Wax or sealant first?

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SIXTY3

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I have just recently bought some CG 5050 Concourse paste wax.
I usually do a coat of CG Blacklight followed by a coat of V7. Would I apply the 5050 before Zaino ZCS spray sealant or after?
 
I have no clue I woul have thought ud use one or the other.... And if u did use both id wax last cuz it always seems to be Last cuz its like the protectant. Im gonna look more into this cuz im wondering now and ill repost if some one else has not.

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Definetly sealant first. Possible oils from wax won't help the sealant bond onto surface.
 
Thanks for the replies.
I actually did a coat of Blacklight then CG 5050 wax first followed by a coat of Zaino ZCS sealant. I think I'll do another coat of 5050 then more V7 tommorow, don't think it will look much better than it already does maybe a little more protection.

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All you will need in microfiber
 
lay down the sealant first because it's usually a polymer or synthetic and lasts longer
then comes the wax. wax (carnuba) does't last as long, but creates a differant "better" shine and can be layered
 
I've heard it both ways around the forum... I've ever had people say to put down glaze, and then a sealant to 'lock' the glaze in and make it last longer and be more durable - although I would think the oils from the glaze would somehow interfere with the sealant properly curing?
 
dynamic, you're basicly right about the glaze. glaze is a "temorary" thing,...like before a car show or to throw that quick shine down. so covering it with a sealant will lock the gaze in a little longer
 
oh, BTW sixty3...let us know what you think of the 5050
is it worth the $$$ ?
 
crackervol said:
dynamic, you're basicly right about the glaze. glaze is a "temorary" thing,...like before a car show or to throw that quick shine down. so covering it with a sealant will lock the gaze in a little longer
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Ok, this is honestly one of the single most confusing things to me... so let me see if I can get this straight once and for all:

1. Sealants work BEST and are INTENDED to be applied DIRECTLY to the clear coat, on freshly cleaned paint with NO waxes, glazes, or old wold sealant underneath, right?

2. BUT... sealants CAN ALSO be used to put OVER other items like Glazes or Waxes for example, to extend the life of whatever is below them, it just won't be able to bond directly to the paint in this situation, but will still render the same crisp detail and gloss, along with the durable protection and longevity... it just won't be curing and bonding directly to the paint!?

Feed back please
 
I see a lot of posts about "topping" sealants and waxes with other waxes. If you are going to layer your products you definitely want to lay down the sealant first. A straight carnauba wax isn't going to last as long but some people like the added depth and warmth it gives the paint. Most sealants are designed to bond directly to paint or on top of the same sealant. Anything else in between the paint and the sealant is going to shorten the life span of the product. Likewise with wax.

So, you may be getting a little more depth or gloss by layering but I don't think you are adding a whole lot more durability. My personal preference is to wash/clay/polish/chemically stip the paint with 12% IPA, then sealant or wax. IMO this gives lets the LSP do it's job which is form a strong bond with clean paint and create shine and lasting protection.
 
Dynamic_Detailing said:
Ok, this is honestly one of the single most confusing things to me... so let me see if I can get this straight once and for all:

1. Sealants work BEST and are INTENDED to be applied DIRECTLY to the clear coat, on freshly cleaned paint with NO waxes, glazes, or old wold sealant underneath, right?

2. BUT... sealants CAN ALSO be used to put OVER other items like Glazes or Waxes for example, to extend the life of whatever is below them, it just won't be able to bond directly to the paint in this situation, but will still render the same crisp detail and gloss, along with the durable protection and longevity... it just won't be curing and bonding directly to the paint!?

Feed back please
Click to expand...

Nicholas@Autowerx said:
I see a lot of posts about "topping" sealants and waxes with other waxes. If you are going to layer your products you definitely want to lay down the sealant first. A straight carnauba wax isn't going to last as long but some people like the added depth and warmth it gives the paint. Most sealants are designed to bond directly to paint or on top of the same sealant. Anything else in between the paint and the sealant is going to shorten the life span of the product. Likewise with wax.

So, you may be getting a little more depth or gloss by layering but I don't think you are adding a whole lot more durability. My personal preference is to wash/clay/polish/chemically stip the paint with 12% IPA, then sealant or wax. IMO this gives lets the LSP do it's job which is form a strong bond with clean paint and create shine and lasting protection.
Click to expand...

So Sealants "CAN" be used over a glaze and over a wax... as long as the BASE protective coating is applied directly to the paint?

EXAMPLE:
-Sealant
-Glaze
-Sealant
-LSP Carnauba
-Sealant

Each layer of sealant will lock in the weaker layer of protection and make it last long/more durable?

Lastly... 12% IPA? I thought something like Chemical Guy's Red Citrus Wash would easily strip all wax and sealants from the paint?
 
