Sealant + Wax longevity

[Stone150]

I have been trying out different products lately, but in any case I usually do a sealant topped with a wax. I know most sealants are rated for about 6 months, but will adding layers of wax every month or 2 extend this?

I have been using Jetseal, but I question it's effectiveness. I would like to try the Menzerna power lock sealant and Ammo stuff. I usually do a overall detail on my cars ever 6 months or so and dry with spray sealant or quick detailer. but in case I have to go an extra month or so, or the weather is particularly bad, I like to know the protection is there.

 

[expdetailing]

Stick with the power lock. It's reputation is more than good. If you buy both, I feel, you will be buying too much product for one vehicle.
Besides, menzerna doesn't sell a $2 sponge on their site for $10 like ammo does.

 

[wdmaccord]

I use BFWD in the summer, topped with 2 coats of BF Crystal Seal. Then each wash I either finish with BF Polymer Spray or Midnight Sun ID...so I am always adding back some protection each wash. I still have good protection when I do my fall stripdown/detail (based on beading).

I do usually put some BFMS paste wax on the side mirrors, lower 1/3 of the hood, and front bumper in the summer (about once a month) to help the bugs wash off easier.

 

[Kamakaz1961]

Stick with the power lock. It's reputation is more than good. If you buy both, I feel, you will be buying too much product for one vehicle.
Besides, menzerna doesn't sell a $2 sponge on their site for $10 like ammo does.

:iagree: Menzerna Powerlock IMO is one of the best sealants around...PERIOD!! I do put a quality wax on top of it and IMO the depth, gloss and wet look is unreal! Powerlock is a great choice. Wolfgang and Blackfire Sealants are also top notch!!

 

[FUNX650]

I have been trying out different products lately, but in any case I usually do a sealant topped with a wax. I know most sealants are rated for about 6 months, but will adding layers of wax every month or 2 extend this?

First:
Both the Sealant and Wax are "sacrificial barriers" (~M.P.).

Second:
Now whether by adding the Wax on top of the Sealant will, in effect, provide for: two separate sacrificial barrier film-layers; or act as a sacrificial barrier for the Sealant...is ofttimes debated.

Thirdly:
Instead of going into that arena...
I'll say that by adding a fresh coat/layer of Wax every 30 days, or so, will more than likely guarantee that the previous coat/layer of Wax has not completely eroded away. Think of it as preventative maintenance (PM).

Lastly:
•I don't think anyone can really say for sure how much, if any, of the original Sealant would still be present when the Wax is first applied on top of it, or at any given time during the above PM-periods.

•That in itself may be enough incentive for you to re-apply the Wax before all of the last Wax application has met its Waterloo.


Bob

 

[Zubair]

I've had sealants topped with waxes, durability,looks and beading always took on the last product used but I live in a different continent and climate so can't speak for all. I have currently tested Power Lock and BF Wet Diamond and starting to test WG Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0

 

[cardaddy]

IMO your PL is pretty darned good on it's own. If you want to try something else, (still perhaps in the Menz family) I'd say get a bottle of WFDGPS 3.0. It is stunning!

For durability between your 6 month cycle one of the very best spray wax/sealants out there is Duragloss 951. (We all know it's not a wax.... sealant all the way.) DG951 is super slick, and has amazing durability, often far outlasting the typical cycles between most peoples washing periods. If you're washing every couple weeks, even once a month it'll still be providing protection. rops:

 

[Stone150]

Stick with the power lock. It's reputation is more than good. If you buy both, I feel, you will be buying too much product for one vehicle.
Besides, menzerna doesn't sell a $2 sponge on their site for $10 like ammo does.

I recently purchased the color lock wax, It looked good and came off easily. I own 4 cars, and pick up the odd detailing job from people at my office or long running customers when I did it on a full time basis. I like to try different products and see how they stack up in different conditions and washing regiments. My wife's car it garaged at nigh, my main car is garaged duirng the day but left out side at night. My "sports" car only comes out during good weather and the truck is either garaged or sitting outside when i'm using it.

when driven,they are basically washed on a weekly basis, or washed right before going back in "storage."

I'll agree the prices on "things" at ammo is steep, but the products are inline with others, just no bulk products.

:iagree: Menzerna Powerlock IMO is one of the best sealants around...PERIOD!! I do put a quality wax on top of it and IMO the depth, gloss and wet look is unreal! Powerlock is a great choice. Wolfgang and Blackfire Sealants are also top notch!!

Thanks for the info!

First:
Both the Sealant and Wax are "sacrificial barriers" (~M.P.).

Second:
Now whether by adding the Wax on top of the Sealant will, in effect, provide for: two separate sacrificial barrier film-layers; or act as a sacrificial barrier for the Sealant...is ofttimes debated.

Thirdly:
Instead of going into that arena...
I'll say that by adding a fresh coat/layer of Wax every 30 days, or so, will more than likely guarantee that the previous coat/layer of Wax has not completely eroded away. Think of it as preventative maintenance (PM).

Lastly:
•I don't think anyone can really say for sure how much, if any, of the original Sealant would still be present when the Wax is first applied on top of it, or at any given time during the above PM-periods.

•That in itself may be enough incentive for you to re-apply the Wax before all of the last Wax application has met its Waterloo.


Bob

I guess I've always looked at it as the sealant as a harder base barrier with a softer wax barrier on top that looks good and gets replenished more often, but all are there to guard against acid rain (got screwed last time), bird droppings, and etc.

I've had sealants topped with waxes, durability,looks and beading always took on the last product used but I live in a different continent and climate so can't speak for all. I have currently tested Power Lock and BF Wet Diamond and starting to test WG Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0

Do you have a favorite?

