How many pads do I need to buff out my car?

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Thank you Mike for this thread, I was just thinking about this as I am new to DA's.

One question I have is, how do pad washers come into play?

For example, can you wash your cutting pad, spin dry, re-prime and continue using it or is it recommended to still use a new dry pad since the washed pad will be damp?

Great question.

You can wash and spin dry a pad in a pad washer and then put it back into use.

Or wash and spin dry a pad and then dry it like I show in the below article and put it back into use but on a free spinning dual action polisher the pad still won't rotate or cut as well as a dry foam pad.


How to dry a foam pad after hand washing

If you have clean dry pads for the project in front of you it will be faster to switch to a clean, dry pad and then at the end of the project use the pad washer to wash your pads and then place them some place to dry overnight.

:xyxthumbs:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

thank you and quick question, are the CG Hexlogic pads equivalent to the LC Flat?

I've never used the Hexlogic pads myself they don't make logic to me however as I am a flat pad kind of guy. A flat surface makes so much more sense for all aspects of buffing paint.

I read a review in which you really liked the new Meg's pads.. what about those? BTW, I have a 7424XP

That would be this article lots of pictures showing the new Meguiar's thin foam pads in action plus an amazing transformation of a completely swirled out Camaro getting fixed.

NEW! Meguiar’s Foam Buffing Discs

And yes I like them. The foam resin or form formula Meguiar's uses for their three types of foam pads is a proven formula and the thinness of the pads helps make it easier for dual action polishers to maintain pad rotation.

Hard to believe it's take so many years for foam pads to get thinner.

With having a pad washer, a pad cleaning brush, and "cleaning on the fly", I have not had the need for multiple numbers of pads for each process (compounding, polishing, and sealing/waxing.)


Am I missing something? Please advise.

Roger T

Hey if you have a system in place that works for you then that's all that matters and you're not missing a thing.


:xyxthumbs:

 

[jswift79]

cam i use the Lake Country CCS Black Pads for applying sealant/liquid wax?

 

[Souldetailer]

Absolutely. Check out the AG store for all your pad needs.

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

If you have clean dry pads for the project in front of you it will be faster to switch to a clean, dry pad and then at the end of the project use the pad washer to wash your pads and then place them some place to dry overnight.

:iagree:

 

[tenblade2001]

Mike, what is the rationale of choosing the LC flat pad vs. Hydrotech for 7424xp (if I'm using the Wolfgrang Trio). thanks

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Mike, what is the rationale of choosing the LC flat pad vs. Hydrotech for 7424xp (if I'm using the Wolfgrang Trio).

thanks

Just personal preference.


In both the first edition and second edition of my how-to book I recommend simple open cell foam flat pads for newbies or people new to machine polishing because I believe when a person is just starting out to reduce the potential for any problems.

Flat faced foam pads are the most simple design when it comes to a foam buffing pad and the flat design reduces the potential for any problems when buffing pad including uniform break down of products that use diminishing abrasives.

Flat pads area also much easier to clean on the fly and open cell pads are easier to both clean and dry.

I cover pretty much everything about foam pads you can think of on pages 55 to 78 in the first edition and pages 72 to 91 in the second edition.

 

[Odisious]

Do MF pads take longer to reach maximum saturation compared to foam? (I've never used MF pads, didn't know if they are head and shoulders above foam or not.)

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Do MF pads take longer to reach maximum saturation compared to foam?

I'd say kind yes because the liquid in whatever product you're using tends to be focused more on the paint instead of having a thick foam backing to soak into.

Kind of depends on the brand too... some microfiber pads are designed to resist liquids better than others.

The big picture with microfiber pads is,

1. They offer more defect removal simply because fibers are a type of abrasive.

2. Like any pad you need to clean them often, like after each section pass.

3. Like any detailing projects, it's better to switch to clean, dry microfiber pads often versus trying to buff out an entire car with one or two pads.

 

[jwgreen6]

How many pads do I need to buff out my car?


Some guys try to buff out entire cars with a single pad per product. That's usually due to inexperience. Thus when they make their initial purchase they don't know to get more pads versus less pads.

Once a person gets into the middle of the correction step and their one or two foam pads are wet with product, (pad saturation), and if they're paying attention they notice it's taking longer to get the same work done than when they first started with a clean, dry pad, then it starts to sink in that more pads are better.

The correction step is the most pad intensive step so get more correction pads, these would be cutting pads.

Polishing goes faster as you're only cleaning up what the correction step left behind and maximizing gloss and clarity.

If you machine apply your waxes and sealants then you really only need one pad for this step.


For a 1965 Mustang or for a 2015 Honda Accord and the paint is trashed, that is filled with swirls, scratches, water spots and oxidation, then here's a good rule of thumb for the optimum number of pads to have on hand assuming you're using a Porter Cable type dual action polisher.

