Gimmie your two cents.

[Silly Rabbit]

Esoteric gets a pass from me for Budget Plan 1. One of the nicest persons I’ve never met. I trust his opinions about detailing.

If he was willing to leave a long standing job to go work for them and been there 1-2 years I gotta assume there good guys… I like there content as much as anyone else out there.


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That right there. Budget is the most honest, standup guy you could ask to interact with. Read a ton of his words all over detail forums, his posts on the forums, chatted with him and talked to him on the phone. He is the reason I headed to visit Esoteric when I was down in Ohio, woulda never thought of it if not for talked to him. Then when I got there and met Todd I found such a similar personality. I think the shop/business is so successfull because there are alot of like minded personalities working there. Wheather a Lambo owner or Chevy Cruz or Civic owner walks in, everyone is treated equally with respect and like a friend.

 

[SNP209]

Says the guy who shops at Obsessed….

Same has been said but ALOT more about Matt@Obsessed.

Matt seems like he could be Todd’s spoiled illegitimate son…

I still give him the benefit of the doubt. I didn’t at all like what he said and did with the Apex gen 1.

But I don’t black ball him tho….

I was not a fan of Todd to begin with but heard a lot of good things about Eaoteric

Then as mentioned BudgetPlan1 went to work there and he is a generous, gracious, helpful guy. One of the hood ones not here to often anymore.

I couldn’t see him no matter the situation working anyone douchey.


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Just don't ask the guy about utilizing the multiple mitt method during the wash process haha.

I commented on one of esoteric's yt videos that there is less of a chance of introducing marring through using multiple wash media rather than just a single mitt.

He then stated he doesn't base his techniques on theory but he goes off years of practice. After that I pointed out that the grit guard was invented solely because people were marring their paint with the 2BM and that even with the grit guard the wash media could still become contaminated when dunking your mitt into the rinse bucket and back into your clean bucket.

Then he obviously became irked and said that using multiple wash mitts is a crutch and it's simply not a process that 99.9% of car washers (his words not mine) are remotely interested in doing. I replied that if 99.9% of car washers are not remotely interested in using multiple mitts, then the 0.1% that do would be considered esoteric and the 99.9% that don't would be considered exoteric. (implying that he just contradicted himself and his brand/company)

It's cool that he is super approachable in person, but then why have a different persona when you're behind a keyboard? At least with Matt from Obsessed Garage you know that his personality would be the same whether in person or behind a computer.

If there was one person that stands out above the rest when it comes to personalities in the detailing industry it would be Mike Phillips and it's not even close in my eyes. He talks the talk and walks the walk.

 

[DFB]

It's cool that he is super approachable in person, but then why have a different persona when you're behind a keyboard? At least with Matt from Obsessed Garage you know that his personality would be the same whether in person or behind a computer.

If there was one person that stands out above the rest when it comes to personalities in the detailing industry it would be Mike Phillips and it's not even close in my eyes. He talks the talk and walks the walk.

That was my thinking too. I know Matt rubs people the wrong way, even I've been offended by a few key points of view, but at least you know what you are getting. Is that good or bad, I'm not sure.

My comments earlier were based on actions that apparently seem out of character for TCR going by what others have been saying. One would hope that is the case.

 

[Sleper]

If its only dusty i would use a California duster to remove the dust and then use a microsoft towel with come detailing spary to remove any remaining dust or bug spatter. good luck my 0.02$

 

[Bill D]

As most of you know, I use multiple mitts exclusively when I need a contact wash. It’s not just theory and it’s not a “crutch’. It helps *me* prevent marring It works for me. The proof is in the pudding


Don’t let anyone else try to poo-poo something that works for you. When you find something that works for you, keep at it.

 

[chilly]

Just don't ask the guy about utilizing the multiple mitt method during the wash process haha.

I commented on one of esoteric's yt videos that there is less of a chance of introducing marring through using multiple wash media rather than just a single mitt.

He then stated he doesn't base his techniques on theory but he goes off years of practice. After that I pointed out that the grit guard was invented solely because people were marring their paint with the 2BM and that even with the grit guard the wash media could still become contaminated when dunking your mitt into the rinse bucket and back into your clean bucket.

