Which polisher should I get?

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Which polisher should I get?



Anytime I get questions via e-mail, a PM or a FB message I prefer to invest my typing time where

A: It's easier for me to share links, pictures and videos.

B: More people can read and thus benefit from the information. (no just one set of eyeballs)


So I get an e-mail asking,

Hello, it's been a few months since we emailed.

I have a serious question and I'll try to be as brief as possible. I want to offer a buffing service. I MUST increase my income and feel this is the way. I only own a couple of rotaries. I've buffed my own vehicles but honestly I haven't really done others because I'm scared of the liability. To easy to mess up a paint job if you get the least bit careless.

I have a friend that sells paint and body supplies. I recently demoed the Makita PO 5000C. Oh my goodness! I loved it! I can get it and the Presta PACE Paint Refinishing System for about $500.

I also see the reviews you've done on various random orbit and dual action polishers. Specifically Porter Cable, Flex, Rupes and something I'm looking at... the Adams Swirl Killer.

As you saw from my previous posts I live in a oppressed area over run with mainly soccer mom vehicle cleanups. However I do get requests for buffing. I would NOT call myself real experienced but I have done it a little bit.

In your opinion what should I get for the most user friendly and a little more of a good proof machine.

The Makita felt like I'd really have to TRY to mess up paint in order to do it.

I appreciate any feedback your willing to give me. Thanks!


​

Great questions,


I appreciate you taking the time to e-mail me questions but I prefer you join our forum and post them directly to the forum. This is where I answer questions, not via e-mail for the reasons I listed above.


As to your questions...

The Makita is safe and because it's gear-driven it will be faster than any free spinning orbital since the pad won't stall out.

I just recently used the new RUPES Mille gear-driven orbital polisher and I've been using the FLEX 3401 orbital polisher for years.

I would choose a gear-driven orbital over a free spinning orbital anytime SPEED is my primary concern. When best finish is my primary concern I would choose a long-stroke free spinning orbital polisher.

So the BIG PICTURE is there is NOT a single best tool. There's the best tool for the job.

Hope that helps Bob...

 

[Kamakaz1961]

Thank you for this post.

I have the Flex 3401 to do compound/polishing. It's my Thor's Hammer...LOL.

For small corrections, waxing or applying an LSP I use my PC7424XP. So far, this has worked best for me.

But IMO the WINNER in this is US! The detailer!

So many choices! Rupes, Flex, Boss, PC, Griot's Garage, Makita...etc.

Free Float or gear driven DA.

About 3 years ago, there weren't this many choices.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

So the BIG PICTURE is there is NOT a single best tool.

There's the best tool for the job.

But IMO the WINNER in this is US! The detailer!

So many choices! Rupes, Flex, Boss, PC, Griot's Garage, Makita...etc.

Free Float or gear driven DA.

About 3 years ago, there weren't this many choices.

I agree with you.

When people ask,


Which tool should I get?


I suggest to them the correct question is,


Which tool should I get first?

 

[VISITOR]

can't go wrong with the Flex out of all the gear driven/forced rotation polishers, you can use different size backing plates to accommodate different size pads (4"- 6.5")...

 

[miniSguy]

I agree with you.

When people ask,


Which tool should I get?


I suggest to them the correct question is,


Which tool should I get first?

Mike, I agree. I had the same question when I started out. I decided on the Flex 3401, then as I learned more and did more work ($$), I picked up a couple more, like the Porter Cable and the 3" Griot's. I also picked up the cordless Griot's last Christmas and am quite happy with that as well. They each have their niche.

Another thing Mike and others have helped me with, and should also be considered in the same question, is which PADS to start with. There are so many options out there! With Autogeek's help, I landed on a certain type and manufacturer. This was very helpful to me as I started out and learned more, and kinda saved me some $$. I have since expanded, but this was very helpful starting out.

Either way, you go, just pick one and get started. You will get a lot of helpful advice from the folks on this forum. And I also recommend some training, as it is the best way to try out different types of machines for yourself and see which one fits you the best. I have attended several of Mike's classes - well worth the investment!

 

[machz]

I agree with you.

When people ask,


Which tool should I get?


I suggest to them the correct question is,


Which tool should I get first?

Ok so I'll ask this , what tool should I get second.

