Help Classify This Paint Failure Issue

[Coach Steve]

2003 Camry
Factory paint
Original owner
Always garaged until 2013
This maroon beauty was brought to me for interior service.

This car shows nearly every stage of failing/failed clear coat. seriously, it could be used for training! In addition, it has an anomaly I've never seen before and I'm hopeful you can shed some light on what's going on here.

At first glance, it looks very much the way aged, worn fiberglass looks when the gel coat has failed and the fibers begin to stick through. As you get closer, it looks more like someone used the hood as a cutting board while cutting lots of vegetables. (Sorry, that's the best analogy I could come up with). :laughing: An even closer look reveals that the paint has released from the hood much like you would expect to see when paint won't adhere to the intended media due to it being contaminated.
The weird thing is, this vehicle was not painted consistently. Most parts of it are base coat/clear coat but the hood and roof appear to be single stage. The bumpers and trim pieces are def single stage as you would expect. The other weird thing is the paint in the pictures, although raised up and peeling back, isn't brittle. I thought for sure I would run my hand over the area and all the raised points would be leveled. It's not brittle at all. In fact, I had to actually try and break one of them to level it.

Hopefully, I've explained the situation well enough that you can get a clear idea of what's going on here.
The pics are hi def so be sure to view them full size to really get the true perspective.

Thanks!


https://i.imgur.com/IqsZiDB.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/mt3H6dK.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/xsaFn47.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/UQGTtVk.jpg

[DetailKitty]

All I know is that won't buff out :laughing:

So weird.... almost like they used it for a cutting surface like you said!!!!!

I think I'd ask the owner what the heck happened.

[Hammer77]

That's wild. It kind of looks like something chemical related. I've seen things like Goo Gone do that to painted surfaces, not on a car, equipment at work.

[Desertnate]

If you weren't in Arizona, I'd say they used a snow shovel or a heavy duty push broom to remove snow. I've seen both used and they leave wicked scratches all over the surface.

The area with the flaking and heavy scratches seems to be a totally different type of paint. The type of failure and color are different from the failed areas on the back part of the hood.

From what you describe it sounds like this car was a training project in a body shop or junior college somewhere.... "Today class we're going to repaint this car using all the products and techniques you've learned this semester. Each section will be different in order for you to demonstrate all you have learned. Now get to work!"

[Coach Steve]

All I know is that won't buff out :laughing:

So weird.... almost like they used it for a cutting surface like you said!!!!!

I think I'd ask the owner what the heck happened.

I did, as soon as he pulled it in. He said he had no idea. This vehicle became the "extra" car sometime in late 2013 when they bought a new one and it lost its spot in the garage. He said he was able to watch the deterioration of the finish over the past 4 years. He admitted that it didn't get the love and routine care as often as it did for the first 10 years of ownership, but that he wash it at least once a month and waxed it twice a year. So, IMHO, this isn't really a case of neglect. I've serviced cars here in aZ that have suffered true neglect for a couple of years at a time that didn't have anywhere near the issues this thing has. Weird....

Oh, it'll buff out. I'll use my rotary with a sanding disk attached! :D

[Coach Steve]

If you weren't in Arizona, I'd say they used a snow shovel or a heavy duty push broom to remove snow. I've seen both used and they leave wicked scratches all over the surface.

The area with the flaking and heavy scratches seems to be a totally different type of paint. The type of failure and color are different from the failed areas on the back part of the hood.

From what you describe it sounds like this car was a training project in a body shop or junior college somewhere.... "Today class we're going to repaint this car using all the products and techniques you've learned this semester. Each section will be different in order for you to demonstrate all you have learned. Now get to work!"

The first thing I thought when I saw it was that it was a repaint and it wasn't properly prepped leaving some kind of contamination on the surface which prevented adhesion.

What's stranger still is that until it was banished to live out its days outside, the paint was pristine so whatever caused this didn't manifest until 10 years into its life.

[2black1s]

This example highlights a few points that I bring up from time-to-time...

- The sun is brutal on paint. Like you've stated this car was always garaged until 2013 and the paint was in good condition. Then 4 years of AZ sun did it in. I always try to minimize sun exposure to all of my vehicles when they are not being used.

- Factory paint is always more durable than any repaint. This is the probable explanation for differing levels and types of failure noted. I cringe when I hear people talking about repainting a panel to repair some really minor defect. It is often better to live with some minor defect than to sacrifice the factory finish for a repaint.

