:iagree:
This is what I try to tell people. As before, I think a lot of people get to the 'no beading' stage and assume that their LSP is stripped. As you can testify, beading can be recovered...
Are There Any "Bad" Shampoos Out There?
- Thread starter rouxster
- Start date
:iagree:
This is what I try to tell people. As before, I think a lot of people get to the 'no beading' stage and assume that their LSP is stripped. As you can testify, beading can be recovered...
Chris@AutoCleanse
New member
- Nov 3, 2012
- 1,551
- 0
Bought the miglories shampoo on buy one get one and the shampoo is terrible in my opinion. Tried it at many dilution ratios and for a 2 bucket wash it is awful.
Paul Mitchell
New member
- Nov 6, 2008
- 787
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I agree with Bill that stuff was hard to remove! I remember when I was in the service 45 years ago I used their polish and wax or whatever they called their two container system and it took half a day to put it on and take it off by hand on a 1963 Falcon.
aim4squirrels
Active member
- Nov 6, 2013
- 1,078
- 0
I have been using CG Maxi Suds II for over a year now as both my foam gun ammunition and for my 2BW.
I recently bought a gallon of DP Xtreme foam as I was told it foamed up better than the Maxi Suds II. Well, I've been on the fence on both soaps for the last 2 months. Here's what I've noticed.
I can get almost as much foam from 1 ounce of Maxi Suds II as I can with 2 ounces of DP Xtreme. But, if I use 2 ounces of Maxi Suds II, it foams more (obviously) but seems to mute the beading of whatever LSP I'm using.
Maxi Suds II is not very smooth when used in a 2BW. It's very strange that a soap can foam as well as it does, but feels pretty grippy in the wash mitt. I know a bunch of this stuff is subjective, but I've been using both of these soaps for 2 months, washing 2 cars every week, and I've experimented with lots of concentrations/dilutions of both soaps. I know what I know about using these 2 particular soaps. DP extreme works OK as a bucket soap, but the dilution ratios seem to use more product per bucket than the CG MSII.
But here's something that's not subjective: I have been using cheapo restaurant grade stainless 2 ounce ramekins from Sam's Club to measure the soap for my bucket washes and the MTM Hydro. Well, one day I tried to get a wash in for my garage queen before a rain storm. I got the hoses, pressure washer, foam cannon, wash mitts, etc. ready and had just measured the Maxi Suds II soap into a ramekin when the rain came. I turned the ramekin upside down in a dry bucket on top of my grit guard and couldn't get to the wash until the next day. Next day when I went out, the soap residue had dried in the ramekin, but it had left numerous rust spots in the ramekin's surface. Curious, I rinsed out the ramekin and removed the rust. I filled it half full with the Maxi Suds II, and an identical ramekin half full of DP Xtreme Foam soap.
The maxi suds again spot rusted the ramekin, and the DP Xtreme didn't do a thing, save dry out a bit.
I think the Maxi Suds II is pretty caustic stuff. It's unfortunate as it foams up like a dream using less product, but I get worried using something like that long term.
The DP Xtreme foams great as well, but I have to use double the product and it's triple the price of the Maxi Suds II, which really ups the price-per-wash.
If anybody has a good non-caustic alternative to Maxi Suds II, I'd love to know. Maybe if one of you guys have the CG Honeydew or Mr. Pink and could ramekin test it overnight, that would be sweet to know if they are better alternatives.
I recently bought a gallon of DP Xtreme foam as I was told it foamed up better than the Maxi Suds II. Well, I've been on the fence on both soaps for the last 2 months. Here's what I've noticed.
I can get almost as much foam from 1 ounce of Maxi Suds II as I can with 2 ounces of DP Xtreme. But, if I use 2 ounces of Maxi Suds II, it foams more (obviously) but seems to mute the beading of whatever LSP I'm using.
Maxi Suds II is not very smooth when used in a 2BW. It's very strange that a soap can foam as well as it does, but feels pretty grippy in the wash mitt. I know a bunch of this stuff is subjective, but I've been using both of these soaps for 2 months, washing 2 cars every week, and I've experimented with lots of concentrations/dilutions of both soaps. I know what I know about using these 2 particular soaps. DP extreme works OK as a bucket soap, but the dilution ratios seem to use more product per bucket than the CG MSII.
But here's something that's not subjective: I have been using cheapo restaurant grade stainless 2 ounce ramekins from Sam's Club to measure the soap for my bucket washes and the MTM Hydro. Well, one day I tried to get a wash in for my garage queen before a rain storm. I got the hoses, pressure washer, foam cannon, wash mitts, etc. ready and had just measured the Maxi Suds II soap into a ramekin when the rain came. I turned the ramekin upside down in a dry bucket on top of my grit guard and couldn't get to the wash until the next day. Next day when I went out, the soap residue had dried in the ramekin, but it had left numerous rust spots in the ramekin's surface. Curious, I rinsed out the ramekin and removed the rust. I filled it half full with the Maxi Suds II, and an identical ramekin half full of DP Xtreme Foam soap.
