Trouble with S2000 Paint Correction and Meg's M205

[allenk4]

...
just see how much I can make it look better with minimal time, effort, and material. I'll save all the effort and material for someone who's paying for my time to do it correctly after I have it all sorted.

I suggest that you "practice" using the exact same techniques and materials and effort; you plan on using when you are getting paid for your effort

"Practice Perfect" or don't practice at all

You should stop immediately and postpone your efforts until you have the time and energy to do the job properly

 

[jaxtalonturbo]

I suggest that you "practice" using the exact same techniques and materials and effort; you plan on using when you are getting paid for your effort

"Practice Perfect" or don't practice at all

You should stop immediately and postpone your efforts until you have the time and energy to do the job properly

Well, I don't think I clearly articulated my idea, so let me try to be more precise: Due to the circumstances of this particular S2000 having a terrible respray from poor prep work (there are adhesion problems/chipping, overspray, inconsistency in application with heavy clear in some areas and very thin clear in others, heavy orange peel in some areas, etc), it is not possible to get this one "perfect". Doing so would lead me to trouble, so I'm aiming for 50% better until I get one that is safe to go 10/10 on. It's also a weekend car that does get miles and is somewhat abused, so it's pointless trying to give this car show quality (I'll post more photos later, but it's literally slammed on the ground with lots of negative camber and has damaged fender arches, grounded pinch welds, scraped and chipped out front bumper/lip etc).

This car was lent to me to to test out my technique and newly purchased products, the owner is aware of this and was not expecting the finish to be corrected completely. It's a win/win, as he's happy with just getting swirls out and having the compound removed from the seams from where the painter went over once with a rotary.

 

[jaxtalonturbo]

The aqua green Hex Logic? That's a really versatile pad, and my initial compounding pad with m105, or UC. That pad should work well with m205 as well.

Hmm, I'll keep that in mind for my next one. I found what seems to be working for me right now:

On panels that don't have heavy orange peel, I'm using Meg's microfiber cutting pads and D301. Afterwards I go over it with Meg's microfiber polishing pads and D302. All of the swirling is gone, and it seems to have a lot more clarity.

On the orange peel panels, I used to denim carpro pads with a previous poster's suggestion of using Meg's M100, and I found it a lot easier to work with. Nobody has chimed in though, I thought this stuff was for rotary use only? What's the cons of using this stuff in this method? After I pull out enough orange peel that I'm comfortable with, I go over it with the D302/MF polish pads and it looks good, and I can't see any hazing/marring/swirls when I pull it out into the direct sunlight.

Should I be using something before the D302 anyway? Should I seal this thing up for him afterwards regardless?

 

[Mach1USMC]

Personally I like M101 for Foam pads on either a rotary or DA. I've never tried denim pads. I only have foam and MF. I use MF primarily with the DA. I personally don't like M105 all that well but will use it if I run into some really thrashed paint.

I'm about to get some HD and Menzerna and see if they are easier to work with.

Also, I'd look at upgrading your buffer. You may need something stronger than a PC if you're going to detail professionally.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Mike,

I'm not sure if it was extreme heat that altered the product, but I do believe it to be defective. I actually just got this stuff in only a few days prior, so it couldn't have been heat from my garage.

IF it's thin and/or water like then it's defective. It should be rich in consistency and like a hand lotion not thin and watery.

I have indeed marked my backing plate to make sure the pad is spinning (I have your book and dvd haha).

Thank you for your purchase. I hope the info in the book and DVD has helped you....

I'm trying to use a slow arm motion, and apply 10-15lbs of pressure, but using a slow hand motion and working the product for anymore than 20-40 seconds will just cause the product to dry on, and then I'm spinning the pad dry... I believe that is where I'm getting my swirls.

Yeah that doesn't sound right.

I think I'm just going to ask them to swap out my 205 with another bottle. In the meantime, I'm going to replace using the 205 with something else.

Here's the picture you attached of your pad, it looks pretty thick to me....

If you have the second edition of my how to book, look at page 75 where you see a picture of a blue, Lake Country 5.5" Flat pad and see what it says in that section.

Been saying this for years now... when it comes to NON gear-driven dual action polishers....


Thin is in....


You will get so much better performance out of a thin pad than a thick pad. This means you'll be a LOT more effective at removing swirls faster and this simply gets the job done faster.

I also say this all the time,

Buffing a car out from start to finish already takes a LONG time... why would you want it to take any longer?

Thin is in...



Next time you need pads get these,


Lake Country

5.5" Flat Pads

In order from the most to the least aggressive

Yellow = Cutting pad (most aggressive)
Orange = Light Cutting Pad
White = Polishing Pad
Black = Finishing Pad
Blue = Waxing Pad (softest)

The outer edge of the face of these pads is tapered so they are actually a little under 5" in diameter

Approximately 7/8" thick

And you'll need a 5" backing plate to use them....


5" Backing Plate
Lake Country 5" DA Backing Plate <-- Get this one as the Velcro will match Lake Country Pads


The 5" Lake Country Backing Plates fits all popular dual action polishers including Porter Cable, Griot's Garage and Meguiar's.

 

[allenk4]

This car was lent to me to to test out my technique and newly purchased products, the owner is aware of this and was not expecting the finish to be corrected completely. It's a win/win, as he's happy with just getting swirls out and having the compound removed from the seams from where the painter went over once with a rotary.

