Black Label surface coating, what's going on here?

Your Challenger looks great! I hope it cured properly and lasts. I'm another enthusiast if you need to talk to someone local. I'm in North Dallas. :xyxthumbs:
 
IMO def. the temps are the issue. I wanted to coat my vehicles before the winter but had to many details to do and couldn't get to my own vehicles, so they got DG 501/601 for the winter. I am waiting till the spring to apply the coatings.

Orange tuff shine applicator sponges are also a good choice for applying coatings as they do not absorb too much product and spread evenly.
 
cardaddy said:
Wiped off after sitting overnight? I dunno' 'bout 'dat. :dunno:
Temps I would bet played HUGE into that. I've not done but 3 different paint systems with it, all while it was upper 60's to 70's during the day, nothing lower than mid 50's at night. It noticeably flashed during application.

You said you applied it with the finger pockets, yes? It is my understanding those are for applying the wheel coating, whereas AG would have you use the yellow foam applicator for either the "paint" or "surface" coating. FWIW I think the yellow applicator might indeed have you using twice as much product as you need due to it absorbing so much. I can say however that it is a great deal softer, and MUCH flatter than you'd ever get the finger pockets. ;)

I have tried the foam applicator but I still prefer the CarPro suede cloth like I'd use with Cquartz. Plus the cloth seems to save a TON of product, and goes a long way towards a smoother applicaton. Also, where you can buy 10 4"x4" pieces for $12.99 I buy the 10 16"x16" cloths for $19.99, then cut them with "pinking shears" (zig-zag sissors) and can make ONE HUNDRED SIXTY 4"x4" applicators. :props: I mean 12.5¢ each versus $1.29 each is a no brainer. ;)

I can say that with either of the two above ways to apply I've seen it flash pretty much the same. The foam has a noticeable sqqqqqqqqeeeeeekkkkk going across the paint as well. Where the suede cloth is quite and smooth.

Just thought I'd toss that out there. ;)
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I am fully aware that some may not believe me, but it was indeed a full 16 hours after application before I could wheel it out of the garage and see in the sunlight what my eyes couldn't detect in the garage light.

I used the finger pockets as that was a method Mike had used to apply it on another vehicle. It seemed the best way to get at all the thin places like around the hood induction scoops and front bumper trim. Application seemed to be going well, so I never changed my procedure. I too noticed it flashing almost immediately after the finger pocket moved over it.

The smudges I was wiping out the next day were translucent in nature, faint, but very visible on the black paint. A lot like the smudges a streaky QD would leave behind.

I don't have an explanation as to why they would wipe off the next day. I appreciate your insight into the carport suede cloth usage. Should this fail, I might just go that route.

Radarryan said:
Your Challenger looks great! I hope it cured properly and lasts. I'm another enthusiast if you need to talk to someone local. I'm in North Dallas. :xyxthumbs:
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Thanks! I might just take you up on that offer some day, if for no other reason than to "shoot the poop" about stuff.
 
aim4squirrels said:
I am fully aware that some may not believe me, but it was indeed a full 16 hours after application before I could wheel it out of the garage and see in the sunlight what my eyes couldn't detect in the garage light.

I used the finger pockets as that was a method Mike had used to apply it on another vehicle. It seemed the best way to get at all the thin places like around the hood induction scoops and front bumper trim. Application seemed to be going well, so I never changed my procedure. I too noticed it flashing almost immediately after the finger pocket moved over it.

The smudges I was wiping out the next day were translucent in nature, faint, but very visible on the black paint. A lot like the smudges a streaky QD would leave behind.

I don't have an explanation as to why they would wipe off the next day. I appreciate your insight into the carport suede cloth usage. Should this fail, I might just go that route.



Thanks! I might just take you up on that offer some day, if for no other reason than to "shoot the poop" about stuff.
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I believe you because it also happened to me. My thoughts at the time were that it may have been collected moisture on poorly coated area, but after using the MF towel to wipe the area gently I noticed it required a little bit of down pressure to "remove"..... so not moisture. It has to be excess product which did not flash with the rest. I do have impecable (aka neurotic) application technique and prefer applying with the CarPro suede MF cloth wrapped around a tire applicator so technique may not be a huge factor but the removal may be.

The coating starts the bounding process on application and is recommended to be removed shortly thereafter. If you work a large area you are very likely to miss removing the excess on small patches. The product become water resilient over a 12 hour cure period but was told that full cure takes closer to 30 days (so the fingernail experiment described in a previous comment does not surprise me).

In all I may have had 2 to 3 of those "excess coating" spots to clean up (14 hrs after coating) but they were removed rather easily and the results were flawless.
 
Meticulous-Detail said:
IMO def. the temps are the issue. I wanted to coat my vehicles before the winter but had to many details to do and couldn't get to my own vehicles, so they got DG 501/601 for the winter. I am waiting till the spring to apply the coatings.

