Why aggressive pads?

budman3

budman3

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I’m kind of baffled how aggressive people get with their pad selections. Using an LC green or yellow pad or Edge orange, green or yellow pads is like taking sandpaper to the car, IMO. I see no reason to go this aggressive on pads. I would much rather see someone bump up to a stronger polish verses going to a stronger pad.

Pads are going to be aggressive no matter what. Polishes, on the other hand, usually have diminishing abrasives which brake down over time. This means that the polish or compound starts off aggressive but over time it breaks down into a fine polish, usually leaving the finish without deep micro-marring. That is if you don’t use an aggressive pad…

A coarse pad is going to cut the paint at the same rate whether you are just starting to polish or finishing up. Most likely you are going to be cutting the paint so much that you’ll leave the dreaded micro-marring. So now you’ll have to use another aggressive polish to cut through your micro-marring. BUT, chances are, if you used a less aggressive pad to begin with, you wouldn’t need the second polishing stage which means you will be saving precious clear coat. This may not be the case for everyone, but I find that if I can’t polish out some swirls with an aggressive polish and a polishing pad, that it is safer to live with them verses risking going to strong. Or simply go over the vehicle once again with the same product / pad combo...

Every car and situation is different though, but if you have to use a cutting pad on your vehicles a few times a year, then you may want to work on your washing techniques. This is just some food for thought that I have generated after a steady month of reading on this site.

The old verbiage of “use the least aggressive polish first” should be something like “use the least aggressive polish and pad first, if that doesn’t work, use a stronger polish, if that doesn’t work, do another pass with the same polish, if that doesn’t work, bump back on the polish and go to a stronger pad, and so on.” That quote is from me :).

Sorry this has gotten so long, maybe it is just me but I feel that using a stronger polish isn’t as detrimental as using a stronger pad. If a polish isn’t removing what you want, you may want to look into a different polish vs. using a cutting pad.
 
budman3 said:
I’m kind of baffled how aggressive people get with their pad selections. Using an LC green or yellow pad or Edge orange, green or yellow pads is like taking sandpaper to the car, IMO. I see no reason to go this aggressive on pads. I would much rather see someone bump up to a stronger polish verses going to a stronger pad.

Pads are going to be aggressive no matter what. Polishes, on the other hand, usually have diminishing abrasives which brake down over time. This means that the polish or compound starts off aggressive but over time it breaks down into a fine polish, usually leaving the finish without deep micro-marring. That is if you don’t use an aggressive pad…

A coarse pad is going to cut the paint at the same rate whether you are just starting to polish or finishing up. Most likely you are going to be cutting the paint so much that you’ll leave the dreaded micro-marring. So now you’ll have to use another aggressive polish to cut through your micro-marring. BUT, chances are, if you used a less aggressive pad to begin with, you wouldn’t need the second polishing stage which means you will be saving precious clear coat. This may not be the case for everyone, but I find that if I can’t polish out some swirls with an aggressive polish and a polishing pad, that it is safer to live with them verses risking going to strong. Or simply go over the vehicle once again with the same product / pad combo...

Every car and situation is different though, but if you have to use a cutting pad on your vehicles a few times a year, then you may want to work on your washing techniques. This is just some food for thought that I have generated after a steady month of reading on this site.

The old verbiage of “use the least aggressive polish first” should be something like “use the least aggressive polish and pad first, if that doesn’t work, use a stronger polish, if that doesn’t work, do another pass with the same polish, if that doesn’t work, bump back on the polish and go to a stronger pad, and so on.” That quote is from me :).

Sorry this has gotten so long, maybe it is just me but I feel that using a stronger polish isn’t as detrimental as using a stronger pad. If a polish isn’t removing what you want, you may want to look into a different polish vs. using a cutting pad.
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what i cant understand is why does xmt light swirl removel recommend starting with an orange pad then white? orange is so aggressive . isnt it??
 
budman3 said:
I’m kind of baffled how aggressive people get with their pad selections. Using an LC green or yellow pad or Edge orange, green or yellow pads is like taking sandpaper to the car, IMO. I see no reason to go this aggressive on pads. I would much rather see someone bump up to a stronger polish verses going to a stronger pad.