Again, I would say...why not "practice perfect"

If you are limited on time; I would practice the Orange Peel Removal by getting a couple of the vertical panels perfect. This will allow you to work on using the technique that you will eventually use on Customer cars

You have a great opportunity with this "Donor Vehicle". Take your time and make the most of it.

 

[dlc95]

Hmm, I'll keep that in mind for my next one. I found what seems to be working for me right now:

On panels that don't have heavy orange peel, I'm using Meg's microfiber cutting pads and D301. Afterwards I go over it with Meg's microfiber polishing pads and D302. All of the swirling is gone, and it seems to have a lot more clarity.

On the orange peel panels, I used to denim carpro pads with a previous poster's suggestion of using Meg's M100, and I found it a lot easier to work with. Nobody has chimed in though, I thought this stuff was for rotary use only? What's the cons of using this stuff in this method? After I pull out enough orange peel that I'm comfortable with, I go over it with the D302/MF polish pads and it looks good, and I can't see any hazing/marring/swirls when I pull it out into the direct sunlight.

Should I be using something before the D302 anyway? Should I seal this thing up for him afterwards regardless?

I also picked up a couple of denim pads to practice with on my pc. Mike Phillips has a video showing the results of the denim pads on a pc. It Is possible. I haven't used mine yet.

Yes, if I need something more aggressive than the Green Hex Logic, I'll use the Yellow, or the Rupes blue microfiber cutting pad.

I'm still getting accustomed to the microfiber. The foam is just so much easier for me to work with.

On a side note, I also use a lot of Lake Country CCS pads. Their pink is similar to the Hex Logic Green, and the CCS Green Is similar to the Hex Logic Blue.

 

[allenk4]

Do a search of threads "CarPro Denim", there is good info spread throughout the Forum

After M100 and denim, you will likely still need to compound prior to polishing as the denim can be fairly harsh

I went

Denim/M100
FG400/Orange CCS
Total Swirl Remover
LSP

 

[jaxtalonturbo]

IF it's thin and/or water like then it's defective. It should be rich in consistency and like a hand lotion not thin and watery.




Thank you for your purchase. I hope the info in the book and DVD has helped you....

No need to thank me, I actually thought it was unusual that someone like you has such a presence in a place like this, giving lots of free advice to novices and experts alike, and that made an impression on me. I appreciate any insight, it goes without saying that I'm sure everyone here does. The book is a great guide and goes hand in hand with your posts on this forum, which is great. The learning curve is steep, but it's great you and the forum make it that much more attainable.

Yeah that doesn't sound right.

Can't blame it all on the stuff in the bottle, but at least I know it's some of the problem.

Here's the picture you attached of your pad, it looks pretty thick to me....

If you have the second edition of my how to book, look at page 75 where you see a picture of a blue, Lake Country 5.5" Flat pad and see what it says in that section.

Been saying this for years now... when it comes to NON gear-driven dual action polishers....


Thin is in....


You will get so much better performance out of a thin pad than a thick pad. This means you'll be a LOT more effective at removing swirls faster and this simply gets the job done faster.

Just even having two entry level machines, the Rupes 21 and the PC, it's ridiculous how many sizes and types of pads should be in the enthusiasts' arsenal, let alone a pro. I'm starting to see that now. I know you prefer the hydrotech pads over the CCS pads, and I'm starting to see why after trying an AIO on an S10 today, they do work a lot faster. Problem is I don't have enough of them, and enough of the small ones too. I've got to change that, and also add a smaller and bigger machine to my box (like Griots 3" mini and a Flex or Rotary for when I'm ready to get the hang of one.

The majority of my pads are the super thick 6.5 CCS pads in every color, and about 6 of each. Are these even too much for something like the Rupes? I know the Rupes "prefers" it's own system of pads/polishes, but is it too much to ask that machine to spin that pad?

Again, I would say...why not "practice perfect"

If you are limited on time; I would practice the Orange Peel Removal by getting a couple of the vertical panels perfect. This will allow you to work on using the technique that you will eventually use on Customer cars

You have a great opportunity with this "Donor Vehicle". Take your time and make the most of it.

Agreed, and point taken. I'm doing everything I can to make my friend happy and make the most of my time I put in to try to do my best.

I also picked up a couple of denim pads to practice with on my pc. Mike Phillips has a video showing the results of the denim pads on a pc. It Is possible. I haven't used mine yet.

Yes, if I need something more aggressive than the Green Hex Logic, I'll use the Yellow, or the Rupes blue microfiber cutting pad.

I'm still getting accustomed to the microfiber. The foam is just so much easier for me to work with.

On a side note, I also use a lot of Lake Country CCS pads. Their pink is similar to the Hex Logic Green, and the CCS Green Is similar to the Hex Logic Blue.

I have found working with the MF pads to be easier for me so far over the CCS pads, but I think Mike's right in saying that I need a thinner pad than the ones I have. I need to invest in some of the flat foam/hydrotech ones soon.

 

[dlc95]

I have found working with the MF pads to be easier for me so far over the CCS pads, but I think Mike's right in saying that I need a thinner pad than the ones I have. I need to invest in some of the flat foam/hydrotech ones soon.

I find that the microfiber definitely corrects faster. I do love using them too, as they have such a crisp, responsive "feel", and of course fast results. I just find that I have to clean them much more often than the foam.

I've been wanting to check out the Cyan hydrotech pad specifically, but from what I understand, it's about as aggressive as my yellow CCS pads, but finishes out better. This makes sense as the Hydrotech is a closed cell pad design, where I'm assuming that the firmness of the pad will determine correction ability.