What next- my first full detail attempt

[DannyTexas]

So after reading through many post and how to’s on this forum I tackled my first real detail on my truck with moderate success.
I have a 2013 F150 in Ruby Red which is my daily driver although I actually don’t drive all that much. The truck is 1 year old and has 6K miles.
It is parked outside but under a large carport which is also completely fenced so limited exposure to sun. When I do drive it its typically to the airport to fly for work at which time its also parked at the terminal under covered parking.

So during the ice storms a few weeks ago in Texas the truck got really nasty from the salt and sand they applied to all the roads. It was too cold and wet to hand wash so I made a cardinal mistake and ran it through an auto wash which had brushes I didn’t see until my truck was already locked in the track that pushes it through the process. I know this was a stupid thing to do and now I’m paying for it. It will never see anything but hand wash again.

However once I ran it through I noticed it was scratched (swirl and brush marks) all over the clear coat. My truck is a beautiful Ruby Red and in direct sunlight you can see it most noticeably on the body panels that stick out the farthest where brushes did the most damage.

In an effort to repair I placed a $600.00 order with autogeek to get the products I researched about that could fix my issue.
I bought a Porter Cable XP DA
Pinnacle advanced swirl remover polish and Pinnacle advanced finishing polish
Several pads, orange, red, white, grey for the DA.
Clay bar and lube
Pinnacle black label surface cleaner polish and Pinnacle black label surface coating.
Also P21s Concors wax and tons of miracle towels and microfiber towels.

So the process I used was this
Wash and dried truck
Clayed the entire truck
Polished with orange pad and combination swirl remove and finishing polish. I used more aggressive swirl on bad spots and only finishing polish on not so bad spots.
I then applied PBL surface cleaner with micro sponge over entire truck and hand buffed off. Then applied PBL coating as directed over entire vehicle. Waited 24 hours and then waxed with P21S.
The paint is definitely shiny and looks good overall but when in direct sun I see marks I missed, There are still very small light scratches throughout the paint that are still only surface scratches (cant feel with finger nail and look like clear coat scratches). Now I would say its about 80% better than before but not perfect which I’m after.
I was nervous to polish too aggressively for fear of removing too much clear coat.
So now that you know the history here are my questions.
I plan to try again to remove the remaining swirl and scratches in March or April once we are done with winter in Texas.
Since I have correctly coated it with Black Label coating and waxed it what will I need to do to start polishing again now that this protectants have been applied?
Will aggressive polish and DA go past these coatings and wax and let me work on the scratches again or will I have to strip them off some how?
If I have to strip the coating off how do I safely do that?
To get more aggressive with scratches do I use an orange pad, more pressure and a more aggressive polish or simply use my Pinnacle swirl remover and keep repeating over the same area and until I know scratches are gone. How do I monitor not going to deep on my clear?

Once I have removed all the swirl marks do I simply clean again with pinnacle surface cleaner and reapply black label coating and wax as before? Maybe use Gtech EXO instead and a good wax. There is a pic on AG in the EXO page of a ruby red mustang that claims to only have a polish and EXO. This is my color and what I want my truck to look like.

And lastly what is the process once a vehicle is coated as far as maintenance. The Black Label coating supposed to last 3 years. Do I just wash and wax for 3 years and then do the entire process over again by stripping the old or just polishing with DA to remove the old and apply fresh again?

I apologize in advance for this very long post with so many questions but as a newby I’m getting confused with the a billion options there are for polish, wax, coatings etc…
I would like a simple plan I can follow with exact products to make my life easier.
Like.
Wash, wax, apply XYZ then apply ABC and I’m done for X amount of time.
If a paint is restored to zero scratches and you only handwash moving forward is polishing really needed again or just clay and coatings and wax?
Danny

 

[Evan.J]

So now that you know the history here are my questions.