Pads are going to be aggressive no matter what. Polishes, on the other hand, usually have diminishing abrasives which brake down over time. This means that the polish or compound starts off aggressive but over time it breaks down into a fine polish, usually leaving the finish without deep micro-marring. That is if you don’t use an aggressive pad…

A coarse pad is going to cut the paint at the same rate whether you are just starting to polish or finishing up. Most likely you are going to be cutting the paint so much that you’ll leave the dreaded micro-marring. So now you’ll have to use another aggressive polish to cut through your micro-marring. BUT, chances are, if you used a less aggressive pad to begin with, you wouldn’t need the second polishing stage which means you will be saving precious clear coat. This may not be the case for everyone, but I find that if I can’t polish out some swirls with an aggressive polish and a polishing pad, that it is safer to live with them verses risking going to strong. Or simply go over the vehicle once again with the same product / pad combo...

Every car and situation is different though, but if you have to use a cutting pad on your vehicles a few times a year, then you may want to work on your washing techniques. This is just some food for thought that I have generated after a steady month of reading on this site.

The old verbiage of “use the least aggressive polish first” should be something like “use the least aggressive polish and pad first, if that doesn’t work, use a stronger polish, if that doesn’t work, do another pass with the same polish, if that doesn’t work, bump back on the polish and go to a stronger pad, and so on.” That quote is from me :).

Sorry this has gotten so long, maybe it is just me but I feel that using a stronger polish isn’t as detrimental as using a stronger pad. If a polish isn’t removing what you want, you may want to look into a different polish vs. using a cutting pad.
Click to expand...

NICE WRITE UP....Ive often thought the same. i did consider one pad and different grades of polish.....

Foamed Wool 6.5 inch Polishing/Buffing Pads
 
trhland said:
what i cant understand is why does xmt light swirl removel recommend starting with an orange pad then white? orange is so aggressive . isnt it??
Click to expand...

I agree. Just remember that every manufacturer has different colored pads. The only time I've used an orange LC pad (light cut) is with PwS and it left micromarring, or with OHC on my rotary on very, very swirled paint or on sanded surfaces. If the product isn't strong enough for the job, switch to another polish, not the pad, of course this is all of my opinion though...
 
budman3 said:
I agree. Just remember that every manufacturer has different colored pads. The only time I've used an orange LC pad (light cut) is with PwS and it left micromarring, or with OHC on my rotary on very, very swirled paint or on sanded surfaces. If the product isn't strong enough for the job, switch to another polish, not the pad, of course this is all of my opinion though...
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i only use optimum . and they only make one polish or compound . seems like compound would be in the worst case situation. what ive been useing mostly is a green foam pad and optimums polish. not sure what brand the foam pad is got it with the p/c it like a medium pad but softer then l/c orange pad. been pretty happy with results
 
the reason for the more agressive pads is the pore size of the pads allow the polish to work longer...a finer pore pad will diminish aggressive polishes much quicker than a pad with open pores....tighter pores dont allow the abrassive to tumble around but instead presses them up against the paint and diminishes them as they rotate around...so the agressive correction properties of the polish are quickly worked away...

the trade off is the scratches it leaves behind beacause the pores are not as close to each other.... so the marks they leave behind, which we refer to as micromarring, are not as close to each other as say a blue pad that has a very tight and dense pore distribution...even finishing pads scratch the surface but at such a microscopic level the human eye doesnt really pick it up...
 
orngez said:
the reason for the more agressive pads is the pore size of the pads allow the polish to work longer...a finer pore pad will diminish aggressive polishes much quicker than a pad with open pores....tighter pores dont allow the abrassive to tumble around but instead presses them up against the paint and diminishes them as they rotate around...so the agressive correction properties of the polish are quickly worked away...

the trade off is the scratches it leaves behind beacause the pores are not as close to each other.... so the marks they leave behind, which we refer to as micromarring, are not as close to each other as say a blue pad that has a very tight and dense pore distribution...even finishing pads scratch the surface but at such a microscopic level the human eye doesnt really pick it up...
Click to expand...

The LC CCS pads are supposed to be closed cell pads and people are having longer work in times? So I don't think the work in time has anything to do with pore size. If anything the open pores would dry out a product making it not work as long. I agree that everything that touches paint is abrasive but the extent of this is very different. A cutting pad will cut the clear and leave micromarring which can be difficult to remove. So why bother with the cutting pad when a different pad and polish combo can get better results without the micromarring?

Another quote I forgot to mention "Let the product do the work" ...
 
budman3 said:
The LC CCS pads are supposed to be closed cell pads and people are having longer work in times? So I don't think the work in time has anything to do with pore size. If anything the open pores would dry out a product making it not work as long. I agree that everything that touches paint is abrasive but the extent of this is very different. A cutting pad will cut the clear and leave micromarring which can be difficult to remove. So why bother with the cutting pad when a different pad and polish combo can get better results without the micromarring?

