Clear Coat Failure... timeline?

[Dellinger]

Greetings, Mike, and fellow contributors!

I'm versed in the identifying of initial failing/ failures of a clear coat/ base coat, paint system.

However, I have not owned, nor observed a subject vehicle where a specific "span of time" advances from the diagnoses until the detestable happens (think unsightly peeling.)

So... let's go hypothetical-- really hate hypotheticals, but they do have a place, unfortunately-- say, you notice minor crow's feet.
How long does a said paint system have left before it advances to the point peeling begins?

Understood, it depends on externalities being such:
- ambient temperature (extreme or average)
- regional climate
- care of failing paint system (presence of a LSP, or lack thereof)
- etc...

Can we quantify a rough timeline from these factors in regards to the "life" left before the clear coat has ultimately failed? (Note- I am describing 'ultimate' c.c. failure as the clear has lifted from the base coat and begins peeling. In my mind, once the clear has lifted and started to peel that is when protection no longer applies without question.)

I don't intend this to be a loaded question... as with anything automotive related... it's heavily subjective and somewhat relative.

It is just interesting information to me and I don't know an objective answer, even if such exists.

Thoughts welcomed.
-Gabe

 

[FUNX650]

So... let's go hypothetical-- really hate hypotheticals, but they do have a place, unfortunately-- say, you notice minor crow's feet.
How long does a said paint system have left before it advances to the point peeling begins?

Understood, it depends on externalities being such:

Can we quantify a rough timeline from these factors in regards to the "life" left before the clear coat has ultimately failed?

Just as you have mentioned "externalities" being factors...
IMO: There are also the "internalties" of a BC/CC paint systems to consider.

Quite often when CC-paint failure begins rearing its ugly head: as manifested in minor crow's feet;
the same, or other CC-paint issues, may also appear at different areas of the vehicle at a future date.

So:
Instead of hypothesizing on the expected life-cycle of any given OEM's CC-paints (being that there are hundreds or more)...
once CC-paint failure begins (or not):

I'd rather make a correlation between: The beginnings of CC-paint failure of a vehicle; the time line
of that vehicle's ownership by a person; and, with a future plan of action to either correct,
or not correct, the CC-paint failure during the ownership time period.

Personally I see no reason to start chasing CC-failure until a re-spray is warranted.
That re-spray could be for aesthetic/re-sale value, among others.



Bob

 

[Antihero47]

Good Topic. I polished the hood of my truck with a DA polisher about 9 months ago. Came out looking like good but had little imperfections such as big chips to primer. Its been a few months and just recently after a two bucket wash did I notice that I have big circles (look like enlarged water droplets) where the clear has came off. Looking further at the hood there appears to be a good amount of crows feet happening in the front where air hits it. I've not taken it to a hand wash or automated wash with brushes.

I've had the truck in 100*+ temps and down in freezing temps. I had a few coats of Meguiars gold class carnauba wax on it. I'm wondering if I should get it repainted or wait until its too unsightly. It was a used truck so who knows the prior history.

Here is what it looked like after polishing. When I get home I'll take pictures of the clear coat failure.

 

[bsmith0404]

As you have stated, there are many factors that will affect the timeline, but as a general answer, my experience is not long. A couple months from discovery to peeling/flaking. Once the peeling starts, it's almost line your skin after a sunburn, it just seems to spread. Even areas you didn't think got burned seem to peel, same with the CC.

 

[Dellinger]

I'd rather make a correlation between: The beginnings of CC-paint failure of a vehicle; the time line
of that vehicle's ownership by a person; and, with a future plan of action to either correct,
or not correct, the CC-paint failure during the ownership time period.

Personally I see no reason to start chasing CC-failure until a re-spray is warranted.
That re-spray could be for aesthetic/re-sale value, among others.

Bob

Bob, thank you for your thoughts and I agree with what you wrote. I believe the 'reverse engineering' or finding out the who, what, where, why, is probably best when trying to quantify and eliminate some variables of progressing c.c. failure. This is especially so for local/ regional vehicles a detailer may service.

As you have stated, there are many factors that will affect the timeline, but as a general answer, my experience is not long. A couple months from discovery to peeling/flaking. Once the peeling starts, it's almost line your skin after a sunburn, it just seems to spread. Even areas you didn't think got burned seem to peel, same with the CC.

Mr. Smith, good stuff there on your personal experience. Wow! A couple months is certainly 'rapid.' Could you divulge your whereabouts? If not... maybe by region? (NW, SW, SE, etc...)



I didn't want to get off into the weeds too deep... but maybe that's the only destination at this point?

I guess I need a better understanding of 'how' the substrate(s) of paint fail in a chemical and mechanical nature and their respective progressions.
And, can any sort of 'care' (i.e.- storage, climate control, LSP) prolong the damaged paint systems life?