I plan to try again to remove the remaining swirl and scratches in March or April once we are done with winter in Texas.
Since I have correctly coated it with Black Label coating and waxed it what will I need to do to start polishing again now that this protectants have been applied?

Since you will be polishing you will only need to start polishing. That will remove any protection you have on there including the coating.

Will aggressive polish and DA go past these coatings and wax and let me work on the scratches again or will I have to strip them off some how?

Yep the polishing will be aggressive enough to remove the coatings .

If I have to strip the coating off how do I safely do that?

No need to.

To get more aggressive with scratches do I use an orange pad, more pressure and a more aggressive polish or simply use my Pinnacle swirl remover and keep repeating over the same area and until I know scratches are gone.

Yes you can do a combination of this but I would do what has worked for you already and just increase the pressure on the machine but not so much as to stop the pad from spinning. Additionally slow down your arm speed as well. Make sure you do 6-8 section passes then check you work. Be sure to either use the sun or a bright light that will show off the swirls.

How do I monitor not going to deep on my clear?

With the amount of spear you remove when polishing with a DA you won't have to worry. Just keep the machine moving and don't generate too much heat.

Once I have removed all the swirl marks do I simply clean again with pinnacle surface cleaner and reapply black label coating and wax as before?

Yep you are correct!

Maybe use Gtech EXO instead and a good wax. There is a pic on AG in the EXO page of a ruby red mustang that claims to only have a polish and EXO. This is my color and what I want my truck to look like.

No need to for two coatings. Since you have the PBL stick with that. You can top with a sealant or the P21 wax like you have done already.

And lastly what is the process once a vehicle is coated as far as maintenance. The Black Label coating supposed to last 3 years. Do I just wash and wax for 3 years and then do the entire process over again by stripping the old or just polishing with DA to remove the old and apply fresh again?

Process would to be make sure to properly was and dry the vehicle by using the proper tool to keep the paint in the best shape possible. You can use quick detailers and spray waxes to keep up the protection after washes.

I apologize in advance for this very long post with so many questions but as a newby I’m getting confused with the a billion options there are for polish, wax, coatings etc…

No need to apologize! rops:

I would like a simple plan I can follow with exact products to make my life easier.
Like.
Wash, wax, apply XYZ then apply ABC and I’m done for X amount of time.
If a paint is restored to zero scratches and you only handwash moving forward is polishing really needed again or just clay and coatings and wax?
Danny

Only way to tell is if you are doing perfect washing, drying, and maintenance then you wouldn't need it but I would say just focus on what you have in front of you and then worry about the coating later. No telling what can happen but the best advice is do everything to instill an swirls back into the coating and paint


Hope that helps you Danny

 

[DannyTexas]

Hope that helps you Danny[/QUOTE]

Evan,
Yes, this was very helpful. Just what I was looking for. THANK you very much for taking so much time to respond to the multiple questions and comments.
Sounds like I just need to plan the time to go through the 10 hours of processes I just finished to get the rest of the swirls.
Perhaps my arm speed was a little too fast or pressure was not sufficient.

One last question. I'm not 100% sure on the value of the coating if using a good wax frequently. Not that I doubt what it does but its kind of hard to tell its value when paired with diligent waxing. If were to polish and remove my swirls one last time, and decided to by-pass applying the coating. Could I go straight from final polishing to waxing without having to apply the PBL cleaning stuff? Prepping for the coating add's another 2 hours on this big truck due to having to clean the surface before applying the PBL surface coating.
I'm wondering if I get the shine from the polish and the protection and more importantly good beading from the wax, wouldn't that be all I really need?

Many thanks!
Danny

 

[bsmith0404]

A couple questions: where do you notice most of the swirls that remain (random spots or more towards the end of your process)? The reason I ask this, many newbies (me included) try to take a pad too far without cleaning it or switching to a new pad. Once the pad gets saturated with product it is not as effective. I remember the first vehicle I did (entire car with one orange pad), my test spot was great, the first few panels good, the last few not as good. If you did a test spot and achieved the results you were looking for, you just need to carry that process throughout the vehicle. On a truck that size, I typically go through 5-6 of each color pad.

