Looking to bounce some ideas on technique/regimens.

olenderc

olenderc

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Hey folks,

I'd just like to get some perspective from other weekend/amateur/pro detailers. When doing 1 step (polish) or even 2 step (compound/polish) corrections, what are your time spent/required?

I've browsed multiple detailers' service packages just to gauge if my weekend warrior detailing is on par time-wise vs. professional/experienced detailers. I've seen some detailer's packages advertise anywhere from 8-12 hours for something like a two-step correction. Recently, while working on my friend's car, I was doing a two-step correction process (uber compound followed by finishing glaze). In the course of about 8 hours, I only manged to do the hood, both fenders and roof (front bumper was omitted because it was in really rough shape and needs a respray). I did coat with DP paint coating after each panel as it was my first time using it and I was testing it out; plus I knew I wouldn't be able to finish the whole car so I wanted to protect what I had already done. But that process didn't add an incredible amount of time to my regimen.

Obviously, I don't have top of the line tools like a Flex or Rupes polisher, which would probably cut down on time reasonably. I own a Griot's 6' DA, which to me has decent polishing power, but obviously is no Flex or better. Is there something I should be doing that could increase efficiency, it just seems like I'm taking an awfully long time.

Also, on the topic of technique, I often hear people with years of experience explaining that technique trumps the type of product used. What sorts of things go into developing effective technique, aside from practice practice practice? Does it have to do with the correct amount of pressure on the polisher to make sure you're not just aimlessly running a polisher over the paint? If someone could delve deeper into the topic/process of technique, I'd be very appreciative!
 
Explaining technique in text can be a daunting challenge because of a lot of different variables such as the so many different paint systems that are out there, the product choices that are out there and the different attributes that all of us possess as detailers.

To attempt to comment on technique and how to develop technique certainly forces me to take a trip back through my own past concerning the tools, products, pads and paint systems that I've worked on over the years. I must try to mentally revisit a lot of the pitfalls I've encountered over the years as well, because a lot of those pitfalls were a direct result of having not developed good techniques for working in certain conditions.

Coming from a "mobile detailing" beginning in this industry I was definitely faced with a lot of different circumstances where the environment I was attempting to work in was working against me.

It was in these situations where to say "I can't" just wasn't an option I was willing to choose, after all I was trying to carve a name out for myself in this tough ride that is "professional auto detailing". Folks call on professionals because others said they couldn't, or tried and messed things up, so to push on through every situation that I encountered was of the utmost importance to me and any success I would have into the future.

Technique to me is the act of manipulating processes against circumstances. Or another way to say it would be to try different machines, machine speeds, different size pads, different grades of foam or microfiber or wool pads, different amounts of applied pressures, different amounts of product on different sizes of working areas on the vehicle. Doing all of this while working with the same product so you can figure out how that particular product works best in the situation you're working in.

The tricky part of technique is that once you do figure out the best way to work your machine, pad, product etc. on the roof or hood of the vehicle you're working on, you may move on to another area of the vehicle and see circumstances change dramatically. In the mobile world this is the norm.

You work out your process under your canopy (if you have one) on the hood and then move on to a fender where the 5PM sun is shining in under your canopy and suddenly what you were having great success with on the hood isn't working at all on the fender. There may be the need to adjust any one thing like the amount of product applied to the pad, or perhaps all things need to be adjusted to obtain the results you're trying to achieve in this higher temperature area of the car.

Part of technique to me could also be to pull the garden hose out and soak that side of the car by flooding water down over the fender to completely cool it before moving on in hopes of, that what worked so well on the hood would also work on the cooled down fender.

I'm sure I could go on and on with thoughts about technique but I'll wait a little and see what other contributions come in from other forum members. This is a tough subject to comment on for sure... come on guys... what have you got for the OP?
 
Hi, I thought I'd give you my two cents on this issue. I'm a professional detailer in NC. Your results and time are definitely gonna depend on the conditions as briefly stated by Tuscarora (temperature, humidity, shade). Obviously you can't just start polishing a red hot car or one that's in direct sunlight, and a cold-as-ice car isn't going to respond well either. I always do my work in a garage and make sure the temperature is right.

The pressure on the machine is something you should definitely pay attention to. Too much and your DA will stop rotating and just vibrate on the car, not enough pressure and its just spinning on the paint not allowing the polish itself do its job.

One thing is the kind of polishing pad you're using. I use microfiber pads for compounding because they feel really good during use and they get the job done extremely well. Then i use foam pads for polishing/jeweling. I own a Rupes LHR 15 and let me tell you, i LOVE that machine. The Griots though is the best bang for your buck and its all you need for weekend jobs. As far as polish goes, i use Rupes polishes (which are great) and for an all around polish i use Gtechniq P1 polish (great stuff!!).

All that said it is mostly practice and a lot of time devoted to just studying the art of detailing. I hope this helped!
 