Then he obviously became irked and said that using multiple wash mitts is a crutch and it's simply not a process that 99.9% of car washers (his words not mine) are remotely interested in doing. I replied that if 99.9% of car washers are not remotely interested in using multiple mitts, then the 0.1% that do would be considered esoteric and the 99.9% that don't would be considered exoteric. (implying that he just contradicted himself and his brand/company)

It's cool that he is super approachable in person, but then why have a different persona when you're behind a keyboard? At least with Matt from Obsessed Garage you know that his personality would be the same whether in person or behind a computer.

If there was one person that stands out above the rest when it comes to personalities in the detailing industry it would be Mike Phillips and it's not even close in my eyes. He talks the talk and walks the walk.

I remember when you posted this before and I thought long and hard about it

Like others on here I use however many mitts or plush towels it takes to clean a vehicle without having to reintroduce the wash media back into the soap or RW bucket

That equals ZERO percent chance of adding extra grit to the washing equation

Calling it a CRUTCH just flys in the face of logic

I have to wonder if a time equals profit based business like Esoteric just doesn't want to take the extra few seconds to toss a mitt and grab a clean one (if it even does take longer) or if possibly they don't want to have to purchase, launder, dry, store, etc several hundred mitts to deal with say a dozen cars a day

I was also thinking if you are going to be correcting paint anyway maybe you aren't worried about the few new swirls a single mitt might add

But what about maintenance washes

I won't ever understand his logic and simply saying 99.9% of car people wouldn't want to do it is using a crutch in a logic argument

 

[Eldorado2k]

I have to wonder if a time equals profit based business like Esoteric just doesn't want to take the extra few seconds to toss a mitt and grab a clean one (if it even does take longer) or if possibly they don't want to have to purchase, launder, dry, store, etc several hundred mitts to deal with say a dozen cars a day

What if one of his employees mentioned the idea to him, but instead of giving the new guy some credit for teaching an old dog a new trick he decided to be a prick and force the new guy to do it the hard way, the real way, the way he always had to do it therefore nobody, especially not some young buck is going to have things any easier… You get 1 mitt, use it. It’s called work!
Because I’m the boss and I said so.

I dunno, kinda seems plausible. Lol.
I mean I wouldn’t do that, but there’s people who are like that.

 

[chilly]

What if one of his employees mentioned the idea to him, but instead of giving the new guy some credit for teaching an old dog a new trick he decided to be a prick and force the new guy to do it the hard way, the real way, the way he always had to do it therefore nobody, especially not some young buck is going to have things any easier… You get 1 mitt, use it. It’s called work! Because I’m the boss and I said so.

I dunno, kinda seems plausible. Lol.
I mean I wouldn’t do that, but there’s people who are like that.

In an industry that is DRIVEN by innovation, where "new and improved", whether true or not, equals sales and revenue I don't get the reluctance to adopt a better way

I am in no way comparing myself or my chops to Todd, I just KNOW from personal experience that my paint will be in better shape in the long run by using a multi mitt/multi towel method and anyone who tells me I am wrong better look for someone else to spend money at their business

I certainly don't want to offend anyone on the forum but that's my 2 cents worth

 

[Eldorado2k]

In an industry that is DRIVEN by innovation, where "new and improved", whether true or not, equals sales and revenue I don't get the reluctance to adopt a better way

I am in no way comparing myself or my chops to Todd, I just KNOW from personal experience that my paint will be in better shape in the long run by using a multi mitt/multi towel method and anyone who tells me I am wrong better look for someone else to spend money at their business

I certainly don't want to offend anyone on the forum but that's my 2 cents worth

I agree with you. At the same time I’m of the belief and fully understand that old dogs can be hard to change once they’re stuck in their ways.

I’ll tell you a story I don’t think I’ve ever told on this forum.
Do you know who Derek Bemiss is? He’s Barry Meguiars personal detailer. I worked for him for a brief time several years ago and right from the start I knew from him making it clear enough that he wanted things done in a systematic order and I knew right away without him having to tell me that I better respect that and I did.

That meant that my way of washing cars suddenly didn’t matter while I was “working” because I had the follow his way of doing things, his “system” was the only way even down to how we vacuumed a vehicle, which was done with only a crevice tool and a detail brush for the entire interior. [How that part of it didn’t drive me a little nuts I dunno, because I’m a big of a vacumm freak] lol.

