2015 Ford Mustang

Glad you mentioned M3, as my brother on law had a 10 vert which I detailed and is on my page under customers car. Stock vs stock couldn't take the Shelby street or highway, went at it several times. I could have bought 2 Shelby's for what he paid for the M3.

M3 was constantly in the shop, windows wouldn't go up twice, radio broke, leather dye came off the seats and a few other things that really pissed him off. Shelby has never been in the shop for any warranty work, 4 yrs old in Feb.

Like others have said there is something to say about Stang that can hang with cars way out of its league.
 
Never thought I would say this - thank god for IRS. Indy Rear Suspension that is. The new 'Stang is nice and I bet the turbo4 will be crazy modified for rally/race. Lighter, on the spool - could be a true WRC car finally.
 
Cannot say I am a fan of it. The back end looks like it was kinda just thrown on in a rush; at least in my opinion. I also was not a huge fan of the changes on the 13/14's but they grew on me quite a bit. Hopefully the new ones will too.

I must say though that the interior looks vastly improved. Still not as nice as they could be (compared to how the Vette upgraded their interior) but these ones look quite a bit better than the one in mine (12 GT/CS).

I sure wouldn't mind seeing a TT V8 for the high end version.
 
Yeah, imagine an Ecoboost 5.0...O-M-G !

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anonymoususer said:
BMW M3 puts a smile on your face all the time with it's premium interior, excellent comfort, premium feel and relatively low NVH, excellent and confidence inspiring handling, and it's power in a straight line. Ford Mustang is like an on and off switch. The throttle is the happy face maker. Everything else pisses me off.
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The cheapest BMW M Series currently for sale is an M3 Convertible. $69,050 to START. That's about the same price as a Ford Mustang GT500 (5.8L Supercharged, 662 horsepower), WITH the SVT performance package that includes track-inspired brakes, tires, and suspension. In other words, nearly the most expensive Mustang you can buy directly from Ford. Cost wise, it's also similar to what Shelby will do to your Ford Mustang GT with the 5.0L engine (including the cost of the car), with a couple of their models.

So comparing a well optioned GT500 convertible to an M3 I get, but again- this is a car with a base price of $21k! You can have a 400+ horsepower V8 and brembo brakes for under $30k! I just don't think it's fair to compare it to the likes of the higher end BMW's, et al. Not at ALL saying the Mustang doesn't have it's shortcomings- but I think it's european styling is going to our heads and we're forgetting what it really is.

Just curious (and you very well may have) have you driven a GT500, or a Boss 302, or a Laguna Seca, or one of the other $55~$70k Mustangs that are more 'track oriented' (and priced more similarly to the BMW M Series?). Just curious if you found them to be just as inferior- I don't know- I've driven neither an M3 NOR a high end Mustang. So I'm just curious. I do enjoy driving a Mustang- but it's definitely inferior performance wise and tech wise to a LOT of cars on the road today. Doesn't mean it's still not fun. The other thing is, a Mustang is still a capable daily driver. Something you can own for 10 years and put 200,000 miles on. A V6 or GT/GT Premium's brakes will last far longer than most other sports cars, as will the tires, engine, transmission, clutch, and other components. Again- an entirely different class of sports car, really. Now you can daily drive an M3, or even a Porsche 911 for that matter. But the cost of ownership is much, much higher than that of a Mustang (though the cost of ownership of a GT500 or similar is much higher than a V6/GT).

My $0.02 anyway. I think there are a lot of great cars out there today. But I think we're getting a little carried away if we're calling it a bad car because it doesn't compete with the M3. My Focus is comfortable and peppy- but should I call it junk because it doesn't compete with the Bentley Continental GT? Okay- that's a bit of an exaggeration. BUT, it would be like comparing my SE Sport Focus (not the ST model or even the Titanium trim level) to an Impreza STi or something else like that. Far different price, market, and performance. Again- there's a lot of cars called "Ford Mustang" and while they all look the same- they are pretty different. The GT500 will hit 200mph on a track, the V6 model will hit 30mpg on the highway!
 
I'm not saying anyone here has really done it but Motor Trend and the other car mags did when the new 5.0 Coyote came in the new GT, that's for sure. You've got 2 different people buying 2 different cars, there's just NO comparison all, kinda like the 911 and Corvette buyer, 2 different cars for 2 different people. I know an example of "junk" M3 was brought up but let's be serious here, the car doesn't have that rep, neither does the Stang and at the end of the day one will hold its value better and one will not, just sayin'. No question about cost of ownership down the road, can't argue that one but the M division has been doing their thing since the late 70's and finally doing production M cars in the mid 80's, Ford doesn't have a division like that, they tried but failed w/ SVT, trust me, I know. I say this because I had a 2000 Contour SVT, a car compared to an M3, believe it or not but it just wasn't. They had the Mondeo ST200 to model the car after but didn't quite do that, not to mention a 3.0L DOHC 24 valve engine to use instead of the 2.5L, bigger engine in a sedan weighing 3200+ lbs, sounds like a no-brainer to me but no. Same thing with wheels, 16's over 17's and smallish brakes. Its like they (SVT) had the ingredients and cooks but didn't bring everything together. Then they had the Focus SVT, great everything but only 170 hp, a little short once again. SVT only lasted 10 yrs or so and went away as a legit division, too bad they didn't have their SH!T together or they might have a line of cars with a solid rep by now. Let's hope ST has learned the lessons lost by SVT here in the states.