Oh, and 8 hours on a two step polishing job isn't bad if depending on the size of the car. I did a two step polish and then coated a car with Gtechniq C1 in about 10 hours, so that's not bad.
 
olenderc said:
Also, on the topic of technique, I often hear people with years of experience explaining that technique trumps the type of product used. What sorts of things go into developing effective technique, aside from practice practice practice? Does it have to do with the correct amount of pressure on the polisher to make sure you're not just aimlessly running a polisher over the paint? If someone could delve deeper into the topic/process of technique, I'd be very appreciative!
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There are the wise selection of products to match the types of paints and the types of machine and pads you'll be working with too. This all starts with a basic understanding of abrasives and hardness of paints and or whether you're working on base coat clear coat paint or a single stage paint system.

In developing techniques for "breaking down" an abrasive, it helps to have had some experience with both rotary polishers and DA polishers and even forced rotation polishers. Each one of these machines break down abrasives at a different rate.

Not only that but you have the hardness of the paint you're working on somewhat dictating how easily or difficult it can be to break down an abrasive down against it. A very hard paint like single stage white paint, or PPG Deltron, Ceramiclear might cause an abrasive to fully break down before a sufficient defect removal has been reached, causing a super glossy but lightly scratched finish.

On the other hand you could be working on an old school lacquer finish that's so soft that the abrasives actually remove most of the paint's film build before the abrasive is anywhere near broken down. Just imagine you buffing and buffing thinking "Geez, I just can't get this stuff to finish haze free." then all of a sudden you see primer slowly revealing it's ugly self as you're polishing away. A case like this might not have been a technique issue at all but rather a mismatch of product to softness of paint, or not adhering to the rule of least aggressive method first during a test section.

A technique I often use when working on single stage paints is to "work wet" or to add more product than what I normally would, and use a more oily compound than I normally would when working on clear coated paint systems. I find that working wet like this helps to produce more of a shine and leaves a more consistent look to single stage paints.

When working on highly oxidized single stage paints I use a more coarse open cell foam pad while working wet, or a wool pad in smaller work sections, spurring away the oxidation from the wool very often. this is all technique that was figured out on the spot, the test spot that is...
 
Time spent on a two step job can vary greatly, like what has already been mentioned.

Beyond conditions, how "detailed" a detailer is when polishing also makes a huge difference. Depending on the budget of the client one must decide how thorough to be when polishing.

If budget allows, you can tape every single body line, trim, tight area etc, and polish out every tiny detail of the car by hand and with 3" pads.

Sometimes I'll 1 step rocker panels, including bottom edge of panel, and inner lip of the wheel wells to save a little time. SUV and truck roofs must sometimes be 1 stepped or skipped depending on clients budget.

Think about how complex the average front end of a car is. The round, indented area around fog lights, sharp edges, license plates, etc. Do you remove the plates or not? These are all things that have to be considered.

If the money is right, one can very easy spend 10-15 hours or more (depending on the complexity of the car's panels) getting the paint to look right.

The biggest thing I've learned as a detailer is that it is difficult to get a client to shell out $400-$500+ to correct his paint. . . and wether most detailers will admit it or not, that's the kind of money it takes to do it right, or you might as well be paying the client right out of your pocket. Any less than that and you're getting bent over for sure.

You know why Larry Kosilla does such great work? It's because he charges around $100 per hour. Sounds like a lot right? It's not. That's what it takes for perfection. Even at $100 per hour, in the grand scheme of things, he's not really getting rich. It's not really much more than the average successful businessman, and it has taken him years and years of insanely hard work to get there, I'm sure.

I know that was a crazy long response, but it's such a complicated question that gets asked all the time. I could do a correction in 6 hours if I was skipping all the stuff that the average person doesn't see.
 
Thanks Dave, primedetailing, and Jeremy, I truly do appreciate the responses. I guess there is somewhat of a disconnect in my mind as to the level of perfection I seek when detailing my own personal vehicle vs. what a customer would expect. Detailing my own car I easily could spend 15-20 hours, but I would be polishing (likely two-step) to pretty much perfection (no single swirl/scratch on any panel, unless it's something I don't think I can safely remove), often checking every panel and angle with a Brinkmann.

How much "perfection" do customers expect. Like Mike always says, some people don't know the difference between a swirl and a squirrel :laughing:. I assume there are other people like myself who are "detail-oriented" and expect what I would expect from a detail and are willing to pay the 500-600+ price tag because they understand it will take 10-12+ hours. How would you describe your typical customer base? Are most happy with a 1-step polish that removes most swirls and leaves a decent finish or do you ever get someone who expects more but doesn't understand it will take more work and a lot more money for the extra time?

I appreciate the conversation, it's always nice to gain some knowledge from those much wiser, experienced and who have a true passion for and understanding of what they do.
 
Most of my customer base are in the $ 250- $400 range for cars and trucks so they get a really thorough 1 step and seal plus interior. Then I sometimes get the guys who are looking for all out custom corrections with wet sanding or whatever it takes to make the paint as perfect as possible. I tell them it's $50 per hour and it could take x amount of hours. I've done a few $2000 paint corrections with as much detail on the interiors included in that price.

Very rare to do these higher end jobs but every now and then I get someone willing to give me a blank check so to speak. These customers are strictly word of mouth customers.