I’ll tell you this though, just before our short time together came to an end I had been banking several ideas that I was going to respectfully bring to the table and at least mention to him to see if he’d be interested in trying.

-1 of them was using multiple mitts. [we had 2 mitts per person and that was the 1st time I had ever used a grit guard as intended. It does work]
-Another was the introduction of several new vacuum attachments.
-Another one [and this one was almost shocking] was the fact that he wasn’t familiar with D114 Rinseless Wash Concentrate yet. Like he had literally never used it before even though all products were sponsored by Meguiars for unlimited use. Lol.

I was like dude you have to try this stuff. It’s like APC Lite. I actually did bring a gallon I mixed up to work 1 day for us to test out.
He did use D115 which is the rinseless wash & wax concentrate. He liked to use that as the finishing touch on glass. Lots of interesting quirks that I’ll never forget.

There were so many interesting ideas I had in mind but out of respect and me being new I didn’t want to rock the boat and changed my ways for the betterment of all and stuck to the system. It was certainly different though. Lol.

Btw the reason it didn’t last was because it was simply too far away and I’m like the worst when it comes to being stuck in traffic for long drives everyday like that. I’ve never done it.

 

[chilly]

I agree with you. At the same time I’m of the belief and fully understand that old dogs can be hard to change once they’re stuck in their ways.

I’ll tell you a story I don’t think I’ve ever told on this forum.
Do you know who Derek Bemiss is? He’s Barry Meguiars personal detailer. I worked for him for a brief time several years ago and right from the start I knew from him making it clear enough that he wanted things done in a systematic order and I knew right away without him having to tell me that I better respect that and I did.

That meant that my way of washing cars suddenly didn’t matter while I was “working” because I had the follow his way of doing things, his “system” was the only way even down to how we vacuumed a vehicle, which was done with only a crevice tool and a detail brush for the entire interior. [How that part of it didn’t drive me a little nuts I dunno, because I’m a big of a vacumm freak] lol.

I’ll tell you this though, just before our short time together came to an end I had been banking several ideas that I was going to respectfully bring to the table and at least mention to him to see if he’d be interested in trying.

-1 of them was using multiple mitts. [we had 2 mitts per person and that was the 1st time I had ever used a grit guard as intended. It does work]
-Another was the introduction of several new vacuum attachments.
-Another one [and this one was almost shocking] was the fact that he wasn’t familiar with D114 Rinseless Wash Concentrate yet. Like he had literally never used it before even though all products were sponsored by Meguiars for unlimited use. Lol.

I was like dude you have to try this stuff. It’s like APC Lite. I actually did bring a gallon I mixed up to work 1 day for us to test out.
He did use D115 which is the rinseless wash & wax concentrate. He liked to use that as the finishing touch on glass. Lots of interesting quirks that I’ll never forget.

There were so many interesting ideas I had in mind but out of respect and me being new I didn’t want to rock the boat and changed my ways for the betterment of all and stuck to the system. It was certainly different though. Lol.

Btw the reason it didn’t last was because it was simply too far away and I’m like the worst when it comes to being stuck in traffic for long drives everyday like that. I’ve never done it.

I know exactly who Derek Bemiss is, I have seen him several times on AMMO NYC videos when Larry goes to the left coast and kicks it with Kevin Brown, Derek, and some of the other top tier detailers out there

One of the things I had noticed when they were depending on Derek's mobile detailing rig was just how sparse his setup is

He gets more good work done with less stuff and to me that is the hallmark of someone who has mastered a few basic products and just knows his stuff

I agree with the old dog, new tricks analogy, and not wasting time falling for fads and chasing unicorn products generally leaves more time to master a process

I guess it comes down to comfort levels and living up to the expectations of the person writing the pay check

It is awesome you had that gig and I am jealous, I can't imagine how much better I would be after hanging out with dudes like that

Commuting sucks

 

[Coatingsarecrack]

Just don't ask the guy about utilizing the multiple mitt method during the wash process haha.

I commented on one of esoteric's yt videos that there is less of a chance of introducing marring through using multiple wash media rather than just a single mitt.