IMO your PL is pretty darned good on it's own. If you want to try something else, (still perhaps in the Menz family) I'd say get a bottle of WFDGPS 3.0. It is stunning!

For durability between your 6 month cycle one of the very best spray wax/sealants out there is Duragloss 951. (We all know it's not a wax.... sealant all the way.) DG951 is super slick, and has amazing durability, often far outlasting the typical cycles between most peoples washing periods. If you're washing every couple weeks, even once a month it'll still be providing protection. rops:

I'll have to check it out.


Any consensus on the effectiveness of CG JetSeal?

I've noticed that when I wash my wife's car, it almost always beads up beautifully but on my car, after the wash it doesn't bead well, if at all. It will bead in the rain or when I first wet it, but after I apply the soap, the hood just sheets not beads.

 

[custmsprty]

Stick with the power lock. It's reputation is more than good. If you buy both, I feel, you will be buying too much product for one vehicle.
Besides, menzerna doesn't sell a $2 sponge on their site for $10 like ammo does.

Or $60.00 for a wheel brush!

 

[Zubair]

Yes I do have a favourite, will do a write up in a couple of weeks as I need time with WGDGPS before I come to a conclusion of the famous trio.

 

[HateSwirls]

I don't notice any difference in longevity by topping a good sealant as Wolfgang or DP Poli-Coat with a wax.
However, topping a sealant with a good carnauba wax may offer a little warmth to the finish.

 

[Stone150]

Thanks again for the help, I think the #1 thing at this point is to keep experimenting, I am not too pleased with the durability on my main car, I think part of it is that I have been topping it with CG buttery wax and while I think the look is good, the durability seems to be far less than my previous go to: meguiars #26.

 

[FUNX650]

I guess I've always looked at it as the sealant as a harder base barrier with a softer wax barrier on top that looks good and gets replenished more often...

Sounds like you believe that building separate film-layers, by "topping", is a reality.

but all are there to guard against acid rain (got screwed last time), bird droppings, and etc.

What substance(s) left their guard down...
in order for acid rain to screw you last time?


Bob

 

[swanicyouth]

Topping is a myth. The solvents in the wax you top with will remove the sealant. Waxes can have 20%+ solvents in them (like mineral spirits, etc...). This will remove any sealant.

What you end up with is a blend of 2 products on the surface with the last applied product predominating.

 

[Stone150]

Sounds like you believe that building separate film-layers, by "topping", is a reality.


What substance(s) left their guard down...
in order for acid rain to screw you last time?


Bob

Well I did :/

Jet Seal, but I am not too sure anything would have worked. I live in Houston and we had big storm come through, but we caught the edge of the storm. We only had enough rain to pull the polution out of the air, drop it on the car, but not wash anything away. It was 4 days before I washed the car and it was August. I had some other wax on the car on it at the time.

Topping is a myth. The solvents in the wax you top with will remove the sealant. Waxes can have 20%+ solvents in them (like mineral spirits, etc...). This will remove any sealant.

What you end up with is a blend of 2 products on the surface with the last applied product predominating.

I thought this might be the case, if not just the mechanical action of putting the wax on.

Then what is the point of owning all waxes if you use sealant? I've always herd you can top a sealant with a wax, but not vice-versa.

 

[Audios S6]

Topping is a myth. The solvents in the wax you top with will remove the sealant. Waxes can have 20%+ solvents in them (like mineral spirits, etc...). This will remove any sealant.

What you end up with is a blend of 2 products on the surface with the last applied product predominating.

Is this based on your exhaustive torture testing of several waxes and sealants on a window? I don't recall there being any solvents in the testing, but I am inclined to take your word for it.

 

[swanicyouth]

Is this based on your exhaustive torture testing of several waxes and sealants on a window? I don't recall there being any solvents in the testing, but I am inclined to take your word for it.

There is solvents in every wax. Any solvent will remove wax and sealants.

 

[swanicyouth]

Err. I meant to say any solvents used to make wax useable

 

[Stone150]

There is solvents in every wax. Any solvent will remove wax and sealants.

So from reading up a bit, it seems as if part of the issue is putting a wax on the sealant immediately and not allowing it to bond properly. but say you put a sealant down, then a wax in a week after a wash then the wax won't attack the sealant as much.

 

[Audios S6]

Err. I meant to say any solvents used to make wax useable

I will qualify this by saying that I do not explicitly disagree with your assessment, and have quite a healthy respect for your testing and based on your career, what I imagine is a solid understanding of chemistry and biochemistry (pharm d, right?)

I have been known to use body prep solvent and it can take numerous applications and dwell time to strip a quality sealant like BFWD or PL. I now just resort to a polish if I really need to strip something.

The particular body prep solvent I use contains naphtha and xylene, both of which are stronger than the solvents you typically find in a quality wax. Strictly anecdotal evidence, but it leads me to believe that some sealant would remain under a wax and that layering is possible. But that is not to suggest that the layering provides any benefit or is desirable.

To the contrary, paint cleaners contain some of the same solvents as waxes and are generally thought to clean and strip paint. Like does dissolve like.

DWG and WG2.0 were always advertised as being able to apply over or under any product without issue. The idea that a wax can strip a durable sealant makes the long held idea of locking in a glaze absurd. A glaze not nearly as durable as a sealant would never hold up to a wax topping. Again, not explicitly disagreeing with you, just pointing out an implication.

When I have made wax, dumping carnauba flake into solvent resulted in nothing, the solution needed to be heated to dissolve the carnauba flake. Although this is quite different chemistry than sealant; I have seen industrial recipes for sealant and all specified heat. The recipes I have seen were from DOW and Gelest IIRC.

I have now put myself in a position where I must gather up my body prep solvent and go try to strip some sealant in a cold garage tonight. Thanks for that Steve!