DA Polisher/Product Help Request

Both are similar, I have a PC like most here do. I don't really recommend it all that much because of the power issue. I have used the Griots it, will get you where you want to be only faster. So my vote goes to Griots.

I prefer a 5.5 pads, offers more control and precision.

So if I were you just starting out I would purchase 3 orange foam pads, 3 white foam pads, and maybe 2 black. I usually never go lower than a soft polish pad, because I prefer applying sealants with an applicator and waxes by hand, literally.

As for products, if you have to use a compound I suggest Megs UC, easy to use. For polish, which you will need, go with like M83.

I have both the Porter Cable and GG DA. HUGE upgrade to the GG. I had the PC for two years and a couple weeks ago I bought a GG on sale (got it for $94). I should have got the GG. However if you aren't willing to spend the money for the GG, then you should go get a Harbor Freight DA. It has more power than the PC. I returned mine once I found the GG on sale.
Oh and please pay for the HD model no matter what you buy for the longer cord. I really wish I had on mine every time I do a correction.

Get the GG6 and at least a DOZEN 5½" pads. Being as cost is an issue, not only do the smaller pads allow you to work smaller, more curved areas, but they are CHEAPER too.

Get 4 orange, 4 white, 2 black, 2 blue and work from there. You may need more black and blue ones later but that's a start. It's a fact that you can use the white pads on more paint, with more products (both compounds and polishes) and they'll likely be your most used pads. Not a bad idea to get 6 of them actually.

With the GG6 on sale it's a no brainer. Advance Auto Parts has it online and if you search around you can find a 30% off coupon that they'll let you use. (They WILL NOT let you use any discount on the 3" GG buffer though for some reason.) :dunno:

If you want a bare basic SMAT collection, I'd say D300, M205, UC and UP (might think about D302 for a extra fine cut polish) . That's going to get most anything done. If you really want to step it up for maximum cut you can get a bottle of M101, just STAY AWAY from M105 as it's not very user friendly, (especially new users).

You also mentioned you're thinking about microfiber pads/microfiber system. In that case, you need to get the Meguiar's Microfiber Correction System (in the 5½" size). It has a backing plate, 2 cutting pads, 2 finishing pads, a bottle of D300, a bottle of D301, and (as a freebie) a Meguiar's detailing apron.

There are two things you need.
One is to have plenty of pads, AT LEAST 4 if not 6 cutting pads of whichever color you find you need.
The other is to have plenty of microfiber towels.

Microfiber Tech has some very nice 360 GSM as well as 530 GSM towels for half what you'll pay for the same towel from a 'detailing' website. I'd say order 20~ 30 of at least the 360's and at least 10 of the 530's.

When you're compounding you can use 10~12 while wiping down the compound, then use 8~10 wiping polish, and finally... when you're doing your LSP, you'll have another 8~10 to use there as well. Using 5~6 towels can EASILYend up causing trouble when using them too long, too dirty, and on more than one type of product after you've spent a day or two buffing. Plus... it REALLY helps to have a decent wash load once you have finished a job.

You have been given some good advice, but no one has mentioned the paint on your fiance’s car. It really doesn't look that bad compared to many others that I have seen.

I would definitely start out with a lighter polish (M205/Ult Polish) and a polishing pad to see what results you get ... ALWAYS do a test spot and start with the LEAST aggressive method. It may turn out that a good polishing is all the car needs, not a compounding.

Good luck and have fun.

irish charm said:

Thanks everyone. The entire Corolla looks like it has a large cobweb, with smaller cobwebs inside the larger, for her car. I didn't know if compounding was necessary or just a swirlX product, I think. I'm having an issue deciding what pad and product combo to use as I really can't tell how to "read the paint". I just didnt want to buy products and start the project only to have to order more from autogeek and wait for shipping.

In regard to the Subaru, I put a light coat of megs liquid wax on a few weeks ago and though I dont think it's very much still on there, how would I safely remove it to apply a sealant and wax? Since I just purchased the car, I don't want to use anything heavy on the car, just literally apply a sealant and wax.

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How about we help you with the Corolla before we start schooling you on 'brand new car' detailing? :laughing:

Others could probably tell you 'how many of each pad' better than I can, but you should get some cutting and polishing pads (finishing/waxing pads are optional if you like applying waxes by hand) as well as a compound and polish just in case you need to go more aggressive than a polish. And don't forget the clay. Claying is an important step because it removes dirt and contaminants you can't see and will not come off with a wash. There are a ton of posts on claying (it's really easy to do) and others may chime in about it. This can be a very addictive hobby as you will find out as you go along

irish charm said:

Also, how does one change the plates on the GG? I see that the PC is almost a bit like a drill.

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There's a wrench that comes with it, sljps between the head and the back of the backing plate. It also has a spare pair of brushes for the motor, (the ONLY ONE I know of that sends extra brushes).