The maxi suds again spot rusted the ramekin, and the DP Xtreme didn't do a thing, save dry out a bit.
I think the Maxi Suds II is pretty caustic stuff. It's unfortunate as it foams up like a dream using less product, but I get worried using something like that long term.
The DP Xtreme foams great as well, but I have to use double the product and it's triple the price of the Maxi Suds II, which really ups the price-per-wash.
If anybody has a good non-caustic alternative to Maxi Suds II, I'd love to know. Maybe if one of you guys have the CG Honeydew or Mr. Pink and could ramekin test it overnight, that would be sweet to know if they are better alternatives.
There may be some terminology confusion. A shampoo should be a product which is pretty close to neutral and should be safe. It should do no harm to hands or skin and it should not stand a chance of damaging like you observed. If a product is like this, it is not a shampoo. Rather it is more of a pre-wash/vehicle cleaner/TFR - a class of products which is much more aggressive and more closely related to APCs.
swanicyouth
New member
- Mar 3, 2011
- 9,388
- 0
Went through a gallon of MSII and never noticed any type of corrosion. Of course, I just used it on my car and didn't do any testing with it. But, in a foam gun, Honeydew is superior.
Bunky
Well-known member
- Jun 20, 2007
- 6,427
- 148
It is hard to believe it is corrosion but wonder what it may be. I wonder if the residue is just attracting something that looks like corrosion. Do you have any pics?
FUNX650
New member
- Dec 1, 2010
- 21,057
- 1
The way I look at this is:
Cheapo SS may be one of the definitive statements.
-SS is not always corrosion proof. Corrosion resistant would seem to be a better term.
There are different "grades/types" of SS...each with their own degree of corrosion resistance.
-The SS-grades having carbon added as a hardener (and are magnetic, to a degree)
and are more susceptible to corrosion.
Also:
If the SS cladding of the ramekins has been compromised (such as: scratches),
that will definitely allow an opportunity for corrosion to take place.
-One other factor are the shampoos themselves.
The salts'-level/concentration of one may be higher than another.
Salts can cause shampoos to "foam up like a dream".
Salts can also be a cause of corrosion.
The SS-qualities of the ramekins can be a determinate of its ability
to resist corrosion from substances...such as 'salts'.
Thoroughly, and completely rinseing all shampoo residues
away from all vehicle surfaces can not be stressed enough...IMHO!!
One more corrosion-factor:
Rainy weather/humidity: Speeds-up any corrosion process.
And:
Not to be an unthankful dinner guest at your home...
But I believe I would have to pass on the crème brûlée.
Bob
aim4squirrels
Active member
- Nov 6, 2013
- 1,078
- 0
I'm pretty sure both products are labeled as a shampoo or intended for those uses. Though I have heard of using MSII in a higher concentration and it being able to strip LSP from the paint. I specifically try to stay below that concentration threshold as only once or maybe twice a year am I going down to the paint to correct or reapply a uniform coat of fresh sealant. Usually, I let the clay do the work of stripping.
Sure, I can probably snap up some pics tonight. I still have that ramekin in the garage somewhere. If not, I have plenty of both soaps left and it would be an easy experiment to recreate. Might have to wait until after Thanksgiving though. My wife would flip if I ignored the family for a "@#%&ing car forum." Maybe I should let them sit for the entire 4-5 days and see what develops...
The way I look at this is:
Cheapo SS may be one of the definitive statements.
-SS is not always corrosion proof. Corrosion resistant would seem to be a better term.
There are different "grades/types" of SS...each with their own degree of corrosion resistance.
-The SS-grades having carbon added as a hardener (and are magnetic, to a degree)
and are more susceptible to corrosion.
Also:
If the SS cladding of the ramekins has been compromised (such as: scratches),
that will definitely allow an opportunity for corrosion to take place.
-One other factor are the shampoos themselves.
The salts'-level/concentration of one may be higher than another.
Salts can cause shampoos to "foam up like a dream".
Salts can also be a cause of corrosion.
The SS-qualities of the ramekins can be a determinate of its ability
to resist corrosion from substances...such as 'salts'.
Thoroughly, and completely rinseing all shampoo residues
away from all vehicle surfaces can not be stressed enough...IMHO!!
One more corrosion-factor:
Rainy weather/humidity: Speeds-up any corrosion process.