Everything else you listed does and will work.

As for the coating vs wax...all personal preference. I personally love detailing my own vehicles (gets me out of the house and keeps me sane) so I don't use coatings. I do use a sealant with a wax over top on my DDs and wax only on the garage queens. I prefer the look it produces. That said, I wax the DDs over the sealant every 1-1.5 months and hit with an AIO every 6 months (before winter and after). The garage queens get detailer sprays to keep clean and replenish the wax and a good wash/wax in the spring.

 

[DannyTexas]

A couple questions: where do you notice most of the swirls that remain (random spots or more towards the end of your process)? The reason I ask this, many newbies (me included) try to take a pad too far without cleaning it or switching to a new pad. Once the pad gets saturated with product it is not as effective. I remember the first vehicle I did (entire car with one orange pad), my test spot was great, the first few panels good, the last few not as good. If you did a test spot and achieved the results you were looking for, you just need to carry that process throughout the vehicle. On a truck that size, I typically go through 5-6 of each color pad.

Everything else you listed does and will work.

As for the coating vs wax...all personal preference. I personally love detailing my own vehicles (gets me out of the house and keeps me sane) so I don't use coatings. I do use a sealant with a wax over top on my DDs and wax only on the garage queens. I prefer the look it produces. That said, I wax the DDs over the sealant every 1-1.5 months and hit with an AIO every 6 months (before winter and after). The garage queens get detailer sprays to keep clean and replenish the wax and a good wash/wax in the spring.

Thanks for the reply. The swirls were the same ones that were there before I started although less of them and more faint. I don't think (newby guess) I introduced more scratches that were not already there before I started. However I did use only one orange pad for the entire truck. It was a brand new pad and aside from the polish residue it really wasn't "dirty" at the end.

The other thing I should clarify is these really are not swirl marks by definition. They actually are the same type but run horizontal on the sides of the truck. Its from the large roller brushes at the car wash taking dirt and just sliding down the side as the truck drives through the wash building. Like I said, this was done only once and lesson learned, hand wash the remainder of the trucks life.
I have a new pad ordered and I think with reduced arm speed and little more pressure I will be able to knock off the rest of what is left in the paint. Since it is now coated and waxed it may even take a little more effort this time around.

I like you enjoy being outside polishing on my truck so perhaps a sealant and wax combo is my best bet too.
Can I ask what "AIO" is?

Thanks again for the input and advice. After this first time process the trucks paint does pop better then when I picked it up from the dealer, I think it looks great. The marks left or only on the lower 1/3 of the door and side panels and are not noticeable to most people I would imagine. But I know they are there and it bugs me. Amazing how a 3 minute auto wash can take perfect paint and create 20+ hours of work. ha
Anyway, here is a picture of the truck after I was finished.
Danny

 

[bsmith0404]

I have no doubt that you did not add new swirls/scratches, my thought is that by only using one pad you did not effectively remove them. The pads get saturated with product as well as getting loaded up with removed CC, as they do, they lose effectiveness. It won't look dirty, but it will not work as well as a new/clean pad. The easiest way to see the effects of this is to look at the first panel you did vs. the last panel, there is probably a noticeable difference. As I stated before, a truck of this size usually requires 5-6 pads of each color. I would say a minimum of 4, cleaning the pad with a cleaning brush or a terry cloth after each (or every other) section. I can't even begin to tell you how many orange and white pads I have.

 

[vet]

The others have given you the advice needed, so I won't repeat it.

That's a nice truck! FX2 Sport?

I use DP Poliseal and top with Max Wax on mine. Usually ONR washes, and QD. I'll use a Megs spray wax once in a while if I don't have time to do another coat of Max Wax.