I have had a porter cable for years and over the years it has served me well but I'm now looking to add another tool. I have a new black S5 and I was looking for a tool that will correct the paint easier. I only care for a few personal vehicles that are all well taken care of so speed isn't a determining factor for me. I am torn between gear and long throw as they both have + and - . So in the same situation what direction would you lean ?

Thank you

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Mike, I agree. I had the same question when I started out. I decided on the Flex 3401, then as I learned more and did more work ($$), I picked up a couple more, like the Porter Cable and the 3" Griot's. I also picked up the cordless Griot's last Christmas and am quite happy with that as well. They each have their niche.

That's a healthy arsenal.

I haven't used the Griot's cordless polisher for a while but it does work good for machine applying a finishing wax or sealant - and without the cord.

Another thing Mike and others have helped me with, and should also be considered in the same question, is which PADS to start with. There are so many options out there! With Autogeek's help, I landed on a certain type and manufacturer. This was very helpful to me as I started out and learned more, and kinda saved me some $$. I have since expanded, but this was very helpful starting out.

Pads are important. They are the second thing (in order), that come into contact with the paint, abrasive technology being the first thing. In order,

Abrasive technology
Pad
Tool
Person

One thing I try to do now days is include a picture of all the pads I use for a project in my write-up to show people how many pads are needed to do the job right.

Autogeek sells a LOT of buffer kits and in most cases they come with 3 pads, a cutting pad, a polishing pad and a waxing pad. And my theory is that most customers "think" this is what's needed to buff out a car because this is how many pads came in the kit.

Fact of the matter is - if Autogeek put in as many pads as a person needs to buff out a car correctly the price of the kit would scare some people away. So the pads included in the kit are simply "Starter Pads" to get a person started but the reality is, to buff out a neglected car the first time, for compounding a person really needs a minimum of 5-6 cutting pads, 3-4 polishing pads and 1 waxing pad. And these are minimums. My saying goes like this,

"More pads are better"

Or should it be,

"More pads is better"


In a perfect world, one pad per panel for correction work.

Either way, you go, just pick one and get started. You will get a lot of helpful advice from the folks on this forum.

Agree. This forum attracts high caliber people always willing to help.

And I also recommend some training, as it is the best way to try out different types of machines for yourself and see which one fits you the best.

I have attended several of Mike's classes - well worth the investment!

Thanks for the plug!

One thing for sure - after taking any of my classes you WILL know how to detail a car from start to finish and the correct order to do all the steps.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Ok so I'll ask this , what tool should I get second.

I have had a porter cable for years and over the years it has served me well but I'm now looking to add another tool.

I have a new black S5 and I was looking for a tool that will correct the paint easier.

I only care for a few personal vehicles that are all well taken care of so speed isn't a determining factor for me. I am torn between gear and long throw as they both have + and - . So in the same situation what direction would you lean ?

Thank you

Great question.

With the introduction of so many THIN pads the Porter Cable is a very capable tool. I know some guys will disagree as compared to tools like the Griot's Garage 6" Random Orbital Polisher it's a tick on the weaker side but still, with the right pads, great abrasive technology and good technique you can work miracles with the PC.


Because you already have a free spinning orbital polisher I'd recommend getting a gear-driven orbital polisher. You now have three choices,

1. FLEX 3401
2. RUPES Mille
3. Makita PO500C

Having used them all, if speed isn't a motivating factor then the RUPES and the Makita are smoother overall due to their smaller orbit stroke length as compared to the FLEX 3401.

RUPES and Makita = 5mm orbit stroke length

FLEX 3401 = 8mm orbit stroke length​

To those that have never used the above tools a 3mm difference may not seem to be a huge factor or a BIG DEAL - but it is and you'll know it when you use and compare all three tools.


The primary difference between the RUPES and the Makita gear-driven tools are the direction of pad backing plate rotation. The RUPES rotates the backing plate (and thus the pad), in a clockwise rotation and the Makita rotates the backing plate, (and thus the pad), in a counter clockwise rotation.

While this difference is not a big deal to me as I just adjust to the pull and push through a detail job, to many it is a big deal and from what I've read the clockwise rotation offered by RUPES is the winner with end-users as it mimics the traditional rotation of rotary buffer. The idea being is anyone with a rotary background is already more used-to or more familiar with the clockwise pull of a tool.


Another very strong benefit to RUPES credit is their gear-driven orbital polisher (the Mille), is designed as a COMPLETE SYSTEM - this system includes pads, compounds and polishes specifically engineered and formulated for the very specific motion of a gear-driven polisher.


