Zaino vs UPGP review - my plan...

[BookemDano]

I've been using Zaino products for several years and think highly of most of them. That said, time and tides wait for no man. Eight years ago when I got more involved with detailing, Zaino sealants were the best products I could find. But now...

I'm not so sure. There have been many product improvements since 2004. To be sure, there is still the same (or more) "marketing mendacity" to wade through. But there are indications that some products may offer the same or better looks than Zaino, have good durability (6 months or longer), and be easier to apply. Ultima Paint Guard Plus, paint sealant, liquid wax, paint sealer, car wax sealant (UPGP) is one of those.

So I'm going to attempt a comparison review of a Zaino protocol vs a Ultima protocol. By protocol, I mean a sealant and QD process using Zaino and Ultima products without mixing the two. The goal is to measure the two sets of products over several months using my criteria - looks, durability, and ease of application.

A lot of people will automatically say that Zaino is harder to apply and may not be as good looking, but it lasts a long time. OTOH, I don't think Zaino is that difficult to apply and it looks fine to me. (Z5 x 2 + Z2 x 1 on a gray Audi). On the third hand, if UPGP looks better, lasts several months, and is VERY fast and easy to apply, then applying another coat once in a while might make it the better choice.

The only way for me to decide is to do a comparison. And publish the results if people are interested. Here's my intended process:

1. Wash car with Dawn and clay.

2. Polish with Menzerna polishes using my new Flex 3401 and old PC.

3. Remove polish residue with CarPro Eraser: CarPro Eraser Intense Oil & Polish Cleanser, IPA, paint cleaner, polish remover, wax remover to ensure a completely clean surface.

4. Apply Zaino (Z5 x 2 + Z2 x 1) on 1/2 of the hood and UPGP x 3 to the other 1/2 of the hood.

5. Apply UPGP x 2 to the rest of the car.

6. For QD, use Z6 and Z8 QD on the Zaino sealant and UWWP (Ultima Waterless Wash Plus+ Concentrate, concentrated waterless auto wash, waterless car wash) on the UPGP sealant.

7. Regular washes with Chemical Guys Maxi Suds II, foam cannon, and pressure washer.

The obvious question is why use UPGP on the rest of the car? I could use Zaino, but that would be a lot of work, especially if I ultimately decide to go with UPGP. And letting the car go "naked" for several months is a non-starter.

So... Is anyone interested in this review? Enough for me to publish it here?

Also, any feedback about my process? Suggested changes?

Regards,

Dan.

 

[Rsurfer]

I would be curious about this comparison. Are you planing to do number 4 in one day? In regards to number 6 using Z6 and Z8. First of all Z8 is not a QD, but a spray sealant. Ultima Waterless Wash Plus is a waterless wash and it would be unfair to use a waterless wash against a sealant to compare durability.

 

[FUNX650]

-I don't think Zaino is that difficult to apply and it looks fine to me.

-I could use Zaino, but that would be a lot of work

-feedback
Dan.

Hi Dan...

If you decide to perform this 'review'...I would be one to subscribe to your 'review thread' with one caveat:

-I need clarification of, and distinction between, the above two statements of yours.

Thanks.



Bob

 

[megacabcummins]

I would subscribe, I use Zaino as well... But really enjoy Dodo Juice waxes... Dan if you could I'd like to see how it holds up on the lower door panels behind the front tires, that's where my paint just takes an absolute beating

Rsurfer yea you can easily do that in one day with the ZFX accelerator, when I first did my truck I washed with Dawn Ultra, clayed, washed with Z-7, two coats of Z-5 and then two coats of Z-2, and then a final coat of Z-6. And on my truck it took so long to get back around to where I started I just started buffing right away, but it was over 8 hours to do the whole process.... Now that I have a DA it wouldn't take as long, plus there are some other products I would like to try as well and it just just hard to get away from the look of Carnuba.

 

[CEE DOG]

I too would be interested but Ron is right. You can only use the sealants. Using a booster for one side and a WW on the other is not a fair test.

Also, what wash will you use?

 

[Klasse Act]

I'm subscribing but I don't understand using both Z2 and Z5, from my understanding one is for light colored cars and the other for darker ones. When I spoke to someone at Zaino directly he told me to just get the Z-5 pro because its better, so I did.

Now as far as not doing the entire half of the car with Zaino because it would be too much work, well, I don't understand that one, Zaino is VERY easy to use. The VFX is a must obviously if your doing multiple layers in one day, I assume your using this in the mix when applying the Zaino?

 

[BookemDano]

Re: Zaino vs UPGP review - the plot thickens...

as they say in the mystery novels.

First, thanks for all the feedback.

Regarding using a Z6 and Z8, I agree that the Z8 is a sealant. But the purpose of the review is to compare an entire protocol - how you would use a set of products as part of your normal process.