Wish I could do those jobs all the time. They are my favorite jobs to do because I get to flex every detailing muscle I have and typically learn something new on every one of them.
 
olenderc said:
I appreciate the conversation, it's always nice to gain some knowledge from those much wiser, experienced and who have a true passion for and understanding of what they do.
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+1.

Never spoken with Jeremy or primedetailing, but Dave seems to have a certain Joie de vivre...
 
Now you had to make me go look that up didn't you. Thanks, I'll take that as a compliment. :-)
 
Quick question OP, not trying to be facetious nor condescending, but how many paint corrections have you done? Sounds like you're on track to developing your own methodology.
 
Vegas Transplant said:
Quick question OP, not trying to be facetious nor condescending, but how many paint corrections have you done? Sounds like you're on track to developing your own methodology.
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No worries, I've only done my own car (2013 Subaru) so not much in the realm of having some experience under my belt but I do a lot of reading on here and related detailing sites. I think I researched for a solid 6 months prior to making my first GG6 DA purchase and deciding what I wanted to work with and what I thought I would need. So I'm still fresh off the boat. But being that I'm a weekend detailer, as my full-time job as a pharmacist doesn't allow me to dedicate as much time as I'd like to, I try to learn as much as I can through other people's experiences. This allows me to build a larger knowledge base so that if/when I do encounter a particular situation, I'm equipped to handle it.

I'm also in the process of detailing my friend's (not sure on year; 5-6 years old) Nissan Maxima, so that's giving me a little more in terms of practice since it's not practically defect-free like a new car. Haven't had a chance to try it yet but I think I need to work the MF cutting pads a little slower based on some reading I've done here recently and people's experiences. I was buffing at anywhere from 5 to more often speed 6, where I think I may have gotten faster results at speed 4 or 4.5. I was still getting decent results but it might be a situation where I could hone my "technique" and achieve a better finish, faster and easier.
 
Thought I would weigh in too. When I first started my detailing business I took way too long to do a vehicle. I almost never finished a 2 step in a day. I'm much faster now plus I've come to know what my customers expect. I've also added an AIO clean, polish, seal (XMT360) to my repertoire instead of what I may have done with 2 steps before. The results are terrific. It doesn't remove all the swirls but removes most of them and every customer goes "WOW!" Heres my website: Fred's Mobile Auto Spa - Home.

Good luck
 
Well, i'm glad you found all the information helpful. And I wish you luck in your detailing "endeavors." But for real, there aren't many things I [or any other detailing lovers out there] would rather be doing than detailing a car. It's like the saying "If you are doing something you love, you'll go to work every day and never work a day in your life"
 
freddie46 said:
Thought I would weigh in too. When I first started my detailing business I took way too long to do a vehicle. I almost never finished a 2 step in a day. I'm much faster now plus I've come to know what my customers expect. I've also added an AIO clean, polish, seal (XMT360) to my repertoire instead of what I may have done with 2 steps before. The results are terrific. It doesn't remove all the swirls but removes most of them and every customer goes "WOW!" Heres my website: Fred's Mobile Auto Spa - Home.

Good luck
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Hmmmm. not exactly my favorite way of doing things. What you're saying is that you remove "most" of the swirls and scratches, but let the product mask the rest of them right? Well, all i'm saying is, those swirls won't stay
'masked" forever.
 
No disrespect though, if they love it, they love it. I'm sure you do the full corrections. [they do take a long time Lol]
 
PrimeDetailNC said:
Hmmmm. not exactly my favorite way of doing things. What you're saying is that you remove "most" of the swirls and scratches, but let the product mask the rest of them right? Well, all i'm saying is, those swirls won't stay
'masked" forever.
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...a swirl from a squirrel, man....

Don't give a client a steak for a hotdog price. It's not my favorite way of doing things either, but that's life.
 
statusdetailing said:
...a swirl from a squirrel, man....

Don't give a client a steak for a hotdog price. It's not my favorite way of doing things either, but that's life.
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True, True. most people don't really know what they're looking at... do you have any pics of your results? i've never used anything like that before. i'm pretty skeptical of XMT.
 
PrimeDetailNC said:
True, True. most people don't really know what they're looking at... do you have any pics of your results? i've never used anything like that before. i'm pretty skeptical of XMT.
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I don's use any glazes, but I uses AIO's like d151 all the time. I definitely do single steps more than multi step paint correction.

Most of my photography is of my best work, which is usually multistep paint correction.

I honestly believe that my single step and many of the other AG member's single steps and AIO's are probably better than the average production shops "multi step" paint corrections.

Normally what I'm going for is to remove contaminants by claying and increase the shine with a light polish. Paint correction is usually reserved for people who really love their cars and will at least take a few basic steps to maintain the finish.

Heavy paint correction really isn't a good idea on most daily drivers imo. They'll just destroy their paint and come back 6 months to a year later with the same problem. Year after year of heavy paint correction won't leave much paint on the vehicle.

It's the same reason, I and most of the members here won't wet sand a daily driver. It just leaves the paint more vulnerable.
 
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