Watch for my write-up of the new RUPES tools hopefully this week.

 

[machz]

Excellent, as always thank you for the information.

 

[remofire]

FINALLY.... I was the emailer in the OP above.

Long story short I've had a TON of issues getting logged in... thus the email.

I'm fairly tech savvvy .... certainly enough to handle forums but some kinda glitch was on my account. Even resetting my password didn't work. I was emailed new passwords and instantly they wouldn't work.....

ANYHOW..... I use my orbital polisher on my own stuff. I've never gotten into what I call real buffing for customers because I'm scared of the liability. My good friend and traveling salesmen/ auto paint consultant ( He owned his own body shop for years) called me one morning and asked me if I had time to let him demo "a game changer in paint correction " the Makita PO 5000C.

He said it had random orbit in both gear driven and forced rotation settings. So I did. He used it and the Presta PACE Paint Finishing System. The pads were far more dense and solid than any pads I'd ever felt or worked with before and it only took 2 chocolate chip size drops of product to work a 3' by 3' area. I fell in love with it.

I really want to offer buffing to up my income potential.

But all these terms about random orbital polishers..... I don't know what the mean.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

FINALLY.... I was the emailer in the OP above.

Long story short I've had a TON of issues getting logged in... thus the email.

I'm fairly tech savvvy .... certainly enough to handle forums but some kinda glitch was on my account. Even resetting my password didn't work. I was emailed new passwords and instantly they wouldn't work.....

Sorry to hear about your difficulty getting on the forum? Not sure what it could be?

I am glad you were persistent and finally are on. I can't count how many times I share an e-mail from someone on the forum, then answer their questions and then send them the link to my answers but NEVER hear back from them either via e-mail or on the forum.

My guess is whatever their car wax emergency was or is - it's NOT important enough to do as you did and that is to join the forum and interact with me and the rest of our community so in the BIG PICTURE - most of these people are simply time-wasters. Their okay with wasting my time but not their own. Sayonara baby...

ANYHOW..... I use my orbital polisher on my own stuff. I've never gotten into what I call real buffing for customers because I'm scared of the liability. My good friend and traveling salesmen/ auto paint consultant ( He owned his own body shop for years) called me one morning and asked me if I had time to let him demo "a game changer in paint correction " the Makita PO 5000C.

He said it had random orbit in both gear driven and forced rotation settings. So I did. He used it and the Presta PACE Paint Finishing System. The pads were far more dense and solid than any pads I'd ever felt or worked with before and it only took 2 chocolate chip size drops of product to work a 3' by 3' area. I fell in love with it.

I really want to offer buffing to up my income potential.

I apologize I just now found your reply to this thread I created for you. I see you now have 13 posts to this form. I'll check them out and make sure if I can help I do help.

But all these terms about random orbital polishers..... I don't know what the mean.

Just like any interest, craft or hobby on planet earth, detailing has it's own language.

That's one thing this forum is very good at and that is providing accurate and helpful information. We don't allow jerks on this forum so you don't ever had do deal with ego-driven experts. Just high caliber people.


And "yes" the Makita PO5000C gear-driven orbital polisher is a unique tool. As I write this, we currently offer three gear-driven orbital polishers from RUPES, Makita and FLEX and all three offer swirl free polishing, lots of power and the key thing most people want - NO PAD STALLING.


Here's my review for the Makita

Review: Makita PO5000C Orbital Polisher - Gear-driven and Free Spinning - Mike Phillips



Here's my review for the RUPES

Review: RUPES BIGFOOT MILLE LK 900E by Mike Phillips



Here's my review for the FLEX 3401 - actually I don't think I've ever written a "review" for the FLEX 3401 just how-to articles and a book...

How to use the Flex 3401 for Show Car Detailing

How to use a one-step cleaner/wax to maximize profits

Video: How to do a Test Spot using the Flex 3401

How To Use The Flex 3401

DVD - How To Use the Flex 3401 & PE14 Rotary Buffer

 

[RSW]

If it was me, I'd go with the Rupes Mille. It will get some work done and is safe enough. It also spins the same direction as a rotary, so, if you decide you want to go that direction you'll have some familiarity with the way a rotary feels and works.

I say this in spite of the fact that I own two Makita PO5000C machines. The Makita is faster, but it is counter productive in terms of learning to run the rotary - which I think everyone who details professionally should be able to do.

RSW