xxnonamexx
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- Apr 28, 2006
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My brother in law has a vw that is old and paint looks matte I buffed it but it doesn't have that showroom shine. I will post photos
matte finish looking car get glossy?
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thebamboo23
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- Dec 19, 2012
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pics will def help
refreshauto
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- Feb 19, 2014
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post some pics and products used, might have some better products suggestions after that
Daniel Kinder
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- Dec 24, 2007
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Old single stage paint! Mike Phillips has went over this before, he has a thread on it here some where, but in short get you a bottle of Meguiars #7 Show Car Glaze! It's a pure polish and will bring back the finish your after!
Apply it over the whole car in a garage (if you have one) or shaded area and then go back were you started and lightly wipe over but the first wipe won't remove just skim over. Go over the entire vehicle wiping or just skimming over and when finished, go back and start again were you started and wipe again, often times this will remove all (depends on how heavy you applied it) if not a 3rd wipe down will get it and bring back a great shine, then apply your favorite wax or sealant.
Also you can apply the first coat heavy and use a little pressure and work into the pores of the paint to nourish and bring back to live! And also I wouldn't use a machine on the old paint, specially if it's original or very thin and dried out from the sun's UV rays. And if this helps you I would get a bottle or can of #26 Hi-Tech Yellow Wax to add the best condition that can be had from old neglected paint.
I know there will be other recommended procedures but this is a proven combo for old single stage paint. Like I mentioned Mike Phillips wrote a great article on just this type of paint, maybe someone knows where it is or you can search for it.
Hope I've helped and would love to see the before and after pics. I love old air cooled VW!!!
Apply it over the whole car in a garage (if you have one) or shaded area and then go back were you started and lightly wipe over but the first wipe won't remove just skim over. Go over the entire vehicle wiping or just skimming over and when finished, go back and start again were you started and wipe again, often times this will remove all (depends on how heavy you applied it) if not a 3rd wipe down will get it and bring back a great shine, then apply your favorite wax or sealant.
Also you can apply the first coat heavy and use a little pressure and work into the pores of the paint to nourish and bring back to live! And also I wouldn't use a machine on the old paint, specially if it's original or very thin and dried out from the sun's UV rays. And if this helps you I would get a bottle or can of #26 Hi-Tech Yellow Wax to add the best condition that can be had from old neglected paint.
I know there will be other recommended procedures but this is a proven combo for old single stage paint. Like I mentioned Mike Phillips wrote a great article on just this type of paint, maybe someone knows where it is or you can search for it.
Hope I've helped and would love to see the before and after pics. I love old air cooled VW!!!
BobbyG
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- Dec 29, 2009
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This is a great article on single stage paints.......by Mike Phillips of course!!
The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints
The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints
xxnonamexx
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- Apr 28, 2006
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Here is a portion my brother in law just did a part and you can notice before it had no shine now it has a slight shine he used a buffer with compound. I just read your comments about single stage paint. I would have to get these products. I don't even think its a VW now lol.
xxnonamexx
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- Apr 28, 2006
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Its a MG convertible.
xxnonamexx
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- Apr 28, 2006
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my brother in law buffed it and didn't like how he couldn't get it that showroom shine so he left it to me. So I am trying to see what product to use and how to start it to get the showroom shine. I would think as you mentioned it is single stage as well as oxidation.
xxnonamexx
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- Apr 28, 2006
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So I gave Mike's technique a try but I am having an issue with what looks like water spots on the paint that don't come off. Attached is what I have done so far but I think it's needs a buffing to get it to the next step. Attached you will see what I mean by white spots after claying.
Mike Phillips
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- Dec 5, 2022
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To my eyes, the "after" shots show improvement over the before condition of the paint.
I have found via experience that old MG's had horrible factory paint. That is they just never seem to take to polishing like paint on other cars from that era.
I owned a couple of Spitfires from the 1970's and I also don't think the factory paint on these cars was very high quality.
So that could be part of the equation. If they've been repainted then that's another story.
So real quick... the idea behind rubbing out old single stage paint that is important to you, (for some people it's not important), is to push the trade secret oils found in products like #7 and #3 into the paint where they will rejuvenate it. By rejuvenate I mean moisturize it because single stage paints dry out and also reinvigorate the pigments to restore the full richness of color.
It is my opinion that if saving original paint is important to you then you are better off to do this heavy saturation rub-down of the paint with the #7 BEFORE you do any compounding or polishing to make the paint safer to work on.