Orange tuff shine applicator sponges are also a good choice for applying coatings as they do not absorb too much product and spread evenly.
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I have a few of those sponges brand new and unused laying around. Also bought the Lake Country foam applicators as seen on the AG sales site. If the coating does indeed fail, I'll wait for consistent 60 degree temps and go back over best application practices to put it back on.

Dr_Pain said:
I believe you because it also happened to me. My thoughts at the time were that it may have been collected moisture on poorly coated area, but after using the MF towel to wipe the area gently I noticed it required a little bit of down pressure to "remove"..... so not moisture. It has to be excess product which did not flash with the rest. I do have impecable (aka neurotic) application technique and prefer applying with the CarPro suede MF cloth wrapped around a tire applicator so technique may not be a huge factor but the removal may be.

The coating starts the bounding process on application and is recommended to be removed shortly thereafter. If you work a large area you are very likely to miss removing the excess on small patches. The product become water resilient over a 12 hour cure period but was told that full cure takes closer to 30 days (so the fingernail experiment described in a previous comment does not surprise me).

In all I may have had 2 to 3 of those "excess coating" spots to clean up (14 hrs after coating) but they were removed rather easily and the results were flawless.
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This is encouraging news to hear. As there aren't any hard-and-fast directions on the AG sales site or the bottle of surface coating itself, were you given any direction on how long to wait before washing the vehicle? I'm thinking I should double that amount of time based on the current temps to be safe. On the other hand, I wonder how much dirt should be allowed to remain on the surfaces while the coating is curing out fully.

I kept it away from moisture as long as I could, but being my DD, it's got to go out side sometime. There was light misting rain yesterday and through today with stronger showers expected tomorrow.
 
aim4squirrels said:
I have a few of those sponges brand new and unused laying around. Also bought the Lake Country foam applicators as seen on the AG sales site. If the coating does indeed fail, I'll wait for consistent 60 degree temps and go back over best application practices to put it back on.



This is encouraging news to hear. As there aren't any hard-and-fast directions on the AG sales site or the bottle of surface coating itself, were you given any direction on how long to wait before washing the vehicle? I'm thinking I should double that amount of time based on the current temps to be safe. On the other hand, I wonder how much dirt should be allowed to remain on the surfaces while the coating is curing out fully.

I kept it away from moisture as long as I could, but being my DD, it's got to go out side sometime. There was light misting rain yesterday and through today with stronger showers expected tomorrow.
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I did have a conversation with Nick and found that most of what he was sharing was common coating recommendations. He may have some different recommendations now that the product has been around and tested by more "end users" but what was shared is: you can recoat within 24hrs (recommended to assure 100% coverage), no exposure to water/rain for the 12 hr cure time, no wash for 1 week (and need to be gently washed at that point because the product is not 100% hardened) and maximum cure around 30 days (under normal curing conditions). Obviously cure time will be affected environmental conditions (ie. humidity, temperature etc.. )
 
Dr_Pain said:
I did have a conversation with Nick and found that most of what he was sharing was common coating recommendations. He may have some different recommendations now that the product has been around and tested by more "end users" but what was shared is: you can recoat within 24hrs (recommended to assure 100% coverage), no exposure to water/rain for the 12 hr cure time, no wash for 1 week (and need to be gently washed at that point because the product is not 100% hardened) and maximum cure around 30 days (under normal curing conditions). Obviously cure time will be affected environmental conditions (ie. humidity, temperature etc.. )
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Interesting, looks like I'll be redoing mine in the spring. I added PBL sealant over paint coating after it cured for 12 hours then put BF BlackICE a week later. Thanks for the info Claude! :xyxthumbs:
 
Dr_Pain said:
I did have a conversation with Nick and found that most of what he was sharing was common coating recommendations. He may have some different recommendations now that the product has been around and tested by more "end users" but what was shared is: you can recoat within 24hrs (recommended to assure 100% coverage), no exposure to water/rain for the 12 hr cure time, no wash for 1 week (and need to be gently washed at that point because the product is not 100% hardened) and maximum cure around 30 days (under normal curing conditions). Obviously cure time will be affected environmental conditions (ie. humidity, temperature etc.. )
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It'd be nice if this above information was included in the products' descriptions/instructions.
It may have been a god-send to at least one AGO-forum member.

TO WIT (From this thread): http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...nnacle-black-label-diamond-paint-coating.html

And from the OP (in part...w/my highlighting):
macro said:
Hey guys,

After 3 weeks and two washes with Pinnacle Black Label Diamond Coating Shampoo

I have noticed the paint surface is starting to lose the slickness and some of the hydrophobic properties it had
after the initial application of Pinnacle Black Label Diamond Paint Coating.

Any information would be greatly appreciated!

Macro
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:)

Bob
 
That is good info indeed. Hard as it may be on my OCD, I'll have to refrain from washing it this weekend.

I'd really like to see what happens over the long haul. The finish looked fantastic after I got the excess removed. My goal is to truly try to go with this as my LSP for as long as I can hold the detailing bug at bay.

