High quality production detailing by Mike Phillips

[MarkD51]

4 hours by yourself? Then you are a machine, no doubt about it.

If this is true, then my best advice to you Mike, is slow down, or have help.

I want to see you here for many many many years to come.

 

[HateSwirls]

Mike my friend,everything you touch turns into gold:dblthumb2:

Question for you.
What are your thoughts on Optimum Finish Polish?
I ask because I just received a bottle of it.
Have you ever use it to jewel ?

 

[FrankS]

Machine applied Optimum Polish using a combination of 5" and 6.5" Hybrid White Polishing Pads on speed setting range of 4-5. Also made a quickie pass over the side glass and then polished the glass clear during wipe-off.

Wiped polish residue off paint.

Mike, it appears that you machine applied the polish to the vehicle and then you wiped it off when you were done polishing. This sure seems to be a more efficient way to work instead of wiping off sections as you go. Can you do this with any polish or does it depend on the type?

 

[Joe@Superior Shine]

Thanks for a glimpse into the real world Mike. It's not always about perfect finishes. As a business owner it's about delivering a high quality service that will solve the customers problems.

Recently we detailed the exterior of a 5th wheel in the morning and then did a maintenance detail on an Italia 458 that afternoon.

If we had the "everything a show car" mindset it would have been impossible to do both in one day.

 

[ducksfan]

I remember reading in one of your earlier articles that Optimum GPS has a fairly light polish. Just wondering why, if time was of the essence, you didn't use this as a one step instead.

 

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

Wow Mike! 4 hours! I along with others don't think I could get that done in that amount of time. That's my time frame for an averaged sized sedan!

Outstanding work non the less! Thanks for doing these articles!

 

[AeroCleanse]

I found that using Meg's D151 with a either a yellow or orange LC pad on a long throw DA works great.

 

[mrclean]

High quality production detailing by Mike Phillips


The solution
Part of detailing cars is under promising but over delivering. This starts by you not promising to create a swirl and scratch free finish. Period.

Great advice mike. ill always remember that. the suv looks amazing! specially in the time frame that you did it. i admire your work ethic and your communication skills :xyxthumbs:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Thanks for this thread Mike. It's so fitting as I'll be changing my services to cater towards the production side of things.

As the saying goes, that's where the meat and potatoes are in this business.

In my article for my VIF, I think I state it's important to have a package for every budget.

The number one reason I took this job is because I wanted to earn the owner's trust. He knows my work and earlier in the week he has a chance to see Earl the Plumber's 1970 El Camino, this one....

Black Label Coating Detailer & Booster - Synergistic Chemical Compatibility

So I think at some level he was testing me with is daily driver. Before he left he said he wants me to polish out his all original 1957 Chevy Bel Air Convertible. That's the type of work I'd rather do.

I too like to work non stop until the job is completed.

Except for water breaks, that's always been my style. You can see that in the time lapse video where I wetsand a car from start to finish and the only breaks are when I get a glass of water. You can tell since everything is captured in the video and I actually walk up to the camera to show the glass of water in part because the message to the viewer is to keep yourself hydrated when doing hard work like wetsanding, cutting and buffing out a car... non-stop....

The video is 8 minutes long but the project from start to finish took me 12 hours.


How to wet sand a car - Time Lapse Video

How to wet sand a car​

[video=youtube_share;5zDuFzvKSAI"]How to wet sand a car[/video]​

Let's hope I could turn cars around with quality in a quick manner as you did with this Tahoe.

Like mentioned in this thread earlier, getting organized helps speed things up. I also cover this in my how-to book, actually go into detail about how to set up your work area and part of this is so you can work clean but the other part is so you can work fast.

Great article Mike and nice job, thanks for sharing!

Thanks Frank...

Amazing article Mike. I do a lot production which to me that's where the money is at least within my customers.

Understanding the customer is key to make a profit and that's where a lot of people have a hard time but now this article should help them. Printing it out right now to my never stop growing Mike Phillips notes. I will see you at Detail Fest.

Good deal, looking forward to seeing you at Detail Fest... don't forget about the Meet & Greet at the Marriot Lounge just a few block away that takes place Saturday night. That's actually a lot of fun because during Detail Fest we here at the Geek are all working. At the Meet & Greet we're off the clock so then employees can join in the fun.

4 hours by yourself? Then you are a machine, no doubt about it.

If this is true, then my best advice to you Mike, is slow down, or have help.

I want to see you here for many many many years to come.

Thanks for the kind words... I never take my health for granted, been down before, don't need a reminder as to what that's like. Was in the gym at 5:00am this morning as a part of regular exercise.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Mike my friend,everything you touch turns into gold :dblthumb2:

It's really just a matter of following the basics and anytime you're working on car paint, never skimp on compounds and polishes. One thing I typed a lot last year on the forum used the word skimp when helping people new to the forum and new to machine polishing, goes like this,


Don't skimp on polishes


The most important aspect of ANY paint polishing process is the abrasive technology.


I know some guys say

Technique is number #1

But I say they're wrong because you can have the best technique in the world but if the stuff in the bottles isn't any good to start with then it doesn't matter how good your technique is the paint still going to come out looking trashed.

Question for you.

What are your thoughts on Optimum Finish Polish?

I ask because I just received a bottle of it.

Have you ever use it to jewel ?

My good man... I recommend you re-read this article,


Bumblebee - Testing out the NEW DeWALT DWP849X


The car in this rotary buffer review is a 1949 Chevrolet Panel Delivery and I using only a rotary buffer for all the paint polishing steps and the finish polish I jeweled the paint with was Optimum Finish Polish.

And here are the full outside sun shots...

Just to note to lurkers and people that have not read this write-up, there's tons of information and tons of pictures in the actual write-up.


After

Here's how the article starts out....

Bumblebee - Testing out the NEW DeWALT DWP849X


For some reason when I look at the new DWP849X I think of Bumblebee

It's my review of the DeWALT 849X when it first came out and I used the 1949 Chevy Sedan Delivery as my project vehicle so I could use the rotary buffer not on a SMALL SPOT but over an entire car, (and a big car), so when I wrote the review it would be based on real world time spent behind this new rotary buffer.

:xyxthumbs:

 

[Dellinger]

The problem is not how to create a show car finish in the least amount of time, that's not production detailing that's show car detailing and that's not what I'm talking about.

What I'm talking about is how can a detailer do as few as steps as possible and still turn out a quality detail job that they can be proud of and their customer will love.

And... how can a detailer do this on clearcoated black daily drivers?

The normal procedure historically for doing production detailing is to use a one-step cleaner/wax for the paintwork after the normal steps of washing, drying and claying if the paint is contaminated.

While a one-step cleaner/wax, applied by machine might work well on light colored cars, the issue is this approach will tend to leave micro-marring or a light haze in the clear layer of paint on darker colors and the hardest color of all to work on and that's black paint.

The micro-marring tends to be caused by the abrasive technology together with the pad choice and even caused in part by the machine application as the action of the pad spinning and/or oscillating against the paint leaves a tale-tale sign from the process that shows up to our eyes as a hazy appearance.

Trying to clean, polish and protect a swirled out dark or black colored clearcoat finish is for the most part asking too much from today's available technology. It's pushing the envelope too far at least if one of your requirements is to put out high quality work you can associate with your name.


The problem
Doing more than two steps means investing more time into the exterior process and this is where too many detailers lose profit. As the saying goes, time is money. Doing two, three or more steps to the paint is fine if you're charging accordingly for it but high prices and production detailing are at the opposite end of the spectrum.

To be honest, at this time there isn't a perfect answer. So Here's a two part answer that might be just the ticket for you when you're asked to work on a trashed, black or dark colored daily driver.

The solution
Part of detailing cars is under promising but over delivering. This starts by you not promising to create a swirl and scratch free finish. Period.

Removing all or even a majority of the swirls and scratches out of any daily driver is a multiple step process and you need to charge for this type of work.

Instead, here's a pretty good solution to the problem and that's to do a 2-step where the focus of your attention is in the first step, removing "some" of the shallow swirls and scratches while restoring clarity to the clearcoat and the second step is using a spray-on wax to seal the paint.

Mr. Phillips,

First off, many thanks for the article. It has really catalyzed my concerns regarding a service I offer.

I have edited your original post to highlight the areas I think are most pertinent to my concerns and if I am reading correctly, what topics you are trying to target...which are:

A.) How to provide a good service at a good price for budget minded clients

B.) How to do it in a profitable manner

C.) How to do it without inflicting micro-marring and hazing.