So AFTER rubbing and saturating the paint with the #7 THEN proceed to do some compounding or polishing to both remove dead paint and in the process also remove swirls and scratches, (below surface defects), and THEN hit it again with the #7.
The reason for the second application of the #7 if you compound and/or polish the paint is because you will have abraded the #7 treated paint off the car.
No you want to re-apply to again, moisturize and reinvigorate the pigments to again, bring out the full richness of color.
Then seal with a wax.
Ive done the above so many times in my life I cannot count nor remember all the cars I've performed this process to but a lot.
SOMETIMES it doesn't work. When it doesn't work it's not because you're not doing something right or the products don't work it's because the pigments have become unstable or the paint as a whole has is past the point of no return.
If you own a copy of my first or second edition of my how-to book there's a section called,
Paint Condition Categories
In this section I clearly define category #9 Unstable and #12 Past the Point of No Return.
If anyone reading this into the future doesn't have a copy of my book I can tell you first-hand its jamb-packed with tons of information like this. But I digress...
So after you have done the saturation step, try doing some machine polishing but ONLY use quality compounds and polishes.
I say this all the time on this forum, here goes again... when working on thin, delicate paints, be they single stage or clear coats....
Don't skimp on compounds and polishes.
That means,
Don't skimp on abrasive technology.
Abrasive technology is the most important factor as it related to you success or failure when polishing paint. Some guys say it's technique. I say they're all wrong. Technique is a factor of course but what's more important is the abrasives being pushed over the paint surface.
When it comes to single stage paints, not only is it the abrasive technology it's also the carrying agents for the abrasive technology.
Cheap compounds and polishes use solvents that will leach out the oils in single stage paint which dries them out and accelerate oxidation. It will also leave the paint looking dull.
Questions
So what do you have for compounds and polishes?
What do you have for pads and tools?
I have found via experience that old MG's had horrible factory paint. That is they just never seem to take to polishing like paint on other cars from that era.
I owned a couple of Spitfires from the 1970's and I also don't think the factory paint on these cars was very high quality.
So that could be part of the equation. If they've been repainted then that's another story.
So real quick... the idea behind rubbing out old single stage paint that is important to you, (for some people it's not important), is to push the trade secret oils found in products like #7 and #3 into the paint where they will rejuvenate it. By rejuvenate I mean moisturize it because single stage paints dry out and also reinvigorate the pigments to restore the full richness of color.
It is my opinion that if saving original paint is important to you then you are better off to do this heavy saturation rub-down of the paint with the #7 BEFORE you do any compounding or polishing to make the paint safer to work on.
So AFTER rubbing and saturating the paint with the #7 THEN proceed to do some compounding or polishing to both remove dead paint and in the process also remove swirls and scratches, (below surface defects), and THEN hit it again with the #7.
The reason for the second application of the #7 if you compound and/or polish the paint is because you will have abraded the #7 treated paint off the car.
No you want to re-apply to again, moisturize and reinvigorate the pigments to again, bring out the full richness of color.
Then seal with a wax.
Ive done the above so many times in my life I cannot count nor remember all the cars I've performed this process to but a lot.
SOMETIMES it doesn't work. When it doesn't work it's not because you're not doing something right or the products don't work it's because the pigments have become unstable or the paint as a whole has is past the point of no return.
If you own a copy of my first or second edition of my how-to book there's a section called,
Paint Condition Categories
In this section I clearly define category #9 Unstable and #12 Past the Point of No Return.
If anyone reading this into the future doesn't have a copy of my book I can tell you first-hand its jamb-packed with tons of information like this. But I digress...
So after you have done the saturation step, try doing some machine polishing but ONLY use quality compounds and polishes.
I say this all the time on this forum, here goes again... when working on thin, delicate paints, be they single stage or clear coats....
Don't skimp on compounds and polishes.
That means,
Don't skimp on abrasive technology.
Abrasive technology is the most important factor as it related to you success or failure when polishing paint. Some guys say it's technique. I say they're all wrong. Technique is a factor of course but what's more important is the abrasives being pushed over the paint surface.
When it comes to single stage paints, not only is it the abrasive technology it's also the carrying agents for the abrasive technology.
Cheap compounds and polishes use solvents that will leach out the oils in single stage paint which dries them out and accelerate oxidation. It will also leave the paint looking dull.
Questions
So what do you have for compounds and polishes?
What do you have for pads and tools?
