Mike, is detailing rocket science?

Mirror Finish

Mirror Finish

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It appears so, because some on a car forum (why is it forums usually have one or two of those) tried to make it look as if detailing is rocket science or brain surgery and only a professional detailer can obtain results.

I've looked after my vehicles in the distant past using consumer grade products, not really knowing that much better professional grade products are available.

Since 2010 when I got all of my products from you (Flex XC 3401 VRG :xyxthumbs:, Pinnacle, Meguiar's, etc) and watching your on-line videos, I've been able to get a finish that I cannot see getting any better...I mean talk about glassy smooth and gleaming! And there were no "pucker moments" in the process. Easy as pie!

I have since passed on your web site info and video links to one of the members on that forum thread who got a Porter Cable polisher kit for Christmas and is afraid to use it.
 
Well the internet being what it is it's not surprising.

There will always be those who will try and make things look harder than they really are. For the most part it's an ego thing, nothing more than that.

Now yes 30 years ago it was more difficult than it is today because we didn't have all of the tools and products that are so much better than they used to be.
 
jankerson said:
Well the internet being what it is it's not surprising.
Click to expand...

I've always said that you need to know enough about something to sift through the good and bad information.

Or as a co-worker once put it, "the internet is the greatest source of unconfirmed information". I had to chuckle at that one.

But without it, were would we be? I've found some incredible sources of info on it.


jankerson said:
There will always be those who will try and make things look harder than they really are. For the most part it's an ego thing, nothing more than that.
Click to expand...

Probably. I could never tolerate the "no-can-do" type of road block attitude they use to boost their importance.


jankerson said:
Now yes 30 years ago it was more difficult than it is today because we didn't have all of the tools and products that are so much better than they used to be.
Click to expand...

Yes, what a difference! To think I used to work by hand and then using cheap $50 polishers that had my hands tingle hours later and using them you know why they invented foam ear plugs. I never heard of foam pads back then; did they even exist?
 
Mirror Finish said:
It appears so, because some on a car forum (why is it forums usually have one or two of those) tried to make it look as if detailing is rocket science or brain surgery and only a professional detailer can obtain results.

I've looked after my vehicles in the distant past using consumer grade products, not really knowing that much better professional grade products are available.

Since 2010 when I got all of my products from you (Flex XC 3401 VRG :xyxthumbs:, Pinnacle, Meguiar's, etc) and watching your on-line videos, I've been able to get a finish that I cannot see getting any better...I mean talk about glassy smooth and gleaming! And there were no "pucker moments" in the process. Easy as pie!

I have since passed on your web site info and video links to one of the members on that forum thread who got a Porter Cable polisher kit for Christmas and is afraid to use it.
Click to expand...

Is he an amateur or professional detailer trying to protect either his ego, justifying countless hours of training, labor and expertise, or his business or (God forbid) forum reputation? Then look no further, you've found your answer.

To a degree, science in the field of detailing products has moved it from art form or magic, to attainable to a high degree by the average joe detailer. Not to dismiss experience altogether, but it's much easier than it used to be.

As far as rocket science goes, just remember that at the end of all those countless hours of math, science, and engineering: rocket still make big BOOM.
 
Mirror Finish said:
I've always said that you need to know enough about something to sift through the good and bad information.

Or as a co-worker once put it, "the internet is the greatest source of unconfirmed information". I had to chuckle at that one.

But without it, were would we be? I've found some incredible sources of info on it.




Probably. I could never tolerate the "no-can-do" type of road block attitude they use to boost their importance.




Yes, what a difference! To think I used to work by hand and then using cheap $50 polishers that had my hands tingle hours later and using them you know why they invented foam ear plugs. I never heard of foam pads back then; did they even exist?
Click to expand...


It was all rotary and wool pads back then for the most part... Unless one made terry cloth bonnets or bought them.

I don't remember when they came out with foam pads that could be used on the air sanders, but it helped a lot.

Yes, I used to work by hand after the Rotary back then....

Was a lot of work, but better than doing it all by hand. :D

The DA polishers really made a huge change in the process.

I don't even own a rotary anymore, never replaced mine when it died. I do plan on getting another one some day though.


Yeah there are plenty of people who try anything they can to make themselves seem important....

And the forums are an easy place to do it or so it seems.
 
aim4squirrels said:
Is he an amateur or professional detailer trying to protect either his ego, justifying countless hours of training, labor and expertise, or his business or (God forbid) forum reputation? Then look no further, you've found your answer.
Click to expand...

No, he is just an insecure "key turner" who shoots anybody down that actually knows something. I notice he does not partake in any technical topics as far as providing any info, but he sure is good at belittling some people. Imagine, almost 30,000 posts of nothing but elevator talk.

Average joe detailer...that would be me and I am impressed with the results, thanks to the resources and products we have.

I'm thinking about trying one of those foam guns. As with anything I buy, I want something that has me saying, damn great product just like my Flex.
 