He then stated he doesn't base his techniques on theory but he goes off years of practice. After that I pointed out that the grit guard was invented solely because people were marring their paint with the 2BM and that even with the grit guard the wash media could still become contaminated when dunking your mitt into the rinse bucket and back into your clean bucket. .

He’s kinda right. I personally have never seen a study done in a Laboratory controlling all variables showing that two bucket with grit gaurd was a more invasive. I believe that but that in fact is a belief/theory…. No scientific proof.

And being sale knowing that side wouldn’t it benefit him selling all his followers 10 $35 Wash mitt/sponge than 1? Everything in our hobby promotes more.

1bucket, then 2, then 3, wait everyone now has 3 buckets let’s sell these gaurds… everyone needs 3! Coat your car but be sure to top it…. Also use a drying aid. Wait now use 10 mitts instead of one. Wait you need a different coating for your wheels and trim…. Wait now you don’t.

A lot of that uses marketing in how it will benefit protecting our paint… so we buy more. I do agree he has more experience and maybe he just hasn’t seen marring with his $35 mitt.

It's cool that he is super approachable in person, but then why have a different persona when you're behind a keyboard? At least with Matt from Obsessed Garage you know that his personality would be the same whether in person or behind a computer.

I mean he probably does get a lot of trolls (not saying you were trolling). Also problem with text is interpretation. we read it how we take it but sometimes not how it was meant… hard to know.

I If there was one person that stands out above the rest when it comes to personalities in the detailing industry it would be Mike Phillips and it's not even close in my eyes. He talks the talk and walks the walk.

That was my thinking too. I know Matt rubs people the wrong way, even I've been offended by a few key points of view, but at least you know what you are getting. Is that good or bad, I'm not sure.

My comments earlier were based on actions that apparently seem out of character for TCR going by what others have been saying. One would hope that is the case.

Agreed and why I state about how txt are read. I asked Mike a question about a weird paint issue that I thought might be burn through. I felt his answer was facetious didn’t address my problem and I was not happy with him literally was making jokes.

Only reason I still came here was the other great people here who tried to help.

After some other interactions I just took it as a one off as he was helpful in other instances. Maybe I just read wrong.

And as for being different in person we only know people from online we haven’t met most in person. I personally would judge in person.

None of has ever met Matt I’m guessing. I’d personally think I’d like hanging with him. Just don’t appreciate his business style or model.

I didn’t like Todd at first. Didn’t mind him but didn’t like him. But just read some good interaction with him and I trust BP1 1000%


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[Bill D]

I have never spent$35 on a mitt nor do I plan to. Less expensive but good quality MF mitts will do the job fine.

 

[Coatingsarecrack]

I remember when you posted this before and I thought long and hard about it

Like others on here I use however many mitts or plush towels it takes to clean a vehicle without having to reintroduce the wash media back into the soap or RW bucket

That equals ZERO percent chance of adding extra grit to the washing equation

Calling it a CRUTCH just flys in the face of logic

I have to wonder if a time equals profit based business like Esoteric just doesn't want to take the extra few seconds to toss a mitt and grab a clean one (if it even does take longer) or if possibly they don't want to have to purchase, launder, dry, store, etc several hundred mitts to deal with say a dozen cars a day

I was also thinking if you are going to be correcting paint anyway maybe you aren't worried about the few new swirls a single mitt might add

But what about maintenance washes

I won't ever understand his logic and simply saying 99.9% of car people wouldn't want to do it is using a crutch in a logic argument

I find multiple mitts for me faster just fill up bucket throw in 10,mitts and go. But I do get it. Rinseless people (including the Guz) use 1 spinge for rinseless and many claims of no scratching with let alone 1 bucket. If in fact they do not scratch I gotta believe a mitt is safer than a sponge and 2 buckets better than 1?

Again just my thoughts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[chilly]

I find multiple mitts for me faster just fill up bucket throw in 10,mitts and go. But I do get it. Rinseless people (including the Guz) use 1 spinge for rinseless and many claims of no scratching with let alone 1 bucket. If in fact they do not scratch I gotta believe a mitt is safer than a sponge and 2 buckets better than 1?