It's like using Z2 or Z5 without using ZFX (I always use ZFX). Yes, you can apply the sealants without ZFX, but it's a waste of time and ZFX is part of the normal application process (IMO). Reviewing Zaino sealants without ZFX and then saying that it take hours for it to dry, would be completely unfair and unreasonable. Likewise, reviewing the sealant (Z2/Z5) and not using the normal associated products (Z6/Z8) as part of my maintenance protocol would be a misrepresentation of the overall process.

I ordered the UWWP product to go with UPGP as a QD because Corey (CeeDog) mentioned that in one of his reviews (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/product-reviews/29647-review-ultima-waterless-wash-plus.html). So if UWWP can NOT be used with UPGP as good QD, what is the correct Ultima product to order?

Regarding using Z2 + Z5, Z5 has some slight fillers which work well on a dark car (like my gray Audi). Z2 on top adds some extra shine. If you have a dark car and only want to use ONE product, then Z5 is the better choice. But I prefer both.

Regarding the difficulty of applying Z2 or Z5, I appreciate you folks pinging me on this...

To be clear, I do NOT think it's difficult to apply. I just use an MF applicator pad and apply by hand. It looks like it's a bit more difficult than UPGP because you have to buff off the haze with an MF towel. I don't consider that much effort, but to be fair to UPGP, it is an extra step.

The big issue for me is the 8 hour wait between applications of Z2/Z5. Or so I thought...

Since 2004, I've been waiting 8 hours between applications because I understood that this was required. Either something has changed since then or I misunderstood the application rules. Based on your comments, I decided to carefully read the Zaino application instructions this morning. Now I feel like an idiot. I can immediately apply additional coats of Z2/Z5 immediately!!! :xyxthumbs:

This changes a lot. First, I no longer see the Zaino sealant protocol as much more time-consuming or difficult than UPGP. Second, the purpose of the test is now focused on durability and looks. Third and most importantly, I can choose to use Zaino or UPGP to protect the rest of the car during the test. Not a big effort level either way.

I have to run. Given the new info, do you have any additional suggestions about a UPGP QD or changes to make the comparison better?

Thanks,

Dan.

 

[megacabcummins]

The way it was explained to me was the Z-5 hides small swirls and scratches, the Z-2 will not.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Re: Zaino vs UPGP review - the plot thickens...

Given the new info, do you have any additional suggestions about a UPGP QD or changes to make the comparison better?

I guess I'm a little puzzled, you are testing a conventional (although catalyzed with ZFX) sealant against a WOWA sealant. Zaino has their own WOWA sealant, Z-CS, which happens to be the first WOWA brought to market. I think even Sal says the Z-CS won't last as long as ZFX'd Z2 or Z5, so I'm not sure what the point of all this is, but I'm a little slow on the uptake, so don't mind me.

Oh, and when you said a lot has changed in 8 years, not too much has changed in Zaino-land, last time I looked they hadn't had an entry on their "What's New" page for over 5 years.

 

[BookemDano]

The way it was explained to me was the Z-5 hides small swirls and scratches, the Z-2 will not.

I think that Z5 has a small amount of fillers, buy that's about it. I believe in prepping well before applying LSP.

 

[BookemDano]

Re: Zaino vs UPGP review - the plot thickens...

I guess I'm a little puzzled, you are testing a conventional (although catalyzed with ZFX) sealant against a WOWA sealant. Zaino has their own WOWA sealant, Z-CS, which happens to be the first WOWA brought to market. I think even Sal says the Z-CS won't last as long as ZFX'd Z2 or Z5, so I'm not sure what the point of all this is, but I'm a little slow on the uptake, so don't mind me.

Oh, and when you said a lot has changed in 8 years, not too much has changed in Zaino-land, last time I looked they hadn't had an entry on their "What's New" page for over 5 years.

Good points.

Originally I was looking for something that took less time to apply than Zaino thinking that Zaino had a 8 hour wait time between applications. Now it looks like there's no wait time. So application effort between Zaino and UPGP sealants is about the same.

I guess guess the key issue now is looks. A lot of people seem to think that UPGP gives a great look. I haven't tried ZCS, but reviewers seem to think it doesn't look as good as Z5/Z2. I guess I'll have to limit my review to comparing the Z5/Z2 look to UPGP.

About the Zaino new products, I agree - they need to step up to the plate. And their website especially peeves me...

They have the standard spam about shiniest, deepest, blah, blah... that everyone else has. The only mention of no wait time before next application is in step 8 of the ZXF instructions. That's a major benefit for their sealants and it's buried! Stupid marketing, IMO.

This might be the most boring review in the history of AG.

Dan.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Re: Zaino vs UPGP review - the plot thickens...

So application effort between Zaino and UPGP sealants is about the same.

Yeah, but it's not...you're still comparing a wipe-on, wait-to-haze, wipe-off sealant vs. a WOWA (wipe-on-walk-away) sealant. No having to go back later to wipe it off, no spots you missed that you notice the next day, etc.

 

[BookemDano]

Re: Zaino vs UPGP review - the plot thickens...

