a Griot's Perfecting yellow foam pad - paired it with a few small drops of Perfecting Cream, and WOW was it a different machine. So much smoother, lightyears easier to control, and just a much more enjoyable experience all around. I also gave it a go with the Mille foams/Mille Fine polish, and an HDO Orange foam with some Sonax Perfect Finish - all of which were very smooth.

Everyone's mileage may vary - I certainly don't have the experience with this machine (or likely any machine, for that matter ) that you do. I can say though, that the Force Hybrid pads - at least the denser orange - is NOT for me. Although the powerful forced rotation has zero issue churning anything you put on it, it was a completely different machine when used with thinner (and slightly softer) pads.

I am happy I own this XCE now - it is smoother and more comfortable to me than the 3401 by far. I will just have to stick to the thin pads I guess.

Just my $.02 and personal experience here. Great machine and from an avid Rupes & Flex user, seems like another home run for Flex.

Thanks again, Mike Very much appreciated.

Actually, I'm not a fan of the smaller 5.5" Force Hybrid pads on any of the FLEX gear-driven tools. It's too thick and squatty. I don't find the tool easy to guide and buff with using this shape of pad. If using a 5" backing plate on any of the gear-driven FLEX tools I much prefer the thinner LC HDO, SDO pads, the B&S Uro-Tech pads and "yes" the RUPES 6" foam pads, (using RUPES anything on a non-RUPES tool is called co-mingling and a hex be on my head)


On the CORDED BEASTS - I do like and prefer the 6.5" LC Force Hybrid pads. Larger 6.5" pads from B&S, LC and yes, RUPES also work great but the BEASTS will be hard on RUPES pads. I'm sure it's nothing personal.


If you send me your shipping address, I'll send you the larger backing plate for your Supa BEAST and some 6.5" LC Force Hybrid pads to test out.


I will say however - that the BEAST and the Supa BEAST are in fact BEASTS and no one becomes an expert or even comfortable or proficient until they buff out some cars or as I like to say,

Spend some time behind the tool...

It's true I have years of hours behind most tools and I can in fact make them all dance on paint, but I paid the price to get here, the price of time in the garage and in most cases, making other people's cars shine.


Stick with her, she's a power friend and asset when it comes to taking a diamond in the rough and turning it into a glistening gemstone....

 

[Gloss Garage Detail]

Mike, thank you and you’re welcome for replying here! It makes perfect sense, write ups and Facebook posts have helped me in the past so if this could help someone else even a little bit, I’m all for it.

That is interesting regarding the 5.5” Force pads, I would imagine they would cause less walk but then again, I am not familiar with these units

That is INCREDIBLY kind of you to do that - I will email you my shipping address and try them out ASAP, and report back here. I cannot thank you enough for that!!

This machine is absolutely a “Supa Beast” - I am thankful I have it and I look forward to more time behind it!

Happy New Year!!

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Mike, thank you and you’re welcome for replying here! It makes perfect sense, write ups and Facebook posts have helped me in the past so if this could help someone else even a little bit, I’m all for it.

Copy that... :xyxthumbs:



That is interesting regarding the 5.5” Force pads, I would imagine they would cause less walk but then again, I am not familiar with these units.

Just too thick in my experience for the diameter and the shape of the pad. They are too cylindrical. They would work better if they had some taper to them like the originals.

That is INCREDIBLY kind of you to do that - I will email you my shipping address and try them out ASAP, and report back here. I cannot thank you enough for that!!

This machine is absolutely a “Supa Beast” - I am thankful I have it and I look forward to more time behind it!

Will ship out today.

 

[Gloss Garage Detail]

Received the plate and pads today and put the plate on the Supa Beast! Definitely a sizable difference, I look forward to trying it this week as soon as I get the chance.

Again, thank you so much Mike. I appreciate it a ton!

5” plate with a 5.5” Orange Force Hybrid Pad on the left - 6” plate with a 6.5” Orange Force Hybrid Pad on the right

I agree, these 5.5” pads on the 5” backing plate are too tall/cylindrical and with the stiff orange, the experience was just poor. I was also surprised because I would have put money on the 5.5” being smoother than the larger. For the smaller size, I’ll definitely be sticking to Griots pads or something similar and will have a verdict on the larger size soon.

I’m also excited about trying a lot of my 6”-6.5” wool pads (PFW, Hybrid Wool, etc.) with this machine now that I have a backing plate to fit them. Didn’t even think about it until now.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Received the plate and pads today and put the plate on the Supa Beast! Definitely a sizable difference, I look forward to trying it this week as soon as I get the chance.

I wish I could give you a 5 minute lesson in person. I would show you how to make this polisher dance on paint or plow through paint depending on when you need to do.

Don't be afraid to man-handle it. If you need to remove swirls and scratches, hold the pad flat to the surface and PRESS down on it! Make sure YOU control it. If you feel it pulling in any direction then you're not holding the pad flat to the surface. This tool is a true BEAST but YOU have to become the Master and show it who's the boss!

Again, thank you so much Mike. I appreciate it a ton!

I just filled out a "New Product Request" form. Management trusts me and signs-off on it and then the samples are shipped. So thanks be to Autogeek.


AND - if you ever see me teaching a class in your area - attend. You will learn more in my class than 10 years of trying to figure it all out on your own.

 

[MarkD51]

After reading these comments and observations, it made me think a little bit what these mentioned influences are, how they are lessened, and had some other thoughts.

Seems Rupes has recognized that issue, and thus formulated special "Mille" Compounds and Polishes to give greater lubricity and longer work time when used with their forced rotation Mille.

Thus, I'm thinking that not only the Pad Size and Type play an influence, but also the Chemicals in use. That some products might be more prone to being grabby, drier, or dry faster in use, a shorter work time, have a tendency to make the user fight with the operations of Compounding and Polishing. Possible?

What about a Pad Conditioner also? Might one reap some improvements in Polishing ease with these products adding lubricity with virtually any Polish-Compound?

 

[JustJesus]

Good posts here.

Thanks Mike and Autogeek for the tips and the generosity.

Gloss Garage, thanks for the pics and sharing your experiences.

Myself, on the "old" 3401, I have used 4" Hydro Tech pads on the smaller backing plate, 5.5" pads, and the larger pads on the larger backing plate, as well . They all work pretty good. For the Hydro's, the thicker version seems fine.

Lately, I'm using the 5.5" SDO pads with the ~5" plate and have been enjoying that experience.

 

[PEAD19]

Good posts here.

Thanks Mike and Autogeek for the tips and the generosity.

Gloss Garage, thanks for the pics and sharing your experiences.

Myself, on the "old" 3401, I have used 4" Hydro Tech pads on the smaller backing plate, 5.5" pads, and the larger pads on the larger backing plate, as well . They all work pretty good. For the Hydro's, the thicker version seems fine.

Lately, I'm using the 5.5" SDO pads with the ~5" plate and have been enjoying that experience.

Thanks for the info. Good to hear you have used 5.5" pads enjoyed it. Havent pulled the trigger yet but I think I will be happy going from the HF da to the new 3401 "supa beast". I do have a couple 6.5" pads I could try on the 5" backing plate it comes with also.

 

[nickyc]

Hi Mike, so what pads from your experience would you recommend for the 5" backing pad ? I was going to order the LC Hybrid Force pads, but these dont seem to be that favourable for this machine in that size.
Sorry just seen your section regarding pads for the Griots, which confuses me a little as the LC Force Hybrids are the ones they recommend for the Flex Beast, So I'm a bit more confused now, I wont be getting the larger backing plate anytime soon and my first choice of pad would have been the 5.5's from Lake country and their recommended pad for the machine, so is their recommendation for pad a bit off for the machine in that size ?

 

[Gloss Garage Detail]

After reading these comments and observations, it made me think a little bit what these mentioned influences are, how they are lessened, and had some other thoughts.

Seems Rupes has recognized that issue, and thus formulated special "Mille" Compounds and Polishes to give greater lubricity and longer work time when used with their forced rotation Mille.

Thus, I'm thinking that not only the Pad Size and Type play an influence, but also the Chemicals in use. That some products might be more prone to being grabby, drier, or dry faster in use, a shorter work time, have a tendency to make the user fight with the operations of Compounding and Polishing. Possible?

What about a Pad Conditioner also? Might one reap some improvements in Polishing ease with these products adding lubricity with virtually any Polish-Compound?

I have to agree that the liquids definitely could have a something to do with it. I am a BIG fan of the Mille Coarse compound and I feel it works amazing on the 15/21mm long throw machine with wool/microfiber/etc. I will be sure to give it a go on the XCE.

I haven’t had much time with Mille Fine or Mille Ultra Fine but I own them as well and will have to play with them.

 

[Gloss Garage Detail]

I wish I could give you a 5 minute lesson in person. I would show you how to make this polisher dance on paint or plow through paint depending on when you need to do.

Don't be afraid to man-handle it. If you need to remove swirls and scratches, hold the pad flat to the surface and PRESS down on it! Make sure YOU control it. If you feel it pulling in any direction then you're not holding the pad flat to the surface. This tool is a true BEAST but YOU have to become the Master and show it who's the boss!

