How THICK could that coating possibly be?

allenk4

allenk4

In time out
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
Messages
4,845
Reaction score
0
I have asked a similar question in the Opti-Coat thread, but I thought I might be able to get a wider range of input with a separate thread

Trying to do the basic math to determine how much I need to buy to coat my SUV

I have read accounts on various Forum of Opti-Coat 2.0 users coating a sedan with 5-7ml

There are wide ranging claims of how thick these coatings are. Optimum employees have claimed in several forums that OC 2.0 adds 2 microns

I do not understand how a coating thickness of 2 microns is achieved with <10ml of any coating on a normal sedan


To make things easier we will assume:

- No product volume is lost due to absorption by the applicator

- No product volume is lost due to evaporation

- Product coating thickness of 1 micron


To make it more useable for everyone; thought a good starting place would be to establish how much coating is applied to a 12" x 12" area at a thickness of 1 micron


I am stumbling with the math, which should be simple:

Convert Inches to Microns

and then


Volume = Length x Width x Height


A little help, please

Thanks
 
A square foot is .0929 square meters. A micron is 10^-6 m. .0929 * 10^-6 = 9.29*10^-8 cubic meters or .0929mL. So, 10mL/.0929ml per sq foot = 107.64 sq feet covered by 10mL of product assuming 1 micron thickness and no liquid lost to evaporation
 
Thanks for the help with the Math


So if Opti-Coat 2.0 was claiming 2 micron thickness....10ml would cover approx. 54 square feet


Something does not add up for those who were only using 5-7ml to coat a 4-door sedan


I did the basic math on a Toyota Camry

The painted surfaces are at least 125 square feet
 
allenk4 said:
To make it more useable for everyone; thought a good starting place would be to establish how much coating is applied to a 12" x 12" area at a thickness of 1

Convert Inches to Microns
Volume = Length x Width x Height
Click to expand...
• 1" = 25,400 µ
• 12" = 304,800 µ
• 304,800 X 304,800 = 92,903,040,000 sq. µ
• 92,903,040,000 X 1 = 92,903,040,000 cubic µ

•For the mL amount of a Coating needed to cover an
area 12" X 12" to a depth/thickness of 1µ...
-Insert the above cubic µ amount into the below formula:



•For the mL-amount of that Coating to cover an entire vehicle:
-Find the area in square feet of the vehicle's surfaces to be covered,
-and then multiply that:
by the number reached from solving the above equation.

Notes:
•We already know, from the aforementioned Opti-Coat thread, that your vehicle's hood (5ft X 4ft.) will take right at 1.857756mL of a Coating @1µ thick.

•I've mentioned before that there seemed to be a contest amongst some Coatings' appliers to see how much less, and less of the product they could use...and with what, I can only conclude: "get away with".


Bob
 
The more I look...the more confounding the information

The directions for OC 2.0:

Directions:

1. Polish paint with Optimum Polish II or Optimum Hyper Polish to remove any defects.

2. Clean surface with 15% IPA solution to remove all polishing oils, waxes, and silicones.

3. Prime the applicator by making an X pattern across the pad. Only a few drops will be needed for each subsequent panel.


A "Drop" is .05mL....no way you can cover a door or fender with a few drops and get 2 microns of depth

A 20mL syringe of OC would contain 400 drops

400 drops divided by 3 (a few per panel) = 133


So, after priming the pad...you should be able to coat 133 "panels"
 
allenk4 said:
I have asked a similar question in the Opti-Coat thread, but I thought I might be able to get a wider range of input with a separate thread

Trying to do the basic math to determine how much I need to buy to coat my SUV

I have read accounts on various Forum of Opti-Coat 2.0 users coating a sedan with 5-7ml

There are wide ranging claims of how thick these coatings are. Optimum employees have claimed in several forums that OC 2.0 adds 2 microns

I do not understand how a coating thickness of 2 microns is achieved with <10ml of any coating on a normal sedan


To make things easier we will assume:

- No product volume is lost due to absorption by the applicator

- No product volume is lost due to evaporation

- Product coating thickness of 1 micron


To make it more useable for everyone; thought a good starting place would be to establish how much coating is applied to a 12" x 12" area at a thickness of 1 micron


I am stumbling with the math, which should be simple:

Convert Inches to Microns

and then


Volume = Length x Width x Height


A little help, please

Thanks
Click to expand...


Have you found someone who still has some left to sell?
 
It would seem, that for the interested parties, that data regarding depth just before application and prior to application of various coatings has been recorded and posted here. It seems feasible that someone here has done as much.

Interesting topic Allen
 
Belphegor said:
It would seem, that for the interested parties, that data regarding depth just before application and prior to application of various coatings has been recorded and posted here. It seems feasible that someone here has done as much.

Interesting topic Allen
Click to expand...

I have seen the thread that addressed if wax thickness was actually added when applying multiple coats

I have never seen anyone post actual measured thickness data for these types is coatings in a real world setting or from a lab

If anyone has, please add it to the thread, it would be great information
 
If your going for thickness and beading, I think the best method is to apply 2 coats - about an hour apart. 5cc to do a car is just crazy. It takes about 7 - 8 cc to do 4 wheels completely and correctly.
 