Does anyone have a good link that describes this in depth? A white paper, perhaps?

My hope for this thread is to be able to understand and communicate accurately to my clientele and future clients when their paint is compromised. Not only will this benefit them in understanding but will also aid me in matching the best service for their need. I'm sure this is also important to many forum members as well.

 

[bsmith0404]

My personal experience with the CC failure was in Wisconsin, but I've witnessed similar results in the southwest, east coast, northwest, even overseas. IMO, once it breaks the bond and starts to lift, the sun baking on it, contaminates getting under it, you name it continue to work on it and it doesn't take long regardless of location. Keeping a good coat of wax will definitely prolong it as the wax will fight off the items I mentioned.

 

[Dellinger]

My personal experience with the CC failure was in Wisconsin, but I've witnessed similar results in the southwest, east coast, northwest, even overseas. IMO, once it breaks the bond and starts to lift, the sun baking on it, contaminates getting under it, you name it continue to work on it and it doesn't take long regardless of location. Keeping a good coat of wax will definitely prolong it as the wax will fight off the items I mentioned.

Just to clarify... what 'symptom' did you find before it progressed to the lifting and peeling? Thanks again for your experiences.

 

[longdx]

My beater 2001 GMC Sonoma (Black paint/ outside 24/7 in the varied temperature range that is typical of Maryland) has crow's feet on the hood/roof. It was that way when I came into possession of the vehicle 3 years ago. My plan of attack was using light polish initially and glaze prior to LSP. So far, no acceleration from the intial stages of crow's feet. The key for me is to keep the paint protected and resolve that these surfaces will never have full correction.

 

[bsmith0404]

Just to clarify... what 'symptom' did you find before it progressed to the lifting and peeling? Thanks again for your experiences.

This was with the blister looking white circles on a black vehicle that stayed outside.

 

[FUNX650]

I didn't want to get off into the weeds too deep... but maybe that's the only destination at this point?

I guess I need a better understanding of 'how' the substrate(s) of paint fail in a chemical and mechanical nature and their respective progressions.
And, can any sort of 'care' (i.e.- storage, climate control, LSP) prolong the damaged paint systems life?

Does anyone have a good link that describes this in depth? A white paper, perhaps?

Access to White Papers would perhaps be a Godsend in having a clearer understanding of the degradation
processes of polymeric materials...including the stressors responsible for Clear Coat (CC) paint failure.
That access, unfortunately, would be a: No-Go...on my part.

However...
For the purpose of providing 'links' to this CC-failure dilemma...My understanding is:
The OEM's, and their paint-manufacturer vendors, are reliant on tests such as:
Florida Weathering (Exposure) Test, Arizona Desert Weathering Test, SAE J2527, and various
Accelerated Weathering Tests that, in effect, emulate the Florida Exposure failure-mechanisms.

Testing "stressors" can include, but is not limited to:
Solar radiation, temperature, moisture, water, salt spray,
ozone, atmospheric pollutants, "acid rain", mold/mildew.

Hope this provides, if nothing else, a pointer to/in the direction of which you are inquiring.



Bob

 

[Dellinger]

My beater 2001 GMC Sonoma (Black paint/ outside 24/7 in the varied temperature range that is typical of Maryland) has crow's feet on the hood/roof. It was that way when I came into possession of the vehicle 3 years ago. My plan of attack was using light polish initially and glaze prior to LSP. So far, no acceleration from the intial stages of crow's feet. The key for me is to keep the paint protected and resolve that these surfaces will never have full correction.

Very interesting, LongDx, thank you for the information!

Access to White Papers would perhaps be a Godsend in having a clearer understanding of the degradation
processes of polymeric materials...including the stressors responsible for Clear Coat (CC) paint failure.
That access, unfortunately, would be a: No-Go...on my part.

However...
For the purpose of providing 'links' to this CC-failure dilemma...My understanding is:
The OEM's, and their paint-manufacturer vendors, are reliant on tests such as:
Florida Weathering (Exposure) Test, Arizona Desert Weathering Test, SAE J2527, and various
Accelerated Weathering Tests that, in effect, emulate the Florida Exposure failure-mechanisms.

Testing "stressors" can include, but is not limited to:
Solar radiation, temperature, moisture, water, salt spray,
ozone, atmospheric pollutants, "acid rain", mold/mildew.

Hope this provides, if nothing else, a pointer to/in the direction of which you are inquiring.

Bob

Bob, good stuff as always!

I knew there must be some SAE paper somewhere that speaks to my/ our intrigue or questions. However, like you, I'm not privy. BUT, I think you can pay for SAE papers, no?

Thanks again for your insights and "pointing" in a certain direction.