Called For Insurance Quote - Can't Cover Me

erichaley

erichaley

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I called my insurance company the other day to get a quote for business liability and garage keepers insurance.

After contacting their underwriters to get more information, the agent called me back and said that, because I am home-based, they wouldn't cover any painting or paint-related work.

I explained that I wouldn't be doing any painting, and that I was concerned about the "paint-related" bit. They seemed to think that it meant work done in preparation for painting.

I went on to explain that I do some occasional wet sanding, but I don't do any prep work. The agent said they'd have to check with their underwriters and get back to me.

A while later I received a voicemail from the agent, and their underwriters said that sanding would also be excluded.

Thinking about it a bit, does this mean they wouldn't cover any detailing business? After all, any sort of compounding or polishing could technically be considered sanding since abrasives are being used.

Obviously I am not going to go and try to convince this company to write a policy, I just thought you all would find this interesting, if not shocking.

Anyone else have a similar experience?
 
My insurance agent did specifically ask if any painting was done as a part of my business, and I explained that I did not offer any painting services or anything in that realm of work, simply detailing. I explained that I polished cars and that I was specifically worried about having coverage in the event that something were to happen to the vehicle during polishing. She assured me that I was covered and my policy states the following:

My Insurance Policy said:
"Type of business: Automobile Service Shops: Air Conditioning, Accessory Installation, Audio & Video Equipment Installation, Battery, Detailing - not paint shop, Glass Sales & Service, Oil Change Shops, & Wheel Aligning & Balancing"
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^I guess that is a general category that State Farm uses for automotive related services other than painting/body work.
 
But where does paint correction fall? I know that we all categorize it as "detailing", but the insurance company may categorize it differently. Maybe they think that detailing only involves cleaning, not correcting... Maybe they classify paint correction as paint/body work. I certainly hope they don't!

FYI, the company is Farmer's Insurance.
 
erichaley said:
But where does paint correction fall? I know that we all categorize it as "detailing", but the insurance company may categorize it differently. Maybe they think that detailing only involves cleaning, not correcting... Maybe they classify paint correction as paint/body work. I certainly hope they don't!

FYI, the company is Farmer's Insurance.
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I wonder what Farmer's take would be on the following:

Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
4 General Automotive Surface Care and Appearance Markets


OEM Industry
That would be when your car is being manufactures and at some paint if their is a problem with the paint the car is moved off the assembly line to what is called a polishing deck and then "products" formulated for the OEM industry are used to fix the problem.


Refinishing Industry
This is your local body shop and custom paint shop, for example after you wreck your Honda the body shop installs a new fender and paints the fender to match the car or like Max, you take your classic Mustang convertible to a Custom Shop and a guy like Wayne Carini has his guys rebuild the car and then spray a custom paint job on it. These two types of business are the "refinishing industry" as they are "re-finishing" the car.


Detail Industry
This primarily includes "Production Detailing" but also includes Show Car Detailing, we have both types of detailers on this forum and they use products formulated by just about everyone.


Enthusiast Market
This is the guy that just wants to take care of his own stuff, he's a do-it-yourselfer. Often times the do-it yourselfer does as good of work as a Pro Detailer that specializes in show car detailing and even better work than you can get in the re-finishing industry and the simple reason for this is he cares about his car and thus his work.



There are companies that make products for just one category and companies that make products for a few categories and even some companies that make products for all 4 categories.


:)
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Bob
 
erichaley said:
But where does paint correction fall? I know that we all categorize it as "detailing", but the insurance company may categorize it differently. Maybe they think that detailing only involves cleaning, not correcting... Maybe they classify paint correction as paint/body work. I certainly hope they don't!

FYI, the company is Farmer's Insurance.
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The problem you're having is mis-communication. Nobody really knows what "paint correction" means except for us detailers. Tell them you are a car wash which involves cleaning, washing, polishing, and waxing. Anytime you're doing specialized work with special names and terms, you need to break it down in comprehensible language for the regular joes that don't know.
 
anonymoususer said:
The problem you're having is mis-communication. Nobody really knows what "paint correction" means except for us detailers. Tell them you are a car wash which involves cleaning, washing, polishing, and waxing. Anytime you're doing specialized work with special names and terms, you need to break it down in comprehensible language for the regular joes that don't know.