So figure about February and I'll be topping it, LOL.
 
When the vehicle cooled it began to condensate....normal. Likely the sealer lifted a bit prior to setting up. Nothing a damp cloth and the flat of your hand would not resolve. Sealers are much different than waxes. I learned that in VERY short order. The advantages I see are that they are mostly bullet-proof. That said, they don't have the depth of lets say carnubas of the best brands. I find many individuals wax for comfort and that wow appeal. Get used to the product and don't let it set-up blotchy if you will. That would mean apply outdoors where you can see. Just some suggestions!!! Remember sealer for durability and carnuba for real WOW. Both have their place. I use both on all six of my cars in the event of invading birds, like Alfred Hitchcock you know. Be well!
 
Over the long haul the sealed car will retain less dirt and appear cleaner than a waxed vehicle. That has been my finding on my daily driver and well worth the effort. I have many coats of the detailers pro on my wife's car also. She also notices, it simply gets LESS dirty. To me that is worth it. Her car is 15 years old and looks like new with 100,000 miles on it. But she is married to a detailer ....that helps a bit she admits.
 
I would agree with that belief.

Wax adds a certain warmth or depth, but the oils typically hold the dust quite well.

I may have to wash it this weekend anyway. Seems the drizzle really worked up the road film. I'm thinking that can't be terribly good for the coating.
 
So I've been thinking about this last night and most of this morning.

I think I'm going to have to wash the car this weekend. We had our first rain storm in a month these last few days, and the road film is beyond awful on my car as the rain hasn't been a flood, but a very slow, steady rain that has kept the dirt lingering around on the roads and my car. At this point the road film might be more detrimental to the coating than a wash.

I applied the Black Label Surface Coating on Friday, 1/3/14. Today is a full week later, but temps have been everywhere from 62 degrees to 16 degrees. Today will get up into the 70's and all weekend should be sunny and similar. I've got some questions on my available soaps and best practices for light wash technique. This may be getting really technical and over-thought, but what the heck, let's go there.

I have 3 soaps readily available:

CG Maxi Suds II,
DP Xtreme Foam, and
Optimum Car Wash Soap.

My thought is to use the one with the least amount of Gloss Enhancers possible to keep the surface bare after the wash to allow the coating to continue to cure for the initial 30 days. Any ideas which one fits the bill best?

I'm a foamer, I believe it helps reduce swirls immensely. I'll be using the pressure washer only for the foam cannon application, and standard home water pressure to rinse the vehicle to reduce the rough touch of pressurized water on the paint or coating.

My thoughts: Foam, rinse, foam, 2BW, rinse, sheet rinse dry, leaf blower dry. Any thoughts here? That should be about as gentle as I can be on the paint.

Last thought: It's been a full week, do I dare try to re-coat the car after it's clean? I never did go for the second coat after the second wipe down 16 hrs after applying, is it too late to re-apply?

Thanks in advance for your opinions and advise.
 
So I noticed today the Black Label brand launched a coating specific detailer and coating booster to their line-up.
 
aim4squirrels said:
So I noticed today the Black Label brand launched a coating specific detailer and coating booster to their line-up.
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Wish they launched PBL all at the same time! I ordered the QD, ouch on the price, pointless in getting the booster for me since I have BlackICE over Sealant over Coating...I know overkill but its protected :xyxthumbs:
 
Well, here's an anecdotal +1 for the Black Label Surface Coating:

Yesterday I got bird bombed in the early AM on a side panel (btw, how do birds do that, anyway? Fly sideways and fling it?) and I had no QD or towel with me to remove it. Found it on the way from one building to the next at about 8:45AM.

I didn't get home until 7:30PM and took the Meg's store bought QD to it to remove the spot. I sprayed a folded MF towel liberally with QD, put the lower portion of the towel just under the bird bomb and as I was covering the bomb, I kept saturating it with QD spray.

Held it there for 30 sec, lifted it to spray a couple more times and then lifted up (or out rather as it was on a vertical panel) bringing my fingers in to snatch up the poo into the towel, and it lifted off clean as a whistle.

Checked today in the sun, no trace of the bomb or any etching. It was on there at least 10 hours, possibly 12.

I was impressed with the coating. The KSG I used before would have to be washed and reapplied as it would have at the very least been marred.
 
Do you plan on trying out the booster or detailer? Maybe we'll be one of the lucky 5 since we have PBL applied already...
 
28ONE said:
Do you plan on trying out the booster or detailer? Maybe we'll be one of the lucky 5 since we have PBL applied already...
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It's possible. But were I to guess, I think they'd like a good cross section of various coating users to see how the product responds (or rather, prove the product works) on a variety of different coatings. So I think perhaps only one black label user might win, and then a CQuartz, opti-coat, DP, etc. to show it off if it can indeed boost other manufacturer's products.

Good luck to you, I hope you or smack wins.
 
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