Again just my thoughts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sponges scare me, always have

As you point out others have great luck with them

Maybe they have a gentler hand or something

I have seen Apex and Forensic look at wash media under some pretty high magnification although I don't remember any definitive "this releases dirt better"

This is such a subjective subject, and I have to freely admit that the detailers I think highly of probably all use a simple 2 bucket method

In this particular scenario it was the way the question or suggestion was handled and seemingly dismissed out of hand as if it were alien conspiracy theory

As you stated, maybe it was taken out of context or Todd spilled his Cheerios that morning or something

I guess the moral is we all are free to follow our heads and hearts and detail cars the way we see fit

To each his own and peace to everyone

 

[Bill D]

I only use sponges around the house for things like washing windows.

It’s true that people should find their own detailing methods and stick with them if they work for them. It’s their car after all and they can do what they see fit with it.

 

[BudgetPlan1]

Esoteric gets a pass from me for Budget Plan 1. One of the nicest persons I’ve never met. I trust his opinions about detailing.

If he was willing to leave a long standing job to go work for them and been there 1-2 years I gotta assume there good guys… I like there content as much as anyone else out there.


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That right there. Budget is the most honest, standup guy you could ask to interact with. Read a ton of his words all over detail forums, his posts on the forums, chatted with him and talked to him on the phone. He is the reason I headed to visit Esoteric when I was down in Ohio, woulda never thought of it if not for talked to him. Then when I got there and met Todd I found such a similar personality. I think the shop/business is so successfull because there are alot of like minded personalities working there. Wheather a Lambo owner or Chevy Cruz or Civic owner walks in, everyone is treated equally with respect and like a friend.

You’re far too kind…just ask my wife how ‘nice’ I am and you might get an opposing view!

Kinda funny how this whole ‘shiny car’ thing turned into so much more for me because of the people I’ve met; online, in-person, each day at work on the phone.

Who’d a figured just trying to keep a new, black Subaru in good shape would lead to all that it did?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[SNP209]

He’s kinda right. I personally have never seen a study done in a Laboratory controlling all variables showing that two bucket with grit gaurd was a more invasive. I believe that but that in fact is a belief/theory…. No scientific proof.

And being sale knowing that side wouldn’t it benefit him selling all his followers 10 $35 Wash mitt/sponge than 1? Everything in our hobby promotes more.

1bucket, then 2, then 3, wait everyone now has 3 buckets let’s sell these gaurds… everyone needs 3! Coat your car but be sure to top it…. Also use a drying aid. Wait now use 10 mitts instead of one. Wait you need a different coating for your wheels and trim…. Wait now you don’t.

A lot of that uses marketing in how it will benefit protecting our paint… so we buy more. I do agree he has more experience and maybe he just hasn’t seen marring with his $35 mitt.



I mean he probably does get a lot of trolls (not saying you were trolling). Also problem with text is interpretation. we read it how we take it but sometimes not how it was meant… hard to know.








Agreed and why I state about how txt are read. I asked Mike a question about a weird paint issue that I thought might be burn through. I felt his answer was facetious didn’t address my problem and I was not happy with him literally was making jokes.

Only reason I still came here was the other great people here who tried to help.

After some other interactions I just took it as a one off as he was helpful in other instances. Maybe I just read wrong.

And as for being different in person we only know people from online we haven’t met most in person. I personally would judge in person.

None of has ever met Matt I’m guessing. I’d personally think I’d like hanging with him. Just don’t appreciate his business style or model.

I didn’t like Todd at first. Didn’t mind him but didn’t like him. But just read some good interaction with him and I trust BP1 1000%


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You're right, you won't find any studies about the 2BM being more invasive, but can you find a conclusive study showing that a grit guard is 100% effective at keeping contaminants at the bottom of the bucket? What if you forget to rub your mitt against the grit guard and proceed to wash your car? Wouldn't you agree that could potentially cause marring?

The 2BM has it's place and has been used for a couple decades now with the advent of the grit guard back in 2002. Products and processes evolve and the multiple mitt method is just one of them.

Washing my car is like therapy for me and I'm sure many folks here share the same sentiment. I just want to take all the guess work out of it and enjoy the process then admire the results.

 

[DUBL0WS6]

Chemical Guys Spray and Wipe is a pretty good product for light dust.