I will definitely be giving it the muscles soon!!

AND - if you ever see me teaching a class in your area - attend. You will learn more in my class than 10 years of trying to figure it all out on your own.

If you ever come to Atlanta, Chattanooga, etc - I will be there without a doubt! Would very much look forward to that.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

If you ever come to Atlanta, Chattanooga, etc - I will be there without a doubt! Would very much look forward to that.

Scroll through the 6 pages photo-documenting this class in Roswell, Georgia.

Pictures & Comments - Atlanta, Georgia Roadshow Class!



I'm working with the owner, Jim Thomas to lock down a date for a second class at his NEW facility.

 

[Gloss Garage Detail]

Gloss Garage, thanks for the pics and sharing your experiences.

Myself, on the "old" 3401, I have used 4" Hydro Tech pads on the smaller backing plate, 5.5" pads, and the larger pads on the larger backing plate, as well . They all work pretty good. For the Hydro's, the thicker version seems fine.

Lately, I'm using the 5.5" SDO pads with the ~5" plate and have been enjoying that experience.

I can say that on this XCE, the thinner pads (Mille, Griots) and even the HDO’s are very comfortable. The softer Force Hybrid pads (White, Black) in 5.5” might feel great, however I only tried the hard orange cutting foam and it was not good at all. I am yet to try the orange again but in 6.5” and with this new 6” plate, but maybe it will fare better.

 

[Gloss Garage Detail]

I'm working with the owner, Jim Thomas to lock down a date for a second class at his NEW facility.

Mike, I will be there without a doubt! Very excited for that. :buffing:

On another note...

I finally got a chance to try the 6" plate you (& Autogeek ) graciously sent, as well as the 6.5" Force Hybrid pads - surprise, surprise..it was MUCH better than with the 5" plate and 5.5" Force Hybrid pads. In fact, after using the 6" plate with the 6.5" Orange Force Hybrid, I immediately swapped back to the 5" plate and 5.5" Orange Force Hybrid with the same liquid (Mille Coarse) and buffed the same panel (my work van/test mule fender) to make sure I wasn't just being a wuss about it the last time I used it. It was MUCH better. The best non-scientific explanation I can give is that the thick and, like you mentioned, cylindrical shape of the 5.5" Force Hybrid pads are much more sensitive to angling of the pad or not keeping it exactly flat. With the larger footprint of the 6.5" pads, it is not quite as susceptible to that.

I believe that I still prefer thinner pads, but I will continue to use these. IMO, with the stock 5" plate, a medium (BnS Uro-Tec style) to thin (Griot's, Mille) style pad is a MUST. With the 6" plate and 6.5" pads, it is not near as touchy.

My entire pad collection is 5"-5.5" (except for my rotary wools & foams) due to how much I've used the Rupes machines - but now I fully intend on picking up a decent amount of 6"-6.5" pads.

Thanks for everything Mike! I look forward to the class!!

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

On another note...

I finally got a chance to try the 6" plate you (& Autogeek ) graciously sent, as well as the 6.5" Force Hybrid pads - surprise, surprise..it was MUCH better than with the 5" plate and 5.5" Force Hybrid pads.

And BOOM! There it is. I'm vindicated.

Larger backing plate and larger pad on either the gear-drive BEAST or Supa BEAST feels best. Feels right. Works best. Works right.

In fact, after using the 6" plate with the 6.5" Orange Force Hybrid, I immediately swapped back to the 5" plate and 5.5" Orange Force Hybrid with the same liquid (Mille Coarse) and buffed the same panel (my work van/test mule fender) to make sure I wasn't just being a wuss about it the last time I used it. I

t was MUCH better.

Good for you - it's always best when you use a tool and pad combo and figure it out for yourself versus JUST taking someone else's opinion.

The best non-scientific explanation I can give is that the thick and, like you mentioned, cylindrical shape of the 5.5" Force Hybrid pads are much more sensitive to angling of the pad or not keeping it exactly flat.

With the larger footprint of the 6.5" pads, it is not quite as susceptible to that.

That is a great explanation and i agree with it.

Now if the old 4" backing plates were available and the OLD STYLE TAPERED 5" Force Hybrid pads were still available - these would be a great combo for these tools because the face of the pad would squish outward instead of inward and then the "feel" would feel good when buffing.

Thanks for everything Mike! I look forward to the class!!

And since we started this thread a little thing happened on the way to the class called,

Coronaviruse


As I type today, Tuesday, April 14th 2020 - we're still in the middle of this virus pandemic and as such - all roadshow classes are cancelled until we break on through to the other side, to quote the Doors.