Yeah, but it's not...you're still comparing a wipe-on, wait-to-haze, wipe-off sealant vs. a WOWA (wipe-on-walk-away) sealant. No having to go back later to wipe it off, no spots you missed that you notice the next day, etc.

Not really... With UPGP, I believe you need to wait at least 45 minutes before applying the next coat. With Zaino, by the time you get the car finished, you can start removing the sealant where you started. It requires a bit more effort, but I think the overall time to apply 2-3 coats should be about the same. In any case, I'll get at least some sense of the differences in a few days.

Just curious... Have you had experience with both product lines? What were your impressions of each?

Regards,

Dan.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Re: Zaino vs UPGP review - the plot thickens...

Just curious... Have you had experience with both product lines? What were your impressions of each?

I have Zaino, including Z-CS but I don't have any Ultima (other than WW+). I do have Opti-Seal. I think the WOWA's are really different animals, I don't find them to be as slick as the Zaino, and I only do one layer of WOWA at a time, where if I'm mixing ZFX I usually try to do 3 layers as you mention. The new version of Opti-Seal is supposed to be slicker, but it'll be years before I buy any of it.

I haven't really been able to get anything to bead like Zaino, which is good and bad.

 

[BookemDano]

Re: Zaino vs UPGP review - the plot thickens...

I have Zaino, including Z-CS but I don't have any Ultima (other than WW+). I do have Opti-Seal. I think the WOWA's are really different animals, I don't find them to be as slick as the Zaino, and I only do one layer of WOWA at a time, where if I'm mixing ZFX I usually try to do 3 layers as you mention. The new version of Opti-Seal is supposed to be slicker, but it'll be years before I buy any of it.

I haven't really been able to get anything to bead like Zaino, which is good and bad.

Good feedback. Thanks. I'll record some side by side shots with spritzed water and maybe a video of how well they shed water. And see if any water spots occur.

Dan.

 

[Klasse Act]

I've been using Zaino since last summer and maybe I too am missing something but when I apply Z-5 pro w/ZFX I apply it to a section and then remove right away, I've never let it sit on the car for a period of time, have I been doing something wrong? I thought you just applied it and wiped it off right away?

This thread has made me think to try an experiment of my own using Zaino Z-5 pro w/ZFX x's 2 vs. Black Fire wet diamond x's 2 (although I've gotta wait 8 hrs for the 2nd coat of that). Now I'd be doing this on my g/f's Mazda 6, a car that doesn't get as much attention as my car and is washed about once a week and is outside 24/7 like my car.

Glad I found and subscribed to this thread, let the info continue!

 

[BookemDano]

I've been using Zaino since last summer and maybe I too am missing something but when I apply Z-5 pro w/ZFX I apply it to a section and then remove right away, I've never let it sit on the car for a period of time, have I been doing something wrong? I thought you just applied it and wiped it off right away?

This thread has made me think to try an experiment of my own using Zaino Z-5 pro w/ZFX x's 2 vs. Black Fire wet diamond x's 2 (although I've gotta wait 8 hrs for the 2nd coat of that). Now I'd be doing this on my g/f's Mazda 6, a car that doesn't get as much attention as my car and is washed about once a week and is outside 24/7 like my car.

Glad I found and subscribed to this thread, let the info continue!

No, you haven't missed something. I have. After Zaino hazes over and is removed, you can walk away or reapply another coat. But I just learned that yesterday after using it for 8 years. That info is buried in their application notes. (They have good products, but a mediocre web site.)

Also, in fairness to UPGP, I'm using Z6 only as a QD on the Zaino side of the test panel - no Z8.

Regards,

Dan.

p.s. I be very happy if AG sold Zaino products so that I could order everything from one vendor. But they don't. Oh well.

 

[Klasse Act]

As far as Zaino hazing over, well, you can't really see it do that, it goes on so thin as it is. I just apply it one section at a time and then remove it, that's it. When using Zaino I always apply atleast 2 coats and that's what's so great about the ZFX, what did people do before that stuff......oh yeah, wait a half a day!

I wonder if ZFX would work with Black Fire?

 

[davidc]

I have been using Zaino since 1999. Maybe the info was better back in those times but I thought it was well known that you started at one end with ZFX charged product and when you worked your way around the vehicle it is usually time to wipe the haze off and start all over again if you wish more than one coat. This is dependent on environmental issues such as humidity that could slow down the cure time. A swipe with the finger will tell you if it is ready. If it smears it's still wet. The ZCS clear seal is great also, wipe on and walk away.

Dave

 

[Klasse Act]

So Dan, when does the experiment start?

I guess I need to leave Zaino on, applying it to the entire car and once done, then and only then remove it and apply another coat afterwards. Its so easy to remove anyways, so its not like trying to remove Klasse sealant glaze when its left on, that's VERY hard to remove when left on, crazy!

Looking forward to seeing the results and input along the way, i.e. beading, ease of washing, shine, etc:xyxthumbs: