Product review: Pinnacle Paint Coating/Synergy

swanicyouth said:
Yes, after using the Pinnacle prep product. I'm curious to see if this Synergy is more durable than other waxes that are considered quite durable.
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Sounds good Steve. Keep up updated.

FivePoint.0 said:
Excellent job, Mike! :props:

I'm surprised as the prep polish doesn't have any abrasives, IIRC.
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Thanks Mark! It did seem to clear up any of the minor hazing.

From the AutoGeek webpage.

Pinnacle Black Label Surface Cleansing Polish
Black Label Surface Cleansing Polish is capable of removing heavy road film, light water spots, embedded dirt, oxidation and light swirl marks. White paint will be brighter, dark paint will be richer, and glass will be clearer after being polished with Black Label Surface Cleansing Polish. In one step your vehicle will be clean, polished, and ready for long-term protection with one of the many Black Label coatings available.
 
Why did you wax after the coating?
Very nice job you did there :)
 
Haven't tried the Black Label cleanser since I'm pretty happy with the Sonax & P21s versions. Can anyone speak to the differences if there are any between these products?
 
2shiny said:
Why did you wax after the coating?
Very nice job you did there :)
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Thank you.

Normally I would not wax a coated vehicle with a tradtional wax but with PBL Synergy having coating properties and being able to bond with a coating why not?

addysdaddy said:
Haven't tried the Black Label cleanser since I'm pretty happy with the Sonax & P21s versions. Can anyone speak to the differences if there are any between these products?
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Would like to hear also if there are any differences for future references.

But I like the Synergistic compatibility within the brand.
 
Hey Mike, I understand the value of brand compatibility but...when a product's single purpose is to clean/remove anything left behind and does not itself leave behind a byproduct or residue, I'm not sure brand compatibility comes into play. I'm not picking on BL or any other house brand for that matter but all the manufacturers who make a myriad of products would love for us to use Brand X version for each and every step of a full detail - from shampoo to LSP and everything in between.

But I'm like most other forum members and enjoy testing new products to see if I can find a better mousetrap than my current favorite (whatever). But once I find it (like in my case I love Ultima Paint Guard Wash) I'm just going to use that shampoo and not worry that my LSP du jour won't bond with the paint properly. But let's say I'm getting ready to polish and the job is going to require a two step - there is where I believe compatibility comes into play. I'm going to stick with the product line that I started with. So if I have both Wolfgang, Menzerna and Meguiars in my cabinet I'm going to select the compound and finishing polish from the same manufacturer. Anyway, I just thought I would throw that out there since sometimes we lose sight of the forest for the trees.
 
I don't know about the Sonax paint cleanser, but the P21S paint cleanser definitely leaves something behind. So, in this case it may be best to go for the Pinnacle cleanser - which is supposed to leave nothing behind.
 
swanicyouth said:
I don't know about the Sonax paint cleanser, but the P21S paint cleanser definitely leaves something behind. So, in this case it may be best to go for the Pinnacle cleanser - which is supposed to leave nothing behind.
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I was unaware of this. Where did you read that Swani as I would like to see what really in that chemical since it's one of my bread & butter products and since nothing is mentioned in the product description or literature, I assumed it was simply a cleanser. Appreciate the link.
 
I thought P21S PWC had a glaze component to it and it was well known. But, I can't seem to find it in print.

But, the fact that the bottle seems to separate and needs to be shaken up leads me to believe there is an oil/polymer and water component to it.
 
swanicyouth said:
I thought P21S PWC had a glaze component to it and it was well known. But, I can't seem to find it in print.
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You're talking about the P21S GEPC, right? 10 years ago when I started on these forums, it was common knowledge that all these paint cleaners had an oil/glaze component, because they all started out as pre-wax cleaners, so who cared?

If you were using a sealant you used KAIO as your pre-sealant cleaner. There were later also Sonus and Four Star paint cleaners that IIRC were supposed to have no oils/be ok for sealants, because Sonus and Four Star made only sealants, no waxes, but today the descriptions for both indicate they fill small swirls, so unless they are using sealant-safe fillers like in Wet Glaze or Black Hole, they also now have oils.

I presume the Ultima paint cleaner is oil-free given it's mission. Anyway, this is a subject that seems to get murkier over time, rather than clearer.
 
swanicyouth said:
I thought P21S PWC had a glaze component to it and it was well known. But, I can't seem to find it in print.

But, the fact that the bottle seems to separate and needs to be shaken up leads me to believe there is an oil/polymer and water component to it.
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Like Setec just stated, this topic gets very hard to decipher fact from fiction. And frankly to me it seems superficially simple - a cleanser is precisely that and should not contain anything else. If a supplemental wipe down is required because of residual oils or deposits, then state that in the instructions.
 
I just sent P21s an email inquiring to this fact. I'll report back once they respond.
 
addysdaddy said:
Like Setec just stated, this topic gets very hard to decipher fact from fiction. And frankly to me it seems superficially simple - a cleanser is precisely that and should not contain anything else. If a supplemental wipe down is required because of residual oils or deposits, then state that in the instructions. I just sent P21s an email inquiring to this fact. I'll report back once they respond.
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I think you are splitting hairs--the GEPC is made to go under the P21S wax...any oils/fillers only enhance its effectiveness in that application. I don't think P21S is losing any sleep or even prepared to answer questions about whether GEPC is an appropriate prep for a coating or even a sealant.

I think a better answer might come from the guys at Four Star, since they make pre-cleaners specifically for sealants. This kind circles back to all the Meg's products that contain their Trade Secret Oils, and are they compatible with "waxes" like NXT which is a sealant--they say yes. As I said, murkier instead of clearer.

To circle back to an earlier comment about whether your prep product needs to be from the same line as your coating...the answer IMO is no, but the prep better be one that is ok for (someone's) coating, and not made to go under a wax.

BTW all the Optimum polishes, lotion or spray, are supposed to be Opti-Coat compatible. (not of course, the GPS or Poli-Seal)
 
Thanks Setec, appreciate the feedback and your p.o.v. Perhaps the easiest course of action is transition to the Four Star Cleanser. KISS works for me.
 
addysdaddy said:
Thanks Setec, appreciate the feedback and your p.o.v. Perhaps the easiest course of action is transition to the Four Star Cleanser. KISS works for me.
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Yeah, but the Four Star cleaner says it fills, also. The best bet would probably be the Ultima, because that's for UPGP. Why don't you shoot an email to Premium/Four Star? It's support @ premiumfinishcare dot you-know-what. They were giving out those Sonus coating samples at Detail Fest so they must be up to speed on coating prep. My apologies to Smack for derailing his thread.

Four Star Ultimate PreWax Cleanser is a nonabrasive polish that deep cleans the paint to improve the gloss and prep the paint for a coat of wax or a

Ultima Paint Prep Plus & Applicator, prewax cleanser, prewax polish, cleaner polish
 
Thanks for all the feedback Gentlemen on various products.

But at the end of the day IMO its better to use products in unison that are formulated from the same company. This eliminates the guesswork from wondering what works and what wont.
 
smack said:
Thanks for all the feedback Gentlemen on various products. But at the end of the day IMO its better to use products in unison that are formulated from the same company. This eliminates the guesswork from wondering what works and what wont.
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Yeah, we got kind of off-track, I understand the concern that if you are using a few different coatings you might not want to have a few different prep products, but as you noted, using the companion product ensures everything is going to work correctly.
 
fwiw, here's the response I received from P21s

Dear Stuart,
Thanks for your mail. There is a bit of gloss-enhancing residual left behind. If you really cannot live with this, you will need something else.

Kind regards,
Customer Service
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Yeah, we got kind of off-track, I understand the concern that if you are using a few different coatings you might not want to have a few different prep products, but as you noted, using the companion product ensures everything is going to work correctly.
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No problem. Hopefully this answered some questions from others.

addysdaddy said:
fwiw, here's the response I received from P21s

Dear Stuart,
Thanks for your mail. There is a bit of gloss-enhancing residual left behind. If you really cannot live with this, you will need something else.

Kind regards,
Customer Service
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Thanks for the follow up. :xyxthumbs:
 
Weird... I look at that car every day (I park in the same parking lot) and I have never seen it that dirty! Haha looks good Mike
 
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