- Paint preparation is key. The cutting board effect you've brought up appears to be a factory replacement panel that was painted over the factory primer without proper preparation, i.e., sanding. Many shops will simply clean a new panel, apply a primer/sealer over the factory primer, and then topcoat. That doesn't cut it. What has probably happened here is that the topcoat has cracked in the random pattern you compared to knife slices. Once cracked, then the edges start to flake. The less than ideal adhesion resulting from the improper prep contributes to the propensity for cracking to initiate.

There's probably a bit more to be learned from here but these items I bring up are what come quickly to mind.

[Paul A.]

That's the strangest paint deterioration pattern I think I've ever seen. Did anyone cook the engine during it's life? You or the owner may not know that either but if it looks like that only on the hood I'd be curious.

[Desertnate]

This



- Factory paint is always more durable than any repaint. This is the probable explanation for differing levels and types of failure noted. I cringe when I hear people talking about repainting a panel to repair some really minor defect. It is often better to live with some minor defect than to sacrifice the factory finish for a repaint.

Added to this


That's the strangest paint deterioration pattern I think I've ever seen. Did anyone cook the engine during it's life? You or the owner may not know that either but if it looks like that only on the hood I'd be curious.

Got me thinking. Could the hood be a replacement? The original might have been damaged in a fire or wreck, a used replacement was found at a junkyard and repainted to match. The prep work and/or wasn't done properly.

The customer has had the car for a long time, but are they the original owners? Something seems really odd with this vehicle. It's a real Frankenstein's Monster.

[noslef]

I have a 2005 Corolla painted in Black Sand Pearl that I purchased in 2012. It has the exact same paint failure on the roof and hood of the car. Looks like someone sliced the paint with a knife. It would be interesting to know the exact chemistry behind this type of failure.

[LSNAutoDetailing]

I’ve seen paint like that. My neighbor parked his car under a sapling olive tree every day for years. Add the fact he never washed or waxed it and add the Arizona sun. That is identical to his car.

Looks like it’s off to the body shop.


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[dcjredline]

Didnt some of you foos read the original post? It was like the 3rd thing he said that it was the ORIGINAL OWNER.
2003 Camry
Factory paint
Original owner
Always garaged until 2013
This maroon beauty was brought to me for interior service.

My guess would be what we used to see alot on Hondas in the early 90s called "crows feet" but these would be more like Pterodactyl Feet!!! Geesh

[pcford]

Looks like the remnants of a botched clear bra removal, i.e. solvents and scrapping, except I would have expected the line across the hood to be better defined.

[Loach]

The paint on mine failed in a similar fashion. Went from perfect condition to light fading, developing longer light cracking which are mistaken as swirls. This lighter cracking can develop into to larger severe fracturing and lifting, some areas of crows feet.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4521/25005648078_603defab7c_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4519/24012119387_13e6a10f1d_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4583/25005648148_7572c2889f_c.jpg

Before:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4144/5023915979_cf4d293302_z.jpg

Mine was a respray, but I wouldn't be surprised to find this kind of failure on cars where the clear is sprayed too thin from the factory. I see many Toyota's around that year that have fully rusted out horizontal panels from sun damage here in Florida.

[Coach Steve]

The paint on mine failed in a similar fashion. Went from perfect condition to light fading, developing longer light cracking which are mistaken as swirls. This lighter cracking can develop into to larger severe fracturing and lifting, some areas of crows feet.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4521/25005648078_603defab7c_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4519/24012119387_13e6a10f1d_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4583/25005648148_7572c2889f_c.jpg

Before:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4144/5023915979_cf4d293302_z.jpg

Mine was a respray, but I wouldn't be surprised to find this kind of failure on cars where the clear is sprayed too thin from the factory. I see many Toyota's around that year that have fully rusted out horizontal panels from sun damage here in Florida.

Ding, ding, ding! we have a winner! Well, sorta....
We still don't know exactly what the underlying cause of the failure is. It would be nice to find out what the recipe is for this exact kind of failure. Judging by the low number of replies by those who have actually seen this situation, I'm guessing it doesn't happen very often and there has to be very specific criteria in place for it to happen. i'm going to stop by a body shop and show these pics to one of the techs and see if they can 'splain it to me like I'm a four-year-old and I'll report back.



My guess would be what we used to see alot on Hondas in the early 90s called "crows feet" but these would be more like Pterodactyl Feet!!! GeeshLMAO! That was funny!