Wax or sealant first?

[ski2]

You can add a layer of sealant over sealant at any time, but it is my understanding that once you put carnuba over the sealant you cannot add additional sealant unless you strip off the carnuba. You can always send a note to Sal at ZAINO if you want the final answer.

 

[mg6045]

Lastly... 12% IPA? I thought something like Chemical Guy's Red Citrus Wash would easily strip all wax and sealants from the paint?

Ive been using Chemical guys shampoo's for a long time. And I also have a gallon of there Red Citrus Wash.

Sorry to break the news, but with the current polymer sealants on the market (Menzerna, Wolfgang, Blackfire), there Citrus shampoo's will NOT remove them. Actually, in my experience, they hardly even dent them. The shampoo will remove wax and will aid greatly in getting to a stripped surface along with an APC , but they wont remove modern polymer sealants.

Not even 12% IPA will remove a sealant.

To remove a (effectively, as in remove it completely) sealant, ESPECIALLY if it is relatively fresh, you will either have to use an APC on the paint. Or my recommendation is to use a paint or pre-wax cleaner.

Ive done the whole citrus wash thing, and have washed the car twice, along with spraying APC on the panels along with the wash. And to be honest, its faster and safer to just go ove the paint , panel by panel, by hand or with a polisher, and take the 20 minutes to remove the sealant with a pre-wax cleaner or non abrasive paint cleaner.

Thats just my experience with atleast those 3 sealants.

If you are not doing some sort of polishing afterwards, its best practice to avoid using an APC to strip paint, and go for the prewax cleaner instead. APC's tend to dry the paint or even make it dull. And the ones that are paint safe, if left in spots without good rinsing will leave hazey spots in the paint until polished away.

 

[Ohio Detailing]

Ive been using Chemical guys shampoo's for a long time. And I also have a gallon of there Red Citrus Wash.

Sorry to break the news, but with the current polymer sealants on the market (Menzerna, Wolfgang, Blackfire), there Citrus shampoo's will NOT remove them. Actually, in my experience, they hardly even dent them. The shampoo will remove wax and will aid greatly in getting to a stripped surface along with an APC , but they wont remove modern polymer sealants.

Not even 12% IPA will remove a sealant.

To remove a (effectively, as in remove it completely) sealant, ESPECIALLY if it is relatively fresh, you will either have to use an APC on the paint. Or my recommendation is to use a paint or pre-wax cleaner.

Ive done the whole citrus wash thing, and have washed the car twice, along with spraying APC on the panels along with the wash. And to be honest, its faster and safer to just go ove the paint , panel by panel, by hand or with a polisher, and take the 20 minutes to remove the sealant with a pre-wax cleaner or non abrasive paint cleaner.

Thats just my experience with atleast those 3 sealants.

If you are not doing some sort of polishing afterwards, its best practice to avoid using an APC to strip paint, and go for the prewax cleaner instead. APC's tend to dry the paint or even make it dull. And the ones that are paint safe, if left in spots without good rinsing will leave hazey spots in the paint until polished away.

Thanks so much, really helpful and informative. I've been watching a lot of the videos over and over again to familiarize myself with techniques, and Mike uses a 10% IPA with water and isopropyl alcohol to inspect his compounding and polishing results using the FLEX 3401, which is what I'm buying as soon as AutoGeek has another No Restrictions Sale. Check out the great video here if you want: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn_kVH3BVc]In depth Look at the FLEX 3401 Polisher - YouTube[/video]

Anyway, can you please recommend a hand-applied:
1. Pre-Wax Paint Cleaner
2. Cleaner Wax

 

[Ohio Detailing]

You can add a layer of sealant over sealant at any time, but it is my understanding that once you put carnuba over the sealant you cannot add additional sealant unless you strip off the carnuba. You can always send a note to Sal at ZAINO if you want the final answer.

Thanks.

So, can sealants be put over a glaze effectively to maximize the life and durability of the glaze?

Can either/both of these be done?
1. Compound, Polish, Sealant, Glaze, Sealant, Carnauba?
2. Compound, Polish, Sealant, Glaze, Carnauba?