Mirror Finish said:
No, he is just an insecure "key turner" who shoots anybody down that actually knows something. I notice he does not partake in any technical topics as far as providing any info, but he sure is good at belittling some people. Imagine, almost 30,000 posts of nothing but elevator talk.

Average joe detailer...that would be me and I am impressed with the results, thanks to the resources and products we have.

I'm thinking about trying one of those foam guns. As with anything I buy, I want something that has me saying, damn great product just like my Flex.
Click to expand...


Some do get way too carried away with the technical aspect of it, the same as making themselves seem important.

The technical stuff has already been done for us by the Chemists that made the products.....

So all we really have to do is use them and see what works for that situation on that car in our test spot.


It's really not all that complicated as some seem to try and make it...... For various reasons......

Now it comes down to picking products and learning how to use them and what to use and that comes with time behind the buffer.

For me the technical stuff is boring.....

I am more of a hands on kind of guy.....

Either it works or it doesn't.... The why it does or doesn't work doesn't really matter to me at all.....

The KISS method....
 
Disclaimer: Not Mike

Regardless...
How, in this day and age, do we have individuals who still think:
Math-logic and real-world-logic can't exist together?

Is it true that:
If any "logic" cannot fit into an ideal universal model, then by definition, the reasoning/understanding is either incorrect or incomplete?

Regards,

Robert "Bob" Goddard
 
The hardest part for me lately has been to add another product line to what I have always used in the past.

I chose the Wolfgang line to add to the Meguiar's line that I used for decades and still do.

And I can thank Kevin for that completely as my choice was based on his recommendation. :xyxthumbs:
 
It's true, 30 years ago all we had was a rotary and wool pads.
It got the job done for us though, we only had a hand full of products but again it worked for us.

Today we have so many products to choose from, like which one is best!
I still try and keep it simple, when I find a product that works I continue to use it, no reason to look for something better if your getting outstanding results.
However I do buy other products to try them out over products I'm not crazy about.

I have two DA's and for the most part I go to them first but I still love working with my rotary when I see the need for it, take a badly trashed car, the rotary will get faster results which saves you time.
Want a super shine then a rotary with the right pads and products can and will give you outstanding results.
Back in the day we had to polish the second step by hand, today we have the best of both worlds, rotary and a DA with some really good products.

I've used m105 since it came out but it's one product I've stopped using for the most part, the WG Über Compound took its place, will I ever use 105 again?, you can bet at some point I'll need it. :dblthumb2:

AG is the best thing since sliced bread,everyone is helpful and you get to see what products detailers use and also shows which ones are worth buying.
 
In can't edit my original post so.

The question I should have asked in my initial post and the answer I am after...

How many non-professionals, and by that I mean detailers not making a living at it, have made mistakes and have damaged their paint? If you have...details?
 
jankerson said:
The hardest part for me lately has been to add another product line to what I have always used in the past.
Click to expand...

Same here, but only because I am not dissatisfied with Meguiar's Professional products since I started using them in 1996.

#205 that I use may be a fine polish, but to take it that step further, I am sure there are finer polishes which I have not looked into...yet.
 
Mirror Finish said:
Same here, but only because I am not dissatisfied with Meguiar's Professional products since I started using them in 1996.

#205 that I use may be a fine polish, but to take it that step further, I am sure there are finer polishes which I have not looked into...yet.
Click to expand...

Well M205 is the 1st Polish I grab and I doubt that will change because it's so versatile. :D

WG Finishing Glaze (yeah it's a polish, not a galze) is finer than M205 so it would be something to look at.
 
HateSwirls said:
It's true, 30 years ago all we had was a rotary and wool pads.
It got the job done for us though, we only had a hand full of products but again it worked for us.

Today we have so many products to choose from, like which one is best!
I still try and keep it simple, when I find a product that works I continue to use it, no reason to look for something better if your getting outstanding results.
However I do buy other products to try them out over products I'm not crazy about.

I have two DA's and for the most part I go to them first but I still love working with my rotary when I see the need for it, take a badly trashed car, the rotary will get faster results which saves you time.
Want a super shine then a rotary with the right pads and products can and will give you outstanding results.
Back in the day we had to polish the second step by hand, today we have the best of both worlds, rotary and a DA with some really good products.

I've used m105 since it came out but it's one product I've stopped using for the most part, the WG Über Compound took its place, will I ever use 105 again?, you can bet at some point I'll need it. :dblthumb2:

AG is the best thing since sliced bread,everyone is helpful and you get to see what products detailers use and also shows which ones are worth buying.
Click to expand...
so tell me what the trick is to use 105 because i bought it and cant use it. it seems to dry up quick and im left with caked on spots and dry spots
 
Well, its a hobby.So people get into it. It also happens to be a hobby that feeds into OCD impulses, since it is the only hobby I can think of that involves cleaning. I'm being perfectly serious when I say that. You have to guard against those impulses if you are so inclined. I am nobody's idea of an obsessive neatnik, and even I have those impulses, so I know its real.