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Klasse Act said:
SVT only lasted 10 yrs or so and went away as a legit division, too bad they didn't have their SH!T together or they might have a line of cars with a solid rep by now.

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You mean this in respect to cars specifically, right? Like cars designed to compete with European tuners, I use the term tuners loosely.

Otherwise I know a few Cobra, Lightning, and Raptor owners that would beg to differ about SVT not being legit. :laughing:

I mean, they did kind of the terminate the Camaro with the "Terminator" Cobra's.;)
 
Meticulous-Detail said:
Glad you mentioned M3, as my brother on law had a 10 vert which I detailed and is on my page under customers car. Stock vs stock couldn't take the Shelby street or highway, went at it several times. I could have bought 2 Shelby's for what he paid for the M3.

M3 was constantly in the shop, windows wouldn't go up twice, radio broke, leather dye came off the seats and a few other things that really pissed him off. Shelby has never been in the shop for any warranty work, 4 yrs old in Feb.

Like others have said there is something to say about Stang that can hang with cars way out of its league.
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I have an 08 M Roadster and it never needed a single repair. Nothing. Not a check engine light, not a bad coil, nothing. It's the most reliable car I've owned.

The Mustangs look pretty nice, but there is like a zillion of them on the roads. Same with the STI/WRXs. Once I start seeing them everywhere I loose interest.

IMHO SVT/STI/AMG all wan to be BMW M. Except, they can't help chasing after the almighty dollar and making a zillion cars with their name on it. Just my opinion.
 
Chris's FX4 said:
You mean this in respect to cars specifically, right? Like cars designed to compete with European tuners, I use the term tuners loosely.

Otherwise I know a few Cobra, Lightning, and Raptor owners that would beg to differ about SVT not being legit. :laughing:

I mean, they did kind of the terminate the Camaro with the "Terminator" Cobra's.;)
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The Raptor says SVT on it but there really isn't an SVT brand anymore, they went away in what, 2005 or so. The Cobra is "legit" for sure, as were the Lightnings but you don't wanna water things down here, right? Top Gear had a Lightning on the show and well, let's just say it wasn't very flattering to say the least.

I agree with Swanicyouth, too many factory tuners running around, dime a dozen, M cars are special and always will be. Case in point, mid 80's M5's and M6's were very expensive (mid $50k) when new but offered unparelled driving dynamics and really had no equal, especially domestic and are worth good money today. I just hate the comparison between Mustang GT and M cars, please, quit it, LOL!

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I for one will be holding on to my Shelby GT500. The car is a national show winner, Shelby has passed and the GT500 is out of production. The Shelby also retains it's value very well and I don't see many of them around. Car gets a ton of attention from all walks of life, especially young kids.
 
Svt is still around. Never went anywhere.

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Klasse Act said:
The Raptor says SVT on it but there really isn't an SVT brand anymore, they went away in what, 2005 or so.
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How so? Because the only one that actual says SVT on the exterior is the Raptor? SVT is also responsible for the Ford GT and the current GT500.

SVT has just become so intertwined with Ford Racing and Roush since they all work so closely with each other.

The new camouflaged 2015+ GT500's or GT350's have been spotted several times leaving SVT's facilities and SVT is supposedly taken control of the new Cobra or GT350, whatever they're going to call it. Shelby has quit production on the GT350 so that could be some clue to this.

Oh, and this was at the SVT facility last January.

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Chris's FX4 said:
Different engineered purpose cars. For one to come close to beating the other with a far less advanced chassis and suspension is a win in my book.

And again, it's all about ones preferences.
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Different engineered purpose cars? Or is the Ford Mustang an inferior engineered car?

It has a purpose built track suspension with adjustable front and rear dampers and Brembo brakes.

Lets get a purpose built track suspension on the BMW M3 with Brembo brakes and see who wins.

Anyway, we're arguing about a car that no one here owns...

:dblthumb2:
 
Meticulous-Detail said:
Glad you mentioned M3, as my brother on law had a 10 vert which I detailed and is on my page under customers car. Stock vs stock couldn't take the Shelby street or highway, went at it several times. I could have bought 2 Shelby's for what he paid for the M3.