Sealants are best applied directly to a perfectly prepped surface that has been stripped of all contaminants with something like Klean Strip Prep All or DuPont Prep Sol. That allows the sealant to bond to the paint and will give you the best durability. Usually most seants get a second coat spaced 12-24 hours apart to allow the sealant to cure. You are then free to apply any non cleaner wax you want for a carnauba shine. As far as glazes, there is no standard definition for the term glaze. Some are designed to be applied only before a wax/sealant and others before or after. Some even have some paint protection properties and can be used as an LSP, like CG Cream Glaze with Acrylic Shine. If your car is prepped well, you shouldn't need a glaze. Now, many people do apply a glaze before a sealant to hide minor swirls. The trade off is reduced durability of the sealant.
It is always a good practice to follow the manufacturer's recommendations when using any sealant. Some are more forgiving then others.
 
truckbutt said:
Now, many people do apply a glaze before a sealant to hide minor swirls. The trade off is reduced durability of the sealant.
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Nice Mustang.

So, sealants CAN be applied in any order, such as on-top of a glaze that is applied before anything else to hide swirls after an IPA wipe-down/strip, but the longevity of the sealant will be affected, NOTHING TO DO WITH PROPER CURING OR ULTIMATE RESULT AND SHINE!?

That is ALWAYS what I thought. I honestly don't care at all about longevity, I like to re-do my car often, I just always thought if sealants weren't applied DIRECTLY to freshly stripped and prepped paint, they wouldn't bond and cure properly, and it would make the product itself appear cloudy or streaky, and it wouldn't be able to flash/cure.

If you're saying sealants will still perform optimally and produce the same awesome visual results on the paint, they just won't last AS long, then awesome, I actually like that! :)
 
You should use one or the other. They both do the same thing. Your wasting time money and product using them both. The defenition of a glaze or polish (glaze/polish are the same thing) is a product that contains no protection. There would never be any wax in a polish/glaze. After using a polish/glaze product you would then want to protect the shine with a wax(natural) or sealant(manmade) I'm not sure the second layer would even stick to the first. Nothing sould stick to a freshly waxed car if your using a half way decent product.
 
rustytruck said:
You should use one or the other.
1. They both do the same thing.
Your wasting time money and product using them both.
2. The defenition of a glaze or polish (glaze/polish are the same thing) is a product that contains no protection.
There would never be any wax in a polish/glaze. After using a polish/glaze product you would then want to protect the shine with a wax(natural) or sealant(manmade) I'm not sure the second layer would even stick to the first. Nothing sould stick to a freshly waxed car if your using a half way decent product.
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1. Not completely correct. While both do act as protective coatings for the paint, sealants are designed to last months and not weeks as most carnauba's are. One exception is Collinite #845 which will last months. Also most sealants lack the warm glow of a carnauba and so people will apply a sealant for the protection and reapply carnauba every few weeks.

2. Not true. There are no standard definitions for either polish or glaze. Some polishes like M205 have abrasives while others like BFGEP do not have any abrasives. Some glazes can be applied as a LSP, such as CG Creme Glaze with Acrylic Shine.
Meguirs D151 is a polish/compound/lsp all in one.
 
Your talking about 3 different things. A polish/glaze never has any wax or it is not a polish/glaze. If it contains both polish and wax then it would be a AIO. That is a one step product that replaces the polish/glaze step then the wax or sealant step. AIO are called one step because it replaces the two step process by putting two different products in one bottle. Abrasives have to do with the glaze/polish better quality glaze/polish will contain micro diminishing abrasives. Lower cost glaze/polish will not contain these. The term glaze and polish are interchangeable. Some manufacturers call their polish polish and some call it a glaze.
To review
Wax or sealant lsp
Polish/gaze same thing. May or may not contain abrasives, but never contains wax
AIO one step product that contains both wax AND polish/glaze. This may or may not contain abrasives.
 
crackervol said:
oh, BTW sixty3...let us know what you think of the 5050
is it worth the $$$ ?
Click to expand...

I really like the 5050,very easy to appy and remove, I don't have a lot to compare it to though. I have used dodo and nattys blue paste in the past and find 5050 a let better
 
To me it makes no sense to put a sealant over a carnuba--sealants contain polymers that bond to the paint--they can't bond if they are applied to a layer of carnuba. Many people put on a coat of sealant then add a layer of carnuba for that warmer look, but then you can't add a layer of sealant later.
 
Thanks for all the input from this thread, Derek 0609 were just talking about this a couple weeks ago. I've only added caranuba to my car after winning that BF contest a couple weeks ago (thanks again Nick and AG). I've only used Zaino Z-5 pro w/ZFX and Z-CS/ Klasse SG/ BFWD and BFCS on my car since I've gotten it back on Sept 10th 2011, so the addition of a caranuba product gave my car a different look, a look I actually liked to be honest, so again, thanks for this thread. I will say that even if you've got a sealant layed down, IMO, after a while, adding a caranuba ontop of the sealant shouldn't matter too much because it has worn down some, so I'd think it would stick better than say a freshly applied sealant....am I wrong?
 
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