What I found interesting (and my thought here will speak to "C" from the list above) was that you specifically mentioned that current Cleaner Wax/ AIO technology cannot guarantee the ability to finish out to a micro-marring/ haze free finish on dark base colors. I'm trying to tread *lightly* here because I know there are various avenues to mischategorize your words. But, if in fact, I have summarized correctly, then I absolutely agree with you.

Here is my example-
Recently I completed a wash/clay/wax on an '07 Honda Accord, metallic blue. The paint was in decent shape but was in need of chemical cleaning. Swirls were present but nothing horrendous and the customer did not care for their removal. Thus the 'Clean & Shiny' project.

After a careful decon with a fine grade, Nanoskin mitt, I proceeded with a 5.5" black pad, DG501, and a traditional D/A on speed 4 with quick but steady arm speed using only the pressure of the machine. After a final wipe of the 501, I pulled the car out to inspect in the sun. Sure enough, there was some very, very faint hologramming in one place 2ft. wide on a door. I quickly grabbed some dedicated polish and removed the hologramming. My concern is- that could have been over the entire car and then my budget service would have been a budget buster!

DON'T feel compelled to respond to the below... I'm just 'thinking aloud' and maybe it will spark some further discussion on the points you made.

So, I'm unsure of how to proceed on projects going forward... am I:

A.) Pushing only 1-step details on softer OEM paint systems and dark base colors?

B.) Would a red pad or 'waxing' pad have done the same regarding the hologramming?

C.) Was my technique totally wrong?

D.) Was the feint hologramming something that was there before prior to the wash/stripping/decon?

E.) Would a hand application be more suitable on softer OEM clears and yield noticeable results?

Mike, thanks again for the article... and while I, along with probably everyone else here, enjoy what you post, I definitely enjoy the articles that focus on budget projects.

Best regards,
-Gabe

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Mike, it appears that you machine applied the polish to the vehicle and then you wiped it off when you were done polishing.

This sure seems to be a more efficient way to work instead of wiping off sections as you go.

Can you do this with any polish or does it depend on the type?

Well it helps to have a polish that wipes off easy to start with.

Normally the reason you want to wipe any compound or polish residue off immediately is to make it easier on you muscle-wise and better for the paint as any wetness still remaining in the film can act to lubricate the surface as you wipe versus dried on concrete crud.


Leaving the compound or polish residue on the car as you work around the car also creates a map showing where you've already buffed and where you still need to buff. This can be a good time saver if you don't have a great memory or don't have great lighting.


When it comes to compounding, letting the compound remain on the surface can make wiping the residue off hard with some compounds or climates. If a compound is hard to wipe off I'll tend to use terry cloth towels. Terry cloth towels are NOT as gentle to the paint as microfiber towels but a large, stout nap, that is the tiny loops of cotton, helps to slice into dried compound residue making it easier and faster to remove.

If you're going to do a follow-up polishing step, the second polishing step should remove any toweling marks left by terry cloth so it's a non-issue in my book, what I want is easy and fast, careful comes later.


But yes, I waited till I was completely done machine polishing and then wiped everything off all at once.



I actually spoke with Dr. David Ghodoussi about this exact process at SEMA, that is using the Optimum Finish polish with the Flex 3401 instead of using a cleaner/wax for doing production work and he suggested I try wiping the "Finish" polish residue off by spraying on the Optimum Car Wax and thus killing two birds with one stone.

That is what I originally wanted to do but my hunch was that using this cheater approach while it "might" save a little time I was concerned I wouldn't be leaving as much protection behind as I could by wiping the polish residue off first since the spray-on wax would be mixing with the polish residue.

So I opted to do a dedicated wipe off step and the spray and wipe-on the Optimum Car Wax.

Also just to note, the way I spray on OCW for this type of work is to fold a microfiber towel 4-ways and try to only use one side of the folded towel. The reason why is because I dampen the side I'm going to use first with a mist or three of the OCW and by starting with a folded towel dampened with the product I'm trying to apply.

By using this technique I don't fight myself as trying to apply and spread out a liquid spray wax with a dry towel causes the dry towel to try to absorb-off or remove the stuff I'm trying to put on and leave behind. Make sense?

Actually wrote about the above technique years ago.... still use it today.