I'll go to a touchless automatic if my truck is really cruddy, or use the hand wand wash, but never use the brush in the bay. You're not the only one who's made the mistake of getting in a brush-type wash, so don't obsess over it. You learned a lesson, so chalk it up to experience.

 

[bsmith0404]

Sorry, forgot to answer your other question. AIO is All In One, such as Blackfire Total Polish and Seal.

 

[stilltipping3]

I think after u polish if u wanted to jump to a wax u could. But if u want to use a sealant than it would be better to make sure ur paint is free of oils and wax residues. I personally like 2 coats of Klasse layered and then a wax or glaze to top that. In between washes I super spray down the car every 3 days and quick detail it. This really keeps up the protection and my car is clean for as long as I want to continue u this. Usually rain will be a factor in when I wash with the foam cannon again. I think this is a good formula and easy to follow with great results for sure.

 

[aim4squirrels]

The problem with using only one pad, especially with a PC, is that as the pad gets used several things happen:

Pad gets loaded with abraded clear coat or single stage paint,
Pad gets loaded with spent abrasive,
Pad gets contaminated with bonded dirt or missed dirt that can introduce pigtails to the next section,
Pad gets saturated and softer.

The first three can be cleaned out of the pad on the fly (with progressively diminishing returns, as you don't get all of the spent material and dirt out) but the last problem can only be fixed with a new pad, or washing and drying the spent pad.

The problem with a wet pad is it reduces the mechanical work of the machine and the effort exerted by the detailer to supply downward force on the machine. The wet pad is softer and absorbs the force used to do the work.

On a PC, this is especially bad as the machine does not have a great amount of corrective force to begin with. That's why they are so safe to use by even an absolute novice. Dry pads transfer more of the work to the surface of the paint, and allow the abrasives to do their job.

 

[DannyTexas]

Thank you guys on the pad explanation, makes perfect sense.
I have sense ordered a 6 pack of orange pads and a few gray and white. The next attempt to remove the last bit of swirls should be much better with fresh pad for each panel.
Also I took your advice and picked up some blackice QD for after I wash and in between major waxes.

Its crazy how I've spent 40 years buying wolly world wax for $10.00 and "thinking" how I really take care of my trucks.
In 15 days on Autogeek I've spent almost $1000.00 on products and also obtained some awesome advice from you guys on how to use it. I should be enjoying one of the cleanest well maintained F150's in Texas for a long time.
Merry Christmas to all you clean freaks...
Danny

 

[bsmith0404]

Any updates on round two yet?

 

[DannyTexas]

Any updates on round two yet?

Any updates? Sure, its 16 degrees in Dallas right now so the truck is staying as is for the moment. ha
I did purchase 6 5.5 orange and 6 5.5 white pads from AG so I'm getting my supplies ready for round 2.
I think I will plan on late Feb early March to carry me through the summer and plus it will be bearable temps then.

On a side note I do have a couple of Jet Ski's inside my garage I was able to practice on. I used wolfgang swirl remove and 3" orange pad on my DA. Removed all water marks and most of the scratches. I then layered with 2 coats of Collinite #885 which claims to be for boats.
I also used the Wolfgang exterior trim sealant on all the rubber and plastic pieces for some added protection.
This really helped me with the DA to get a better feel for arm speed, pressure and the correct amount of product to use.

I realize these are gelcoat and not like my truck paint but its helping me understand the process and now my skis are nice and shiny for the summer.
Here are a few pics.

 

[bsmith0404]

The Jest Skis look great. Yes, any type of detailing will help with experience. I remember when I first stared, gained valuable experience on every job I did, still do. I'm sure you can't wait until Feb/Mar. If you're anything like me, you now notice every little imperfection every time you approach your truck (especially when you know they're there). As for the weather...I just cleared the car for my wife to go to work -30 wind chills. I'm originally from Wisconsin so I grew up with this stuff, but haven't dealt with it for about 15 years!