Porter Cable 7424XP
Correction = Orange LC Flat Pad
Polishing = White or Black LC Flat Pad
Sealing = Blue LC Flat Pad

Correction step = 6 pads
1 for the hood
1 for the roof and trunk lid
2 for driver's side
2 for passenger side


Polishing step = 4 pads (You could probably get away with 3 if you use 1 for hood, roof and trunk lid)

1 for the hood
1 for the roof and trunk lid
1 for driver's side
1 for passenger side

Sealing the paint step = 1 waxing pad
Use over entire vehicle




For a Flex 3401
Correction = Orange Hybrid
Polishing = White Hybrid
Sealing = Black Hybrid

From experience, you can push the orange hybrid pads further than most pads plus the Flex 3401 simply doesn't care if the pads are wet with product it's going to rotate them no matter what. Not that using a squishy wet pad is a good thing just saying...

One thing for sure, a fresh, clean, dry orange hybrid pad with a top notch compound cuts fast on the Flex 3401.

Correction step = 6 pads
1 for the hood
1 for the roof and trunk lid
2 for driver's side
2 for passenger side

Polishing step = 4 pads (You could probably get away with 3 if you use 1 for hood, roof and trunk lid)

1 for the hood
1 for the roof and trunk lid
1 for driver's side
1 for passenger side

Sealing the paint step = 1 waxing pad
Use over entire vehicle



For Rupes Bigfoot

Same as pads for a Porter Cable. Basically, more is better and as soon as any pad starts to become wet with product it's going to be faster and more effective to switch to a clean, dry pad.




Big picture...

Being able to switch to a clean dry pad always trumps plowing through with a wet soggy pad. Foam pads become wet or saturated with product the longer you buff, that's just the nature of foam and liquids.

A fresh, clean dry pad works better, whether it's for major correction work or minor polishing work.

A fresh, clean dry pad make you and your time more effective and enables you to do any paint polishing process as fast as possible.

Switching to a fresh clean, dry pad OFTEN means less wear-n-tear on pads in general and you'll get more use or extended life out of each pad overall. Pushing a pad to the point that it's completely saturated with product wears out the foam, the Velcro and the adhesive faster than stopping the use of the pad after a panel or two.

Buffing with wet pads increases the heat retention inside the pad and to the backing plate and heat is never a good thing in any buffing process.

There's only positive aspects to having more pads as compared to having less pads.



Buffing Pads on Autogeek.net




:dblthumb2:

Mike -- How does the pad usage add up when using a rotary polisher?

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Mike -- How does the pad usage add up when using a rotary polisher?

Same practice when using foam pads, less important when using wool pads.

Foam pads will become wet or saturated with use when using a rotary buffer and their performance will fall off. This is true for both extremes of rotary buffer work from heavy cutting with a compound and aggressive foam cutting pad to jewelling with an ultra fine cut polish and a soft jeweling pad.


With wool pads you're primarily only doing the cutting or correction step and what you should be doing is cleaning the pad using a steel pad cleaning spur after each section buffed. By cleaning often with a spur you refresh the pad plus fluff up the fibers restoring it's cutting ability.

For large jobs or really important jobs you can switch out to clean, dry pads often if you choose to and are able to.

I think I used 2 electrified wool polishing pads when I did the first ever time-lapse capture of a full wetsand, cut and buff job on this 1964 Malibu...

[video=youtube_share;5zDuFzvKSAI"]How to wet sand a car[/video]​

 

[rah28]

How many pads do I need to buff out my car?


Some guys try to buff out entire cars with a single pad per product. That's usually due to inexperience. Thus when they make their initial purchase they don't know to get more pads versus less pads.

Once a person gets into the middle of the correction step and their one or two foam pads are wet with product, (pad saturation), and if they're paying attention they notice it's taking longer to get the same work done than when they first started with a clean, dry pad, then it starts to sink in that more pads are better.

The correction step is the most pad intensive step so get more correction pads, these would be cutting pads.

Polishing goes faster as you're only cleaning up what the correction step left behind and maximizing gloss and clarity.

If you machine apply your waxes and sealants then you really only need one pad for this step.


For a 1965 Mustang or for a 2015 Honda Accord and the paint is trashed, that is filled with swirls, scratches, water spots and oxidation, then here's a good rule of thumb for the optimum number of pads to have on hand assuming you're using a Porter Cable type dual action polisher.