This is where its very very handy to have a backing plate for your 6.5", another for the 5.5" pads, and one for your 4" pads.

The pad and product combo is just one of those things that you will find (which works best) when you start doing your test spots. This is the reason that you absolutely need as many pads as possible! Honestly, I would get 6 orange, 6 white, 3 blue, 3 black, and 2 or 3 red.

Those pads will work with any combination of compound and/or polish whether that be SMAT or DAT. (Meguiar's or Menzerna.) Although, Meguiars does have a few DAT based products... but most of their stuff these days is SMAT.

The main difference between the two technologies is that SMAT tends to cut faster (if not harder) with FAR fewer section passes required to do so. Which is a catch 22 to some degree, because with the abrasives not breaking down they actually can get larger (the longer you work them) and if you try to work it too long you can end up micro marring VERY easily. (Because the abraded paint and spent product etc build up and you end up with larger particles doing the cutting in pass six than you had on pass one.)
Whereas if you were using a DAT based product the abrasive are continuously breaking down and working towards a finer finish with each pass as the cut becomes less and less.

Read through this thread...

Video: Mark your backing plate to make it easy to see pad rotation


Lots of info that you need.


:xyxthumbs:

Everyone seems to bash the PC because they think it doesnt have enough power. AG sells 3 times as many PC's than GG and gets a fraction of the returns on the PC. I have a PC and I have never had an issue with it not having enough power.

With that said, many have said the GG vibrates even more than the PC, not sure never tried the GG. The new Meguairs MT300 is a nice tool. If I was just starting out, I would start with that tool. Its the best compromise of smoothness, weight, performance and price.

As far as products...the Meguiars pads are supposed to be great. Keep an open mind on compounds and polishes, there are so many good ones.

And note, you might only plan on using the tool a few times, but the reality will be, once you have it, you will end up using it a lot more often than you ever thought.

Jaretr1 said:

Everyone seems to bash the PC because they think it doesnt have enough power. AG sells 3 times as many PC's than GG and gets a fraction of the returns on the PC. I have a PC and I have never had an issue with it not having enough power.

With that said, many have said the GG vibrates even more than the PC, not sure never tried the GG. The new Meguairs MT300 is a nice tool. If I was just starting out, I would start with that tool. Its the best compromise of smoothness, weight, performance and price.

As far as products...the Meguiars pads are supposed to be great. Keep an open mind on compounds and polishes, there are so many good ones.

And note, you might only plan on using the tool a few times, but the reality will be, once you have it, you will end up using it a lot more often than you ever thought.

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I love the PC. If I ever need more out of it I get the stiffest backing plate, and a stiff foam, or a microfiber pad, and get to work. That thing is my best friend.

Jaretr1 said:

Everyone seems to bash the PC because they think it doesnt have enough power. AG sells 3 times as many PC's than GG and gets a fraction of the returns on the PC. I have a PC and I have never had an issue with it not having enough power.

With that said, many have said the GG vibrates even more than the PC, not sure never tried the GG. The new Meguairs MT300 is a nice tool. If I was just starting out, I would start with that tool. Its the best compromise of smoothness, weight, performance and price.

As far as products...the Meguiars pads are supposed to be great. Keep an open mind on compounds and polishes, there are so many good ones.

And note, you might only plan on using the tool a few times, but the reality will be, once you have it, you will end up using it a lot more often than you ever thought.

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I loved my PC. I still believe it can do everything the others can for paint. Especially with the right pads.
I don't find the GG to vibrant more. It's the same as the PC if not just slightly better. The GG6 has the power to do glass polishing more quickly, it also has better low end torque; this allows the pad to keep rotating at lower speeds where it would otherwise stall on the PC.
I'm glad I have both now. The GG6 has a lifetime warranty so if it breaks I'll send it in to get fixed and still be able to keep using the PC.

Jaretr1 said:

AG sells 3 times as many PC's than GG and gets a fraction of the returns on the PC.

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Do you know this for a fact?? Have you seen the actual sales vs returns numbers???

I don't think you can beat the GG6 for someone just taking care of their own cars. Power Issues asside say you have it for 3 years and use it 5-10 times a year (if that) and it does break. With a GG6 you send it back to Griots and get a new polisher. If you had a PC in the same situation it would cost you about $80 at a minimum to have it repaired.

irish charm said:

I think I'm leaning more to the GG; from what I've read, I need a 5" BP and maybe a 3.5" BP as well. Is it possible to correct the swirls on the Corolla with just a polish instead of a compound?

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A test spot is the only way to say for sure.

This is why it's good practice to have both a dedicated cutting product / pad, and a dedicated polishing product / pad available. It will give you the versatility to have your bases covered in the event a polish is not enough, or a compound is too much.