M3 was constantly in the shop, windows wouldn't go up twice, radio broke, leather dye came off the seats and a few other things that really pissed him off. Shelby has never been in the shop for any warranty work, 4 yrs old in Feb.

Like others have said there is something to say about Stang that can hang with cars way out of its league.
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When i buy a car, i don't only buy straight line speed. Please refer to my quote below from page 8:

anonymoususer said:
BMW M3 puts a smile on your face all the time with it's premium interior, excellent comfort, premium feel and relatively low NVH, excellent and confidence inspiring handling, and it's power in a straight line. Ford Mustang is like an on and off switch. The throttle is the happy face maker. Everything else pisses me off.
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When I bought my Contour SVT back in 2000 the window sticker said it was an SVT vehicle and came with a certificate of authenticity as well, there was even an 800 number if you had any questions as well. I'm sure the Cobra and Lightnings got the same treatment, this tells me it was a "legit" product sold by Ford/SVT. I see there's an actual SVT something or another there but its not marketed like it was back in the 90's/early 2000's I guess.

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Romans5.8 said:
The cheapest BMW M Series currently for sale is an M3 Convertible. $69,050 to START. That's about the same price as a Ford Mustang GT500 (5.8L Supercharged, 662 horsepower), WITH the SVT performance package that includes track-inspired brakes, tires, and suspension. In other words, nearly the most expensive Mustang you can buy directly from Ford. Cost wise, it's also similar to what Shelby will do to your Ford Mustang GT with the 5.0L engine (including the cost of the car), with a couple of their models.

So comparing a well optioned GT500 convertible to an M3 I get, but again- this is a car with a base price of $21k! You can have a 400+ horsepower V8 and brembo brakes for under $30k! I just don't think it's fair to compare it to the likes of the higher end BMW's, et al. Not at ALL saying the Mustang doesn't have it's shortcomings- but I think it's european styling is going to our heads and we're forgetting what it really is.

Just curious (and you very well may have) have you driven a GT500, or a Boss 302, or a Laguna Seca, or one of the other $55~$70k Mustangs that are more 'track oriented' (and priced more similarly to the BMW M Series?). Just curious if you found them to be just as inferior- I don't know- I've driven neither an M3 NOR a high end Mustang. So I'm just curious. I do enjoy driving a Mustang- but it's definitely inferior performance wise and tech wise to a LOT of cars on the road today. Doesn't mean it's still not fun. The other thing is, a Mustang is still a capable daily driver. Something you can own for 10 years and put 200,000 miles on. A V6 or GT/GT Premium's brakes will last far longer than most other sports cars, as will the tires, engine, transmission, clutch, and other components. Again- an entirely different class of sports car, really. Now you can daily drive an M3, or even a Porsche 911 for that matter. But the cost of ownership is much, much higher than that of a Mustang (though the cost of ownership of a GT500 or similar is much higher than a V6/GT).

My $0.02 anyway. I think there are a lot of great cars out there today. But I think we're getting a little carried away if we're calling it a bad car because it doesn't compete with the M3. My Focus is comfortable and peppy- but should I call it junk because it doesn't compete with the Bentley Continental GT? Okay- that's a bit of an exaggeration. BUT, it would be like comparing my SE Sport Focus (not the ST model or even the Titanium trim level) to an Impreza STi or something else like that. Far different price, market, and performance. Again- there's a lot of cars called "Ford Mustang" and while they all look the same- they are pretty different. The GT500 will hit 200mph on a track, the V6 model will hit 30mpg on the highway!
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The GT500 is a phenomenal car, if you ONLY want straight line speed. But you would probably NEVER find a GT500 for $69,000 when you take into account dealer markup. But since everyone keeps bringing up price, if you really want the whole package you could buy a used Nissan GT-R with some money for mods, and eat GT500s for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. And throw a couple turns into the mix, the GT500 would be worth $100 in scrap metal.

If i want McDonalds, i'll go to McDonalds. Because for $5 i can get a Big Mac meal and get filled up. Why would i want to eat fine dining?
 
Meticulous-Detail said:
Glad you mentioned M3, as my brother on law had a 10 vert which I detailed and is on my page under customers car. Stock vs stock couldn't take the Shelby street or highway, went at it several times. I could have bought 2 Shelby's for what he paid for the M3.

M3 was constantly in the shop, windows wouldn't go up twice, radio broke, leather dye came off the seats and a few other things that really pissed him off. Shelby has never been in the shop for any warranty work, 4 yrs old in Feb.

Like others have said there is something to say about Stang that can hang with cars way out of its league.
Click to expand...

Sorry but I ran the PISS out of my 96 M3 - autocross, time trial and general holligan type driving, and I never had an issue with, not even once. And to say I drove it hard - I drove it like I had a lifetime supply of rubber and brake pads at my disposal. I have also owned a 86 Saleen Mustang, so I'm no euroSnob. Different cars, different times and even now - different cars, different markets, different desires.
 
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