 

[Coatingsarecrack]

You're right, you won't find any studies about the 2BM being more invasive, but can you find a conclusive study showing that a grit guard is 100% effective at keeping contaminants at the bottom of the bucket? What if you forget to rub your mitt against the grit guard and proceed to wash your car? Wouldn't you agree that could potentially cause marring?

The 2BM has it's place and has been used for a couple decades now with the advent of the grit guard back in 2002. Products and processes evolve and the multiple mitt method is just one of them.

Washing my car is like therapy for me and I'm sure many folks here share the same sentiment. I just want to take all the guess work out of it and enjoy the process then admire the results.

The DirtLock significantly better than the gritguard for me.

I only two bucket when I use a sponge for rinseless.

I use ONR in the rinse bucket because even though I have better products to touch the paint, I’ve not seen anything encapsulate as well keeping grit at bottom.

I use something else in wash bucket.


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[DFB]

What if one of his employees mentioned the idea to him, but instead of giving the new guy some credit for teaching an old dog a new trick he decided to be a prick and force the new guy to do it the hard way, the real way, the way he always had to do it therefore nobody, especially not some young buck is going to have things any easier… You get 1 mitt, use it. It’s called work!
Because I’m the boss and I said so.

I dunno, kinda seems plausible. Lol.
I mean I wouldn’t do that, but there’s people who are like that.

I agree with you. At the same time I’m of the belief and fully understand that old dogs can be hard to change once they’re stuck in their ways.

I’ll tell you a story I don’t think I’ve ever told on this forum.
Do you know who Derek Bemiss is? He’s Barry Meguiars personal detailer. I worked for him for a brief time several years ago and right from the start I knew from him making it clear enough that he wanted things done in a systematic order and I knew right away without him having to tell me that I better respect that and I did.

That meant that my way of washing cars suddenly didn’t matter while I was “working” because I had the follow his way of doing things, his “system” was the only way even down to how we vacuumed a vehicle, which was done with only a crevice tool and a detail brush for the entire interior. [How that part of it didn’t drive me a little nuts I dunno, because I’m a big of a vacumm freak] lol.

I’ll tell you this though, just before our short time together came to an end I had been banking several ideas that I was going to respectfully bring to the table and at least mention to him to see if he’d be interested in trying.

-1 of them was using multiple mitts. [we had 2 mitts per person and that was the 1st time I had ever used a grit guard as intended. It does work]
-Another was the introduction of several new vacuum attachments.
-Another one [and this one was almost shocking] was the fact that he wasn’t familiar with D114 Rinseless Wash Concentrate yet. Like he had literally never used it before even though all products were sponsored by Meguiars for unlimited use. Lol.

I was like dude you have to try this stuff. It’s like APC Lite. I actually did bring a gallon I mixed up to work 1 day for us to test out.
He did use D115 which is the rinseless wash & wax concentrate. He liked to use that as the finishing touch on glass. Lots of interesting quirks that I’ll never forget.

There were so many interesting ideas I had in mind but out of respect and me being new I didn’t want to rock the boat and changed my ways for the betterment of all and stuck to the system. It was certainly different though. Lol.

Btw the reason it didn’t last was because it was simply too far away and I’m like the worst when it comes to being stuck in traffic for long drives everyday like that. I’ve never done it.

The family I work for has owned the business for 41 years now. With that, you certainly have a "we've been doing this for 40 years" type of mentality. Of course, those 40+ years of experience are well worth having, I guess you don't last that long if you are not doing things right. But, that also brings an our-way-or-the-highway type of attitude, one that can be extremely frustrating to work around.

On one occasion, a new employee was told she was welcome to try new things, that as a business they could benefit from new or fresh ideas. The result ended up being things done differently, but "not how we always do things". So which is it then? Fresh blood and fresh ideas, or do as we say because that's how we always do it.

I'm the sort of person who likes to find different ways to do things, mainly from an efficiency point of view. If I find a way of working that is more efficient and deliveries the same or superior results, then doesn't that make me more productive as an employee? As an employer, why would you waste energy trying to suppress that. In this sort of working environment, I have found the line to be extremely thin when it comes to showing initiative and being unmotivated or lazy. Frankly, sometimes an employer only ever sees their employees as a liability, that they see things from one angle rather than the bigger picture.