This is what makes pad systems like Lake Country's Hydrotech nice. You have three pads: Cyan = cutting, Tangerine = polishing, and Crimson = finishing / waxing. Add Meguiar's Ultimate Compound, Polish, and Wax and you have your matches.

irish charm said:

Thanks everyone. The entire Corolla looks like it has a large cobweb, with smaller cobwebs inside the larger, for her car. I didn't know if compounding was necessary or just a swirlX product

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You're gonna need a compound for that.

You anywhere near Harrisburg / York PA? I could show you some polishing techniques / products etc. if you're nearby and interested.

Hi Alan - welcome to the forum:welcome:

There is loads of good advice given so far.

My thoughts....

About the first 50 or so details I did were all with a traditional free floating spindle DA with an 6mm throw and 500w - Over here in South Africa it is sold as a 'Shield' machine, but I suspect it is a re-branded Shurhold? :dunno:

Firstly, I have used UC and UP but not 105 or 205 so my thoughts are on the 'theory' side only.... but I have to agree with cardaddy

"The main difference between the two technologies is that SMAT tends to cut faster (if not harder) with FAR fewer section passes required to do so. Which is a catch 22 to some degree, because with the abrasives not breaking down they actually can get larger (the longer you work them) and if you try to work it too long you can end up micro marring VERY easily. (Because the abraded paint and spent product etc build up and you end up with larger particles doing the cutting in pass six than you had on pass one.)
Whereas if you were using a DAT based product the abrasive are continuously breaking down and working towards a finer finish with each pass as the cut becomes less and less."

If you are new to machine polishing I think the leeway provided by a DAT polish's longer working time works to your advantage. You don't have to have covered your working area 100% in 3 passes. Instead you have 8, maybe even more? Imagine a very concave panel on a newer car - when things feel new and while technique needs to be refined, then not having the pressure of having to get it right 'just like that'. Just remember that the cut happens hard early, tapers off, and then gets to the point where you can 'play' with it for many passes. I do think residue build up on the pad is something you need to manage properly too.

I am an avid user of the Menzerna Range of polishes - started off with them and have seen no need to move :buffing:

IME a good 'trio' is:

SF4000 cut 4/10, gloss 10/10
PF2500 cut 5/10, gloss 7/10
FG400 cut 9/10, gloss 7/10

They served me well from softer paints like Subarus all the way through to ceramic-cleared Mercedes and Audi's.

You just need to pair them with the right pads.

Smaller diameter will cut better, due to - my understanding anyway - less frictional drag therefore faster pad rotation and the same force (from the machine) being 'spread' over a smaller working area.

I don't think you need anything bigger than 5.5" to be effective... even though you may work smaller sections (and therefore take longer) using a 5.5" pad, whacking a 6.5" pad on there and asking the machine to really rotate the pad and engage the abrasives against the paint, I think is asking too much and so take just as long to get the paint right because you have to use an even slower arm speed with a 6.5" pad than you could with a 5.5"pad

I think flat pads are better and for that machine the Lake Country 5.5" Hydrotech's have served me well.

Cyan for cutting
Tangerine for polishing
Crimson for finishing

Admittedly the Cyan ones did fail earlier than the rest.

You can also look at MF pads which work well too although I have only played with the Meguiars version.

Then there is foamed wool (Purple from Lake Country)

Personally if I owner a Toyota and Subaru I wouldn't even be worrying about anything other than the Hydrotechs initially.

I can recall 3 Subarus that I corrected with SF4000 on a crimson pad.... Toyota may take a bit more - Maybe the tangerine and PF2500 - only a test spot will tell...

As to how many, the more the better. There is no such thing as too many MF towels or too many pads

Unless you are having to do heavy cutting which I don't think you will need to be doing (initially *maybe* but certainly not on an ongoing basis), then middle of the range (polishing) pads are what you will use the most of.... like the Tangerines...

A few cutting pads will be needed
Then lots of polishing pads
A few finishing pads will be needed

What 'lots' and 'a few' are to you is different to the next guy - let your budget and your situation guide you - but remember the less pads you have, the more often you will be stopping to wash/dry them.

Then you can also look at a 3.5" backing plate and some 4.5" pads... makes getting the smaller areas easier.

Best of luck and make sure to post up some pics of your progress on the cars in the Show n Shine section.

:dblthumb2:

ski2 said:

Do you know this for a fact?? Have you seen the actual sales vs returns numbers???

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I remember hearing this from an employee of AG a while back, might have been on this forum or an in person conversation. It came up in a conversation similar to this, discussing the pros and cons vs' the PC and GG. While Griots does offer a lifetime warranty, and their customer service is outstanding, more of the Griots machines were coming back for failures than the PC's, despite at the time the PC's far outselling the Griots machines.