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Hope that helps you Danny

I can appreciate your replies Evan, that takes some time to dissect a post like Danny's using the quote feature in vBulletin.

:bowdown: :bowdown:


Great answers too...

The problem with using only one pad, especially with a PC, is that as the pad gets used several things happen:

Pad gets loaded with abraded clear coat or single stage paint,
Pad gets loaded with spent abrasive,
Pad gets contaminated with bonded dirt or missed dirt that can introduce pigtails to the next section,
Pad gets saturated and softer.

The first three can be cleaned out of the pad on the fly (with progressively diminishing returns, as you don't get all of the spent material and dirt out) but the last problem can only be fixed with a new pad, or washing and drying the spent pad.

The problem with a wet pad is it reduces the mechanical work of the machine and the effort exerted by the detailer to supply downward force on the machine. The wet pad is softer and absorbs the force used to do the work.

On a PC, this is especially bad as the machine does not have a great amount of corrective force to begin with. That's why they are so safe to use by even an absolute novice. Dry pads transfer more of the work to the surface of the paint, and allow the abrasives to do their job.

Great explanations and info...

In 15 days on Autogeek I've spent almost $1000.00 on products and also obtained some awesome advice from you guys on how to use it.

Thank you for your business and your trust. This forum has great members as you can see by the quality of the replies to your questions in this thread.

You just don't get this kind of help or support on most forums.


I downloaded two of your pictures and then uploaded them into your free gallery here on AGO...

Here they are "inserted" instead of attached....

 

[moeferg]

Danny Texas - I have a very similar truck...Ruby Red 2013 F-150. I used dodojuice orange crush wax with exceptional results. (that is after clay barring, light correction, then polishing...)

 

[DannyTexas]

I can appreciate your replies Evan, that takes some time to dissect a post like Danny's using the quote feature in vBulletin.

:bowdown: :bowdown:


Great answers too...

Evan did take a lot of time and effort to respond as did many others, very appreciated and helpful. I realized I asked like a million questions in a single post which highlights my noobiness.

Thank you for explaining how to insert pictures for a larger view vs simply attaching them. I couldn't figure that out as it is different from the other forum (F150forum.com) I frequent.
Another thing I want to learn is how to add text above each picture when posting multiple pics. I'll play around and see how it works.

I'm also going to research the Vbulletin multi-level quote thing as I've wanted to know how to do what he did.
Cheers to all.
D2

 

[DannyTexas]

Picture Test (Thanks to Mike)

My two Babies

 

[DannyTexas]

Danny Texas - I have a very similar truck...Ruby Red 2013 F-150.

Very nice truck you have there, you have great taste!

I used dodojuice orange crush wax with exceptional results. (that is after clay barring, light correction, then polishing...)

Thank you for your personal advice on your Ruby Red. These colors are amazing in real life. I have always been a solid black or red kinda of car guy. When I went to buy the black FX4 the Ruby on the lot just jumped out at me for being different from the rest of the F150's you see running around.
I love how the light changes the actual shade of red depending on the angle. Like my last post with the two pictures they were taken at the same time from different angles. Looks like two different colors of red.
I think Ford calls this Tri-Color Metallic with tinted clear coat....whatever that means.
Thanks again friend.
Danny

 

[DannyTexas]

After the Jet Ski practice I decided to work on my 16 year old daughters car I bought her.
Its a 2008 and this color of red really shows marring and swirls.

I used the advice from Evan and others and had much better success with this job.
Although I only polished and waxed hers...no Black Label Coating.
I think its best, as someone already stated, to focus on perfecting my polish technique before worrying too much about coatings.
By the time Feb-March gets here I will be able to tackle my truck a second time and hopefully have it come out completely void of the auto brush devil car wash scratches that started all this.
That $10.00 auto wash on my truck has cost me over $1200.00 now from AG. I'm hooked!!!!!!!