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 7
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 7
I looked at the pictures again, looks like we're talking about and working on an MG
Not sure where the VW came from?
I placed these pictures in your free gallery here on AGO so they can be inserted. Attaching is so lame when it's so easy to upload a picture so it can be inserted for EASY viewing.
The paint is definitely looking better....
Here's the picture showing the white spots...
It's kind of hard to tell from the pictures but from what I can see, the white areas in the paint kind of look like the below picture which can be found in my article and my how-to book.
3 - Types of Water Spots - Type I, Type II and Type III
Type III Water Spots
Type III Water Spots are spots that look faded or dull and are found primarily found on single stage paints after a water source lands on and then pools on the paint and is usually left to dwell on the surface for some measure of time before it evaporates or is wiped-off the surface.
Modern clear coat paints tend to be harder and impermeable, that is non-porous, so liquids don't penetrated easily and thus stain spots tend to be topical, that is only affect the very upper surface and are easier and safer to remove with a compound or polish.
Older single stage paints tend to be soft and permeable, or porous, it's common for liquids to penetrate into the paint and stain the paint below the surface. Removing stains out of single stage paints can be risky because in order to remove the stains you have to abrade the paint and if the stains penetrated deep then you risk removing too much in an effort to try to remove them completely.
If the paint has Type III Water Spots then the only thing you can try is to compound and polish the paint to try to remove the paint that has been stained white.
The risk is removing too much and exposing primer.
#7 should darken or clear them up a little but won't make the problem go away.
Not sure where the VW came from?
I placed these pictures in your free gallery here on AGO so they can be inserted. Attaching is so lame when it's so easy to upload a picture so it can be inserted for EASY viewing.
The paint is definitely looking better....
Here's the picture showing the white spots...
It's kind of hard to tell from the pictures but from what I can see, the white areas in the paint kind of look like the below picture which can be found in my article and my how-to book.
3 - Types of Water Spots - Type I, Type II and Type III
Type III Water Spots
Type III Water Spots are spots that look faded or dull and are found primarily found on single stage paints after a water source lands on and then pools on the paint and is usually left to dwell on the surface for some measure of time before it evaporates or is wiped-off the surface.
Modern clear coat paints tend to be harder and impermeable, that is non-porous, so liquids don't penetrated easily and thus stain spots tend to be topical, that is only affect the very upper surface and are easier and safer to remove with a compound or polish.
Older single stage paints tend to be soft and permeable, or porous, it's common for liquids to penetrate into the paint and stain the paint below the surface. Removing stains out of single stage paints can be risky because in order to remove the stains you have to abrade the paint and if the stains penetrated deep then you risk removing too much in an effort to try to remove them completely.
If the paint has Type III Water Spots then the only thing you can try is to compound and polish the paint to try to remove the paint that has been stained white.
The risk is removing too much and exposing primer.
#7 should darken or clear them up a little but won't make the problem go away.
xxnonamexx
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- Apr 28, 2006
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- #14
Thanks Mike! I have wool pads. I have Malco collection of compounds from fine compound, lite, Lite 2, clear coat polish, Collinite wax, I have a bunch of products from Auto geek but my malco collection was from before I found autogeek. I have so much too many to list. What compund, polish do you reccommend? I have a abrasive to a fine grit sandpaper 1000 type. I have porter cable and Makita buffer.
xxnonamexx
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- Apr 28, 2006
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It's a MG I thought he was bringing the VW.
I'm confused? :dunno:
Are we working on a VW or a MG?
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
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- 7
I've never used Malco products. I've heard of them but never used them. I'd test one of the fine to medium cut product out with a foam pad and a dual action polisher. This will be a safe test to gauge whether you're improving the paint or making it worse.
Old single stage paints actually like a wool pad on a rotary buffer, kind of like gel-coats. The problem is you can't use wool and a rotary for the last step or you'll leave holograms.
So do some testing with some of the polishes and let us know how the results look.
You can try testing the compound but be careful. An aggressive compound on a wool pad with a rotary buffer will cut a lot of paint off very fast.
Very cool project.
I've owned,
2 MG Midgets - A 1963 and a 1964
2 MGA's - A 1959 and a 1962
2 Triumph Spitfires - a 1974 and a 1975
Went through my "British Sports Car" phase and then switched over to 1959 and 1960 Cadillacs, then to classic Blazers and BBC....2 MGA's - A 1959 and a 1962
2 Triumph Spitfires - a 1974 and a 1975
It's all good....