Remember reading/hearing that a film-layer of a car Wax is only a few molecules thick...


•Smallest molecule:
H2, with a "bond length" of 0.74 Å (.074 nm)
•Large molecule:
Synthetic silica ~1000 Å (100 nm) in diameter.

•Wax molecule: 40-50 Å (4-5 nm) in diameter.

•Coating molecule:
-(100 times that of a wax?)...If true:
-4000-5000 Å (400-500 nm) in diameter

•500 nm = .5 µm

Therefore, it appears that:
•A one (1) µm thickness of a Coating would be:
-two (2) molecules "thick".

•A two (2) µm thickness of a Coating would be:
-four (4) molecules "thick".

•But, at the molecular level:
-Aren't "things"...always in flux?


Bob
 
Lost me again...I think

Coating molecule:
-(100 times that of a wax?)...If true:
-4000-5000 Å (400-500 nm) in diameter

•500 nm = .5 µm


Does the calculation above propose that both the wax and OC are spread 1 molecule thick/deep

I know they claim that one layer of OC is 2 microns and that is 100 times thicker than a coat of wax
 
Bob, my commentary about using ~5 CCs is really not about getting away with using less, it's just what i've ended up needing with my process for certain vehicles getting coating on the paint and trim. i don't have profit margins to worry about in my garage, i promise! if i needed more, i'd use it. a few drops goes a long way with the neoprene pad. depending on the paint, ambient conditions and car, of course!

i honestly believe 2.0 to generally yield .5-1 micron and Pro to yield closer to 2.

so, if .5-1 is the number for 2.0, say, 1 for flats and closer to .5 for vertical panels, then the math definitely works out using Allen's math for 2.0. if it's 2 on the flats and closer to 1 on the vertical panels for Pro, the math also works out but gets a lot tighter. though, the chemistry is apparently different between them so that brings into the questions Allen has about that stuff.

but like i said in the other thread, i don't know enough about the tech or the math to cite real errors in the line of thinking Allen is tracking.
 
I think you must be correct that a single layer of OC 2.0 is probably closer to .5 microns when applied to a vehicle in the real world


hy would the thickness on horizontal surfaces be twice as thick as on the vertical surfaces?

"A few drops", should not go a long way based on the math. If we are to believe the 2 micron claim made by Dr. G
 
allenk4 said:
I have seen the thread that addressed if wax thickness was actually added when applying multiple coats

I have never seen anyone post actual measured thickness data for these types is coatings in a real world setting or from a lab

If anyone has, please add it to the thread, it would be great information
Click to expand...

This would be cool to see and I would be highly interested in the data.

The challenge is it's nearly impossible to measure the exact same point on the vehicle pre-coating and post-coating to get a legitimate reading. I think a laboratory setting would be the only way to get accurate measurements.

If you measure a panel with a PTG you can get 1-5um fluctuations simply by measuring a few centimeters apart.

Sent from my N9810 using AG Online
 
I don't think any of the portable PTG are accurate enough to measure a change of 2 microns

Even the really expensive Defelsko units are only accurate to +/- 1%
 
allenk4 said:
why would the thickness on horizontal surfaces be twice as thick as on the vertical surfaces?
Click to expand...

because i think it'd be easier to have extra on a flat surface vs. one that is vertical...sort of like paint. when you are talking microns, it's not hard to imagine that imo.

i don't know about double, but i'm thinking it might be thicker or thinner on one type vs. the other. might be totally incorrect though, i have no way to really prove the hypothesis :)
 
allenk4 said:
Does the calculation above propose that both the wax and OC are spread 1 molecule thick/deep
Click to expand...
So it would seem...Mathematically/Physics.

As proposed before:
•Different molecules of "substances" will have:
Different "molecular thicknesses" (per their diameters)

•Example:
-H2 = smallest possible molecule known to Man {o}
vs.
-Syn. Silicate = largest molecule known to Man {O}

•Side by side: o O...
-they're still just one molecule "thick".

•Same analogy applies for the Wax/Sealant molecules.


Bob
 
My 2c....

The thickness that a coating should be and the thickness it is applied at is very different. With the product we sell for automotive 'coating', you should be looking at 25ml to coat a medium sized vehicle, potentially 50ml for a large SUV. This should yield a coating in the region of a couple of microns. The trouble is when users get cute. They apply the product too thin, you then find that the results are not as optically superb as they should be and the durability can fail after a couple of years. Many coatings (OC I would include in here) are not like waxes and sealant, they are more like paints or varnishes.
 
FUNX725 said:
So it would seem...Mathematically/Physics.

As proposed before:
•Different molecules of "substances" will have:
Different "molecular thicknesses" (per their diameters)

•Example:
-H2 = smallest possible molecule known to Man {o}
vs.
-Syn. Silicate = largest molecule known to Man {O}

•Side by side: o O...
-they're still just one molecule "thick".

•Same analogy applies for the Wax/Sealant molecules.


Bob
Click to expand...

Good, no, GREAT analogy Bob!

Bill
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top