In practicality, I'm surprised at how little it takes to keep the exterior of a car looking really nice. Things that would have taken a decade or two of trial and error to learn are easily available on the web. I never would have figured out the Garry Dean method on my own. I probably would never have heard of the super durable waxes and sealants that are out there, other than perhaps Klasse, which had a first-mover vogue when it was introduced way back when. I would have stumbled around and that would have taken a lot of time and I would have made a lot of mistakes and disappointments which would have taken me right off the hobby.

I get by with a once a year claying, three applications of Collinite 476 per year and weekly maintenance washes with rinseless wash followed by a shiny spray wax. I'm pretty sure I could get by with two waxings per year if protection were my only concern.

What is my cost to do this? About $200 per year all-in. (Things like CG Black on Black, pads, glazes, detail sprays add up to about $50 of that.). A serviceable DA polisher is only around $60 these days. It would cost me that much to run the car through a commercial wash every couple of weeks.
 
asalesagent912 said:
so tell me what the trick is to use 105 because i bought it and cant use it. it seems to dry up quick and im left with caked on spots and dry spots
Click to expand...

A little goes a long way so don't use too much product.

3 or 4 pea sized drops and work until it starts to turn clear then STOP..... Wipe off and move to the next section.

Don't over prime the pad either, goes with using too much product... It will dust a lot.....

I make an X on the pad and work it over the paint (Buffer off) to prime the pad.....

If you can't get it all off it's not a big deal since the polishing step will remove anything left over from the compounding step.

No need to really over think it, let the machine do the work...
 
HateSwirls said:
AG is the best thing since sliced bread,everyone is helpful and you get to see what products detailers use and also shows which ones are worth buying.
Click to expand...

Its the only site I have purchased from and as a so-called amateur, I've dropped a pair share of $$$ here. No complaints! As unimportant as it may seem to most, I am always impressed as to how well my orders are packed...overkill, but I'm glad they do.

Just yesterday evening I was playing with my Defelsko Posi-Test DFT Combo again and taking some readings on my 911's bodywork.

I'm getting 105 to 112 microns on the horizontal surfaces and 95 to 102 microns on the vertical surfaces. This after doing a zero calibration on a highly polished metal disc molded in a puck that the metallurgy department where I used to work made for me.

This car is just over 18 years old and a solid single stage paint. Can I assume very little paint has been polished away over the years by previous owners? Hard to know not knowing what the manufacturer's specs are.
 
Mirror Finish said:
Mike, is detailing rocket science?

It appears so, because some on a car forum (why is it forums usually have one or two of those) tried to make it look as if detailing is rocket science or brain surgery and only a professional detailer can obtain results.
Click to expand...


Sorry for the late reply...

I was out on sick-leave when you posted this and since returning to work today, (Monday, January 20th), I've been playing catch-up.


If you read enough of my posts you'll see me typing this....


Don't take something very simple and overcomplicate it, in other words, don't turn washing and waxing your car into Rocket Science.


I type that all the time. And the reason is because it's just the nature of humans that like to detail cars to get a little deep into the craft and hobby. Nothing wrong with this as long as it doesn't scare away the average person just getting into detailing.

As far as your buddy on the other forum,


Mirror Finish said:
I have since passed on your web site info and video links to one of the members on that forum thread who got a Porter Cable polisher kit for Christmas and is afraid to use it.
Click to expand...


Share these two articles I wrote, both have TONS of information to help anyone brand new to machine polishing and detailing their own cars.

LOOK at the AGE RANGE of the people in these pictures. Each one of these people were brand new to machine polishing and while here at Autogeek we taught them how to do it right the first time.

Also note the cars they are learning on...


It's not that hard...


Note these people are not just "learning" on daily drivers aka new cars, they're learning on someone's "toys" or Special Interest Vehicles. More risk for me, more fun for them...



In the below live broadcast I show a 15 year old boy how to machine polish

Live Broadcast Video - 1965 Plymouth Valiant - Extreme Makeover

1965Plymouth034.jpg





And in this one I show a 21 year old girl how to machine polish

Video & Pictures: 1965 Fastback Mustang - Gtechniq EXO Show Car Makeover!

Trista working with the rest of the team to machine polish this 1965 Mustang Fastback 2+2
TristaBuffingFortheFirstTime001.jpg



Trista removing swirls on a show car...
TristaBuffingFortheFirstTime002.jpg




And in this one I show a 80 year old man and a young lady and here boyfriend how to machine polish for their first time...

Video and Pictures - Two 1967 Camaro's - Show Car Makeovers!


CamaroNight001.jpg


CamaroNight002.jpg



PLUS you have everyone on this forum to help you along the way...

:)
 
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