^^^:props:^^^
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An addendum to my previous post (#4):

Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
Articles by Mike Phillips


>>>Words mean things... just ask any Lawyer...<<<
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:)

Bob
 
Actually, I just got off the phone with the agent, and found out something very interesting...

They explained that their coverage of "detailing" includes washing the interior and exterior of the vehicle, and that any type of work to restore or improve the condition of the vehicle, such as polishing, is not covered.

I told them they might want to call all of the detailers they insure and make sure they understand this...
 
erichaley said:
Actually, I just got off the phone with the agent, and found out something very interesting...

They explained that their coverage of "detailing" includes washing the interior and exterior of the vehicle, and that any type of work to restore or improve the condition of the vehicle, such as polishing, is not covered.

I told them they might want to call all of the detailers they insure and make sure they understand this...
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Have you contacted an Allstate agent?

Wait a minute...
:idea:

AGO forum member Paul Mitchell may be of assistance.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/members/paul-mitchell.html


There seems to be some strange happenings going on.

:dunno:

Bob
 
anonymoususer said:
Tell them you are a car wash which involves cleaning, washing, polishing, and waxing. Anytime you're doing specialized work with special names and terms, you need to break it down in comprehensible language for the regular joes that don't know.
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While I'd normally agree with you on this, when it comes to insurance, I think its important to be crystal clear as to exactly what it is you're doing so that you know what is and is not covered... Had I just explained it like you said above, I could have ended up with insurance that wasn't going to provide adequate coverage.

There are times when speaking in abstract terms is best, and there are times when specificity is crucial.
 
There have been multiple threads related to "detailing insurance" and what type of coverage you are actually getting which has now got me thinking...

I'm curious, has anyone here ever successfully processed an insurance claim for burning through or otherwise damaging a panel while sanding or polishing? Perhaps many would not want to admit that they've made such a mistake... perhaps "someone you know" has had this experience?
 
Nicholas@Autowerx said:
There have been multiple threads related to "detailing insurance" and what type of coverage you are actually getting...
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Hi Nicholas...

Maybe you can help the OP out:
What Insurance Company do have for your Business?

Thanks.

Bob
 
As far as insurance is concerned, how are they to say "paint correction" is any different than "polishing". To me the terms are synonymous. Compounding is the same process as polishing but with more aggressive abrasives... if they were to say they allow you to "polish" but do not cover "paint correction work" then they would need to specify an exact list of products you are allowed to use etc etc... for instance, I just "polished" a car using a 'compound' last week, but I was not doing any severe correction work... the paint was just harder than most.

I understand about wanting to know exactly what you are being covered for, but it really sounds like the insurance company has no idea what you are talking about. I imagine they are picturing you going to town with some heavy equipment and making a mess like in a body shop environment. Did you direct them to your website to see more about what it is that you do?
 
Polishing isn't covered either under a detailing business policy. You'd have to, according to what they said, get a body shop policy.
 
erichaley said:
They don't even cover polishing.
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I know they didn't in your particular case, I was just speaking in general.

I would classify my work (to an insurance agent or a "average joe car owner") as premium detailing involving machine polishing to produce a clean and glossy finish. While I list my services as "paint correction" on my site... that is the same as telling someone I "polish cars" to me. It's just an endless circle of trying to explain things and insurance may take "paint correction" to mean something much more invasive than polishing therefore I would not use that exact terminology with them.
 
I specifically remember telling my agent that I want to make sure I was covered in the event that my buffer was to accidentally damage a vehicle... her response was yes, however that policy does not cover me if I offer any body work/painting work.
 
Mine is around $400/yr ($1,000,000 general business liability coverage w/ garage keepers coverage etc etc)
 
FUNX725 said:
Hi Nicholas...

Maybe you can help the OP out:
What Insurance Company do have for your Business?

Thanks.

Bob
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Bob, I wish I could provide a referral or more helpful advice to help the OP. I have called multiple insurance agencies in my state asking about how to cover my business. I have spent hours and hours talking with different agencies and brokerages and haven't found a policy that covers the types of things being discussed here other than a full garage keepers policy that would run between $3-4000/year.
 
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