 

[ski2]

Thanks.

So, can sealants be put over a glaze effectively to maximize the life and durability of the glaze?

Can either/both of these be done?
1. Compound, Polish, Sealant, Glaze, Sealant, Carnauba?
2. Compound, Polish, Sealant, Glaze, Carnauba?

Sealants actually bond with the paint and need to be put on a clean oil and wax free surface so they can do that. They can also bond with themselves. So I don't believe they can be put over a glaze which leaves "fillers" behind to hide imperfections. However, I believe you can put a wax over glazes.

I have used DG105 and Zaino products and both of these require a clean uncoated surface for bonding. Other sealants may be different so you could contact the manufacturer of any particular sealant for their product. I know DG and Zaino are both very responsive.

Currently I'm using DG105 as a first coat bkz of it's known durability-- topped with HD POXY (which is a hybrid--sealant/Montan Wax combo) and then add an additional coat of POXY every 4 months or so. But in the spring remove everything then start the process all over. I'd never put additional coats of DG105 over the POXY as it wouldn't bond to the paint.

I wouldn't think a glaze would last very long on top of a sealant as the job of the sealant is to stop anything from bonding with the paint however, I have no direct knowledge of this.

 

[LPfromNJ]

Some excellent information here and definitely answered some questions for me. Please excuse my noobieness here but I plan on doing my car again soon. The paint is in excellent condition but does have 1 or 2 areas with some pretty good scratches that will need to be compounded out. I plan on doing a wash, clay bar cleaning, and compounding the bad areas. I'd like to use the Blackfire 11 minute sealant and then Collinite 845. If not 845 then 2 coats of the sealant. My questions are ...
1. What do I do in between the compounding and the Blackfire? Can I go right over the compounded areas AND clay barred areas with the sealant and get uniform coverage?
2. Can you polish and then wax over the sealant or is that overkill?
3. The Blackfire states to be applied very lightly by hand. Can I also apply the 845 (if used) by hand as well? Or does it need to be applied by machine? If by Machine, will these break down the sealant at all after the curing period?

My ultimate goal here is I want protection for the winter time (salt ect...) but I'm looking for an intense shine at the same time. I really like when the paint looks wet. I currently use Mother's Reflections Car wax and top coat. Looks great, extremely easy to use, but doesn't seem the product that professionals normally mention. Shine is outstanding, but I'm looking for that extra POP. Thank you in advance.

 

[bbk11]

Some excellent information here and definitely answered some questions for me. Please excuse my noobieness here but I plan on doing my car again soon. The paint is in excellent condition but does have 1 or 2 areas with some pretty good scratches that will need to be compounded out. I plan on doing a wash, clay bar cleaning, and compounding the bad areas. I'd like to use the Blackfire 11 minute sealant and then Collinite 845. If not 845 then 2 coats of the sealant. My questions are ...
1. What do I do in between the compounding and the Blackfire? Can I go right over the compounded areas AND clay barred areas with the sealant and get uniform coverage?
2. Can you polish and then wax over the sealant or is that overkill?
3. The Blackfire states to be applied very lightly by hand. Can I also apply the 845 (if used) by hand as well? Or does it need to be applied by machine? If by Machine, will these break down the sealant at all after the curing period?

My ultimate goal here is I want protection for the winter time (salt ect...) but I'm looking for an intense shine at the same time. I really like when the paint looks wet. I currently use Mother's Reflections Car wax and top coat. Looks great, extremely easy to use, but doesn't seem the product that professionals normally mention. Shine is outstanding, but I'm looking for that extra POP. Thank you in advance.

In my limited experience, if you use the Black Fire Wet Diamond (BFWD) Paint Sealant, this would be a great product to use and also, has a wet look, so don't have to put wax over it. I would put at least 2 coats, 8 hrs apart to get a great seal if you are compounding your car. The spray on Black Fire is good as an additive to periodically do, but think if you want to get a great base sealant down, would go with BFWD Paint sealant. I think waxing over the paint sealant would be overkill, although, depends on the look you want. There are those that say, with a canuba wax over a sealant, it gives a warm (?) look. Personally, I like the look of the BFWD sealant just by itself. Also, if you place a wax over the sealant, think would have to remove it to place more sealant later, since the was would cause a barrier to the sealant bonding to the paint, or previous sealant.