Then after going over all the body panels and plastic, I go back and do a quick light buff with a fresh, clean dry folded microfiber towel to remove any left over wax or what we all call "High Spots" as it relates to coatings.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Thanks for a glimpse into the real world Mike. It's not always about perfect finishes.

As a business owner it's about delivering a high quality service that will solve the customers problems.

Exactly.

This project is the materialization of what I wrote about here,

A few tips on starting a part-time detailing business
Match your services to your customer

Recently we detailed the exterior of a 5th wheel in the morning and then did a maintenance detail on an Italia 458 that afternoon.

If we had the "everything a show car" mindset it would have been impossible to do both in one day.

And with your seasoned experience you only know all to well how to match your services to your customer so they're happy and you make a profit.

Win/Win Business


The best kind....



:dblthumb2:

 

[FrankS]

...But yes, I waited till I was completely done machine polishing and then wiped everything off all at once.

Also just to note, the way I spray on OCW for this type of work is to fold a microfiber towel 4-ways and try to only use one side of the folded towel. The reason why is because I dampen the side I'm going to use first with a mist or three of the OCW and by starting with a folded towel dampened with the product I'm trying to apply.

By using this technique I don't fight myself as trying to apply and spread out a liquid spray wax with a dry towel causes the dry towel to try to absorb-off or remove the stuff I'm trying to put on and leave behind. Make sense?...

Thanks Mike for the explanation on wiping after polishing and also for the great tip on applying spray wax. It makes sense. :xyxthumbs:

 

[van185]

Great job.

 

[Hoytman]

Mike, it appears that you machine applied the polish to the vehicle and then you wiped it off when you were done polishing. This sure seems to be a more efficient way to work instead of wiping off sections as you go...

Great eye FrankS.rops:

I went back a tried to find where Mike specifically said this. Took me three times to find it. Here it is below.

Here's what I used...

Process

Wiped Tahoe dry after moving into garage.

Opened all doors and hatchback and wiped down all door jambs.

Hand applied Tuf Shine Tire Clearcoat so it could dry while I buffed out the paint. Wiped chrome wheel covers with glass cleaner to remove any Tuf Shine overspray.

Machine applied Optimum Polish using a combination of 5" and 6.5" Hybrid White Polishing Pads on speed setting range of 4-5. Also made a quickie pass over the side glass and then polished the glass clear during wipe-off.

Wiped polish residue off paint.

Hand applied Optimum Car Wax, this is a spray-on wax so it's fast and easy.

Blew out the inside of the car using the Tornador Car Cleaning Gun. Ran out of time or I would have vacuumed but the interior was actually rally clean and the Tornador with all doors open made fast work of what little debris was on the floors, console, dash and seats.

Done...

Easily missed, so I highlighted it in red for folks to see.

Then FrankS asked...

Can you do this with any polish or does it depend on the type?

Well it helps to have a polish that wipes off easy to start with...

...But yes, I waited till I was completely done machine polishing and then wiped everything off all at once.

It's really just a matter of following the basics and anytime you're working on car paint, never skimp on compounds and polishes. One thing I typed a lot last year on the forum used the word skimp when helping people new to the forum and new to machine polishing, goes like this,


Don't skimp on polishes


The most important aspect of ANY paint polishing process is the abrasive technology.

Hope y'all don't mind me sort re-arranging for those reading into the future.

Great catch Frank...and great question too.

 

[Hoytman]

Thanks Mike for the explanation on wiping after polishing and also for the great tip on applying spray wax. It makes sense. :xyxthumbs:

:iagree: Thanks Mike for such a detailed response.

 

[FrankS]

...Great catch Frank...and great question too.

Thanks for the compliment. I want to learn as much as I can from others on this forum. Therefore, I usually take my time and read every word when someone does a detail session, especially when it comes to Mike's articles.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I remember reading in one of your earlier articles that Optimum GPS has a fairly light polish.

Correct.

In the old days there were aggressive cleaner/waxes for the automotive world, once clearcoat paints were introduced in the 1980's and then went mainstream, these aggressive cleaner/waxes all disappeared from the shelves of your local auto parts store because they upset to many people by scouring the clearcoat finish.

You can still find aggressive one-step cleaner/waxes but they are in the marine world for gel-coat boats.

That said, since there are no longer any aggressive cleaner/waxes, here are you're remaining options in this day and age...