And:
Not to be an unthankful dinner guest at your home...
But I believe I would have to pass on the crème brûlée.
Bob
I do know about the different grades of SS. These are undoubtedly the lowest of the low, probably earning the term stainless steel on a technicality of legal wording only, like my first set of steak knives.
The fact remains that the CG Maxi Suds II stained where the DP Xtreme did not. What caused it: acidity, salts, extra water content, etc., I do not know.
Oh, and as I have no idea how to make a crème brûlée, you'd be just as well off to pass on it anyhow, LOL.
HateSwirls
New member
- Jun 24, 2013
- 3,632
- 0
I know when one is crap after washing the car, terrible water spots that's hard to remove.
Cheap soaps don't rinse off well.
Turtle Wax Car Soap is pretty bad.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using AG Online
Cheap soaps don't rinse off well.
Turtle Wax Car Soap is pretty bad.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using AG Online
FUNX650
New member
- Dec 1, 2010
- 21,057
- 1
You've probably already seen this...(But what the Hey):
1. a.)
From Chemical Guys web-site:
Maxi-Suds II Super Suds Car Wash Shampoo
Specifications
-Part Number: CWS_101
-UPC: 816276011400
-Size: 1 gallon (128 ounces)
-Top: Locking childproof cap
-Dilution: 1 ounce to 1-2 gallons of water
-Scent: Cherry
-Color: Hot pink
-Gloss Enhancer: Yes
Wax: No
-Foam: Medium
-Wax/Sealant safe: Yes
-Works in foam gun: Yes
-Slickness level: Medium
-pH balanced: Yes<<<<>>>><...implies that it should not be acidic: Got any "ph test-strips" to make sure?
-Safe for light color cars: Yes
-Safe for dark color cars: Yes
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
1.b.)
DP Xtreme, per AGO store's product description:
"Though it contains effective cleaning agents, Detailer’s Pro Series Xtreme Foam Formula
is is pH-balanced to retain the existing paint protection".
I draw the same conclusion of it not being "acidic", as CG's above.
Test strips, again, to the rescue/confirmation, or not.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
2.)
Next on the list is to find out what agents/chemicals in these two product's formulations that makes them have:
Extra/extreme foaming qualities...and how much (%-wise) of these agents are present in each product, respectfully.
-Are salts foaming agents?
-Water conditioners?
-Gloss enhancers?
-Other "enhancers", etc.?
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
3.)
Would "extra water content" be a factor...
if a car shampoo-product is suitable for being diluted ?
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Editorial/Opinions:
-How can we obtain MSDS's for these products...Or:
Do we have to send samples of each product to a lab for reverse engineering?
-If I had any SS materials/parts/trim on a vehicle of mine...
It appears that I may have to forgo certain car-wash shampoos.
Of course: This may just be me.
Bob
aim4squirrels
Active member
- Nov 6, 2013
- 1,078
- 0
So, here's the pictures of the ramekin, it was actually sitting upside down on the lid of the gallon jug of CG Maxi Suds II:
Notice all the pox marks in the ramekin. That's actually a little blurble of maxi suds that's pink in the photo along the rim. Here's another view, and though it might be hard to see, under that pink is the heaviest concentration of rust:
And another:
As I mentioned, this ramekin is labeled as stainless steel, albeit a cheap model. The ramekin was turned upside down in a dry bucket on top of a grit guard so the product would drain out. That particular bucket never made it out into the rain that day, I left it in the garage upside down in the bucket for a couple of days. The entire ramekin was well coated on the inside with a dried maxi suds residue when I got back to it a few days later. The soap in the bottom of the bucket was also dried out as well, which leads me to believe there is some water, even though it is highly concentrated.
I tried a similar experiment with the DP xtreme foam soap, and this didn't happen with that particular soap.
Just kind of makes me wonder exactly what is in that CG maxi suds soap.
Notice all the pox marks in the ramekin. That's actually a little blurble of maxi suds that's pink in the photo along the rim. Here's another view, and though it might be hard to see, under that pink is the heaviest concentration of rust:
And another:
As I mentioned, this ramekin is labeled as stainless steel, albeit a cheap model. The ramekin was turned upside down in a dry bucket on top of a grit guard so the product would drain out. That particular bucket never made it out into the rain that day, I left it in the garage upside down in the bucket for a couple of days. The entire ramekin was well coated on the inside with a dried maxi suds residue when I got back to it a few days later. The soap in the bottom of the bucket was also dried out as well, which leads me to believe there is some water, even though it is highly concentrated.
I tried a similar experiment with the DP xtreme foam soap, and this didn't happen with that particular soap.
Just kind of makes me wonder exactly what is in that CG maxi suds soap.