Don't know or have any experience with Collinite 845.

 

[LPfromNJ]

bbk11- thank you very much for the information. I appreciate it.

 

[bbk11]

Your welcome LPfromNJ. I had similar questions when I first started on this forum, since I was just use to using a polish/wax like Zymol in the past. Didn't know much about the paint sealants, but after doing a lot of research, and asking questions, decided that for me, paint sealants are way to go since they last longer. But, there are so many differing opinions on sealants and waxes, and basically becomes a preferential taste. Think you would be happy with the BFWD Paint sealant though.

 

[LPfromNJ]

bbk11- thank you again for the helpful feedback. I know I'm not the 1st to say this but I wish this forum was around years ago when I had absolutely no clue on what I was doing as far as detailing. Once I started searching around here, I realized how much more I needed to learn. So I spend hours a day checking out videos and threads. I'm just wow'd by all of it.

I ordered the BFCS and waiting for that. This was before I saw your post. I'm a little confused though because in some areas I see that the Crystal Seal should be applied directly to a clean paint surface to bond directly to the paint, but then see it's recommended to polish the paint and then use the CS. Wouldn't the CS then stick to the polish and not the paint directly? Or is "clean paint" meaning without swirls or defects not necessarily "raw paint?" This is why I thought it could be applied to a paint that was clay barred and buffed with MF towels and not streaked? Any info on that would be greatly appreciated. For the look I'm going for, is probably a little unrealistic, I want a show car shine with durability on my DD. LOL!!! Just being honest. haha! Thanks again.

 

[bbk11]

bbk11- thank you again for the helpful feedback. I know I'm not the 1st to say this but I wish this forum was around years ago when I had absolutely no clue on what I was doing as far as detailing. Once I started searching around here, I realized how much more I needed to learn. So I spend hours a day checking out videos and threads. I'm just wow'd by all of it.

I ordered the BFCS and waiting for that. This was before I saw your post. I'm a little confused though because in some areas I see that the Crystal Seal should be applied directly to a clean paint surface to bond directly to the paint, but then see it's recommended to polish the paint and then use the CS. Wouldn't the CS then stick to the polish and not the paint directly? Or is "clean paint" meaning without swirls or defects not necessarily "raw paint?" This is why I thought it could be applied to a paint that was clay barred and buffed with MF towels and not streaked? Any info on that would be greatly appreciated. For the look I'm going for, is probably a little unrealistic, I want a show car shine with durability on my DD. LOL!!! Just being honest. haha! Thanks again.

Well, to reiterate, I am also a novice at this, and also have been learning on the fly. I do have the BFWD Paint Sealant, and also the Crystal seal. Basically as I understand it, the Crystal Seal is basically the same as the BFWD, but possibly a little more concentrated, and a little different formulation so that you don't have to wait till it drys, then wipe off. On the contrary, with the crystal seal, you are acutally just spreading it out a thin spray over your panels, and that's it. So you just get that wet look too. I use it inbetween the BFWD. As far as bonding goes, I just spray on periodically after thouroughly washing the car. Since I just have the BFWD on the car, this will just hopefully bond to that. Paint sealant on paint sealant. Think if you have wax between, then it won't bond so well.

This is a site you may check out: Reviewed: BLACKFIRE Crystal Seal- Seal your paint in under 8 minutes! - Autopia Forums - Auto Detailing & Car Care Discussion Forum

But again for me, I like to put down a good 2 layers of the BFWD to make sure I have a good base sealant on, then periodically use the crystal seal. And, you only have to use a very little amount...I use it like a quick touch up so to speak. So I may do the BFWD every 4-6 months, then use the Crystal seal inbetween once.