Another quote I forgot to mention "Let the product do the work" ...
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you are taking the term closed cell a little wrong budman....the closed cell structure allows for the ccs pads to have larger pores in them...the collapsed or closed cell structure is in reference to the swiss cheese like structure of the ccs pads...the closed cells are not on the polishing surface but are in the "holes" of the swiss cheese makeup of the pad...so the foam that is in contact with polishing the paint is open cell foam and the holes that allow th polish to store and allow the polish to work without pressure from the pad are the closed holes that are recessed into the pad....those closed cell structures act like huge pores which allow the polish to do the work rather than the pad...and it stores polish in them rather than absorbing it.....so the ccs big pore structure is allowing the polish to do the work :)...so pore size does have something to do with polishing...you will not get the most out of an aggresive polish without the bigger pore size...some defect need an agressive polish to wear it down to a level a finer polish can correct
 
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Well I haven't used them and just based it off of the info that I've recieved here.. thanks for clearing the CCS part up.
 
Some cars need stronger cut pads, an Edge blue with OC wouldn't do squat to one of our cars with hard clear. OC and yellow Edge cutting pad got maybe half the swirls out. My trucks is fairly easy to correct, yellow or green Edge pad and OC and I can get it to finish down like a polish with no marring, it's all in the technique.
 
scottgt said:
im gonna do a test wen i get my new pads :)
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Me too... now all I have to do is find the right canidate for a car...
 
haha...i got my other door to do an it will be great...
 
The short answer is that people want to get instant gratification. Aggressive pads with an aggressive polish will get the scratches out. Level it off with an SSR1 on a white pad or something to that effect and you're done.
 
I use the pad/polish combo based on the paint condition. I tend not to change pads with a single product, I will change to a lesser cut or polish along with the pad change.
 
Meh, I've done lots of cars where a LC white and OC or SSR 2.5, etc didn't do enough. The aggressive pads are made for, well, aggressive defect removal, and surprise, that's what I use them for. This isn't rocket science fellas.
 
I'd rather reach for a medium polish with a wool pad instead of a heavy polish on a cutting foam pad any day of the week. I personally think that wool is for removing the defect and foam is to create depth. Defects *can* be worked out with foam, but I prefer the easier and faster route with wool.
 
David Fermani said:
I'd rather reach for a medium polish with a wool pad instead of a heavy polish on a cutting foam pad any day of the week. I personally think that wool is for removing the defect and foam is to create depth. Defects *can* be worked out with foam, but I prefer the easier and faster route with wool.
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i prefer to go the foam route...yes wool does an amazing job of removing defects...but it also removes a ton of clear in the process...just for example (the numbers are just hypothetically speaking)....if you had a scratch that was 5 microns deep...foam can finesse the paint enough so that it removes 5-7 microns...wool wood remove 8-10 microns in the same process..in both scenarios the defect is removed but one was overkill...not the case in every situation but i prefer the minimalist route :p ...basically the minimun clear coat a foam pad can remove is less than the wool pad...and if the foam pad is enough to remove the defect why risk removing more?
 
orngez said:
i prefer to go the foam route...yes wool does an amazing job of removing defects...but it also removes a ton of clear in the process...just for example (the numbers are just hypothetically speaking)....if you had a scratch that was 5 microns deep...foam can finesse the paint enough so that it removes 5-7 microns...wool wood remove 8-10 microns in the same process..in both scenarios the defect is removed but one was overkill...not the case in every situation but i prefer the minimalist route :p ...basically the minimun clear coat a foam pad can remove is less than the wool pad...and if the foam pad is enough to remove the defect why risk removing more?
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I don't think this is accurate. Wool will cut cleaner, faster and cooler where foam is the opposite. It heats the paint up more, melting more of the surface around it while you remove the scratch. The best way to remove a scratch and trying to preserve paint at the same time is to just wet sand the scratched area. That way, removing too much paint isn't a concern. Each pad has it's place, but for cutting, wool (I think) is the most effective pad unless there's a special issue with paint harness/softness. I try to avoid using wool on black Mercedes unless I'm removing wet sand scratches(3000 grit and coarser). If I was removing 4000 grit sand scratches on that car, I'd use a cutting foam (yellow EDGE). For a black Corvette, I'd have no problem using a wool for heavy defect removal. Everyone has their own procedures I guess.
 
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