• Medium Cleaning
• Light Cleaning
• Very Light Cleaning

Here are three examples of cleaner/waxes that fall into the above three categories,

Medium Cleaning - Meguiar's D151 Paint Correction Creme --> One-step cleaner/wax

Light Cleaning --> Pinnacle XMT 360 --> One-step cleaner/wax

Very Light Cleaning --> Optimum GPS --> - One-step cleaner/wax
​

I like Optimum GPS and have used it in the past to "maintain" the paint on my 1975 Jimmy.

I have found with all of the above however they can leave a light haze or micro-marring on clearcoated black vehicles. You have to inspect the paint to see it but that is my experience.

Just wondering why, if time was of the essence, you didn't use this as a one step instead.

Great question. And I explained this in-depth in the first post of this article.

Normally the words high quality and production detailing don't go well together. Production detailing is the type of slop-n-glop work performed by people with little to no training and working under tight time requirements with low quality pads, products and tools.

The problem is not how to create a show car finish in the least amount of time, that's not production detailing that's show car detailing and that's not what I'm talking about.

What I'm talking about is how can a detailer do as few as steps as possible and still turn out a quality detail job that they can be proud of and their customer will love.

And... how can a detailer do this on clearcoated black daily drivers?

The normal procedure historically for doing production detailing is to use a one-step cleaner/wax for the paintwork after the normal steps of washing, drying and claying if the paint is contaminated.

While a one-step cleaner/wax, applied by machine might work well on light colored cars, the issue is this approach will tend to leave micro-marring or a light haze in the clear layer of paint on darker colors and the hardest color of all to work on and that's black paint.

The micro-marring tends to be caused by the abrasive technology together with the pad choice and even caused in part by the machine application as the action of the pad spinning and/or oscillating against the paint leaves a tale-tale sign from the process that shows up to our eyes as a hazy appearance.

Because most daily drivers tend to be trashed in the sense the paint is filled with swirls and scratches, in order to provide enough correction ability to create a visible and even dramatic visual difference, (in the eyes of your customer), some type of abrasive technology is needed together with some type of chemical cleaning ability plus any polishing oils and last but not the least important, some type of protection ingredients be they synthetic, naturally occurring or a blend of both.

Trying to clean, polish and protect a swirled out dark or black colored clearcoat finish is for the most part asking too much from today's available technology. It's pushing the envelope too far at least if one of your requirements is to put out high quality work you can associate with your name.

My goal was to clean-up the paint using the fastest tool possible without leaving holograms or micro-marring in the least amount of steps and on BLACK paint.

If it would have been a white Tahoe I could have used any one-step cleaner/wax.


The problem is further explained in this recent article....



Clearcoats are Scratch-Sensitive




You're question is good and I knew people would have questions like this so I tried my best to very carefully and delicately explain why to use a dedicated polish, (not an all-in-one cleaner/wax), followed by a dedicated wax, in this case, a spray-on liquid wax for speed and maximum UV protection.


Note...

When I use the word dedicated in context of a liquid paint care product it usually means a product that has a dedicated of specific purpose, not multiple purposes.

A dedicated compound is a compound designed to remove serious or deep paint defects quickly. While it may polish out like a polish, it's still a compound.

A cleaner/wax does three things in one-step, so while "you" can get three things done in one step the product is doing three things thus it's not a dedicated product better said, a product that can be used for a single or dedicated procedure.


If any of that makes sense?


:dunno:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I found that using Meg's D151 with a either a yellow or orange LC pad on a long throw DA works great.

I'll have to try that out on clearcoated black paint and see what kind of results I get.

I've found that one of the secrets to getting great results when doing a one-step to darker colors and especially clearcoated black paint is to use the softest foam pad you can get away with. But I have not tried this with a long orbit stroke polisher, only the Porter Cable style, (Griot's and Meguiar's G110v2), and the Flex 3401.

The yellow and orange Lake Country foam pads in either CCS or Flat styles are cutting pads and kind of stiff and aggressive. My guess is the pad alone will tend to haze a clearcoated black paint system.

But your experience is...

Due to the long orbit stroke of a tool like the Rupes orbital polishers, the aggressive nature of these types of pads are not an issue on black paint with a medium cleaning ability one-step cleaner/wax?


Interesting.... I could test that out on one of my black demo panels and see if it works.