And since you like to watch videos, this is a link to the Blackfire products review: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kixNblfC7LM]Black Fire Winter 2012 Product Preview / Review - YouTube[/video]

Hope this helps....

I agree with you, there are is so much out there now with all the opinions and experts on different sites, and forums....

Like anything though, you just have to try it and see if you like it...:dblthumb2: Good Luck. Glad to be of some help....

 

[bbk11]

bbk11- thank you again for the helpful feedback. I know I'm not the 1st to say this but I wish this forum was around years ago when I had absolutely no clue on what I was doing as far as detailing. Once I started searching around here, I realized how much more I needed to learn. So I spend hours a day checking out videos and threads. I'm just wow'd by all of it.

I ordered the BFCS and waiting for that. This was before I saw your post. I'm a little confused though because in some areas I see that the Crystal Seal should be applied directly to a clean paint surface to bond directly to the paint, but then see it's recommended to polish the paint and then use the CS. Wouldn't the CS then stick to the polish and not the paint directly? Or is "clean paint" meaning without swirls or defects not necessarily "raw paint?" This is why I thought it could be applied to a paint that was clay barred and buffed with MF towels and not streaked? Any info on that would be greatly appreciated. For the look I'm going for, is probably a little unrealistic, I want a show car shine with durability on my DD. LOL!!! Just being honest. haha! Thanks again.

Also, I think when they say "clean paint", you are correct that is shouldn't have defects, or swirls, etc since the paint sealant, will do just that, it will seal your paint surface, so if you have contamination on the surface, you will be sealing that in...I personally like the look of the BFWD on the car. It really does give it a wet look. Don't think you will be disappointed. But, again, it comes down to preference, just like choosing a good red wine. Everyone has their own tastes...

 

[LPfromNJ]

bbk11- Thank you once or I should say twice again for all the great information and links. I actually saw that video on youtube but I thank you for that too. There doesn't seem to be many videos on youtube besides what's on this forum. As far as the forum, every time I come on I learn something new. I love it.

Interesting about the BFWD being the same as BFCS just being more concentrated. Since I already ordered the BFCS I'll try that 1st for now. I'm really happy that it has the wet look aspect because that's what I'm going for and hoping it lasts. I'm a constant quik-wax and spray detailer user because I always like my car looking it's best or so at least I thought. I am humbled by the work that I've seen across this forum which is why I'm looking in to better products and machines. I appreciate all the great information. Thank you.

 

[bbk11]

bbk11- Thank you once or I should say twice again for all the great information and links. I actually saw that video on youtube but I thank you for that too. There doesn't seem to be many videos on youtube besides what's on this forum. As far as the forum, every time I come on I learn something new. I love it.

Interesting about the BFWD being the same as BFCS just being more concentrated. Since I already ordered the BFCS I'll try that 1st for now. I'm really happy that it has the wet look aspect because that's what I'm going for and hoping it lasts. I'm a constant quik-wax and spray detailer user because I always like my car looking it's best or so at least I thought. I am humbled by the work that I've seen across this forum which is why I'm looking in to better products and machines. I appreciate all the great information. Thank you.

Your welcome...but, remember to use a wax remover before you apply the crystal seal, otherwise it won't bond really well to the paint (clean paint)...which you want for protection.

 

[bbk11]

bbk11- Thank you once or I should say twice again for all the great information and links. I actually saw that video on youtube but I thank you for that too. There doesn't seem to be many videos on youtube besides what's on this forum. As far as the forum, every time I come on I learn something new. I love it.

Interesting about the BFWD being the same as BFCS just being more concentrated. Since I already ordered the BFCS I'll try that 1st for now. I'm really happy that it has the wet look aspect because that's what I'm going for and hoping it lasts. I'm a constant quik-wax and spray detailer user because I always like my car looking it's best or so at least I thought. I am humbled by the work that I've seen across this forum which is why I'm looking in to better products and machines. I appreciate all the great information. Thank you.

Don't know if you saw this thread, but may be interesting to you...regarding BFCS

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...ire-crystal-seal-11-minute-paint-sealant.html