Porter Cable 7424XP
Correction = Orange LC Flat Pad
Polishing = White or Black LC Flat Pad
Sealing = Blue LC Flat Pad

Correction step = 6 pads
1 for the hood
1 for the roof and trunk lid
2 for driver's side
2 for passenger side


Polishing step = 4 pads (You could probably get away with 3 if you use 1 for hood, roof and trunk lid)

1 for the hood
1 for the roof and trunk lid
1 for driver's side
1 for passenger side

Sealing the paint step = 1 waxing pad
Use over entire vehicle




For a Flex 3401
Correction = Orange Hybrid
Polishing = White Hybrid
Sealing = Black Hybrid

From experience, you can push the orange hybrid pads further than most pads plus the Flex 3401 simply doesn't care if the pads are wet with product it's going to rotate them no matter what. Not that using a squishy wet pad is a good thing just saying...

One thing for sure, a fresh, clean, dry orange hybrid pad with a top notch compound cuts fast on the Flex 3401.

Correction step = 6 pads
1 for the hood
1 for the roof and trunk lid
2 for driver's side
2 for passenger side

Polishing step = 4 pads (You could probably get away with 3 if you use 1 for hood, roof and trunk lid)

1 for the hood
1 for the roof and trunk lid
1 for driver's side
1 for passenger side

Sealing the paint step = 1 waxing pad
Use over entire vehicle



For Rupes Bigfoot

Same as pads for a Porter Cable. Basically, more is better and as soon as any pad starts to become wet with product it's going to be faster and more effective to switch to a clean, dry pad.




Big picture...

Being able to switch to a clean dry pad always trumps plowing through with a wet soggy pad. Foam pads become wet or saturated with product the longer you buff, that's just the nature of foam and liquids.

A fresh, clean dry pad works better, whether it's for major correction work or minor polishing work.

A fresh, clean dry pad make you and your time more effective and enables you to do any paint polishing process as fast as possible.

Switching to a fresh clean, dry pad OFTEN means less wear-n-tear on pads in general and you'll get more use or extended life out of each pad overall. Pushing a pad to the point that it's completely saturated with product wears out the foam, the Velcro and the adhesive faster than stopping the use of the pad after a panel or two.

Buffing with wet pads increases the heat retention inside the pad and to the backing plate and heat is never a good thing in any buffing process.

There's only positive aspects to having more pads as compared to having less pads.



Buffing Pads on Autogeek.net




:dblthumb2:

Good article Mike.

How many wool pads do we need for paint correction using a rotary on a vehicle like a Honda Accord?

 

[65vw]

Great Info and I had wondered how often if at all the pads should be changed when polishing/waxing.

One only for waxing makes sense and I dedicated a pad for all wax jobs because cleaning wax out of the pad, even with pad cleaner, was not possible.

I guess I better add a bucket load of pads to my next order since all the pads I have on hand now would need to be used per the recommendations. Getting two of each color, orange, white, black, and blue, seemed like a lot but I guess not.

Those tables in the first post of this thread look nicely stocked!

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

For everyone that will read this thread into the future....


Foam pad failure due to heat from using too few pads

 

[dlc95]

I've bumped up the amount of cutting and polishing pads to eight! And finishing pads to four.

 

[LSNAutoDetailingLSNAutoDetailing is verified member.]

Q1: Mike, so as I'm reading this, even if one is following the "how to clean your pad(s) on the fly" it's still advantageous to go with 6 pads?

Q2: Now that I've switched to the G-15, the CCS pads hold up better than the flat pads. So the same solutions would apply to the G-15? 1+1+2+2 (6) pads?

Q3: Last question Mike, what is the longevity of your pads, i.e. how many times will you use them before discarding? I have a wash routine I follow after every job, I use XMT pad cleaner, pad brush, rinse thoroughly then spin dry on the DA. After that I throw them in the washer and let them sit on a rack to dry (much like you do in your picture). The pads come out great, and look new, but I'm sure there is degradation.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Q1: Mike, so as I'm reading this, even if one is following the "how to clean your pad(s) on the fly" it's still advantageous to go with 6 pads?

Yes.

More pad are better

You can never have too many pads. In a perfect world you would use a clean, dry pad for each panel and two pads for super large panels.

Now follow me on this....

By using more pads your pads will last lover over all. This means you'll get more life out of them overall.

You'll also get better results faster. This is especially true whenever you're doing any compounding with a foam cutting pad.

Why?

Because as foam gets wet or saturated the aggressiveness falls off sharply this means you're not cutting or abrading as fast or as effective.


When I buffed out this old 2-door Chrysler in this article,


How to use the Flex 3401 for Show Car Detailing

I think I went through seven 6.5" orange hybrid foam cutting pads and 3-4 5" orange hybrid foam cutting pads. Maybe more. I'm sure I have a picture of all the used pads on my roll-around tray in front of the car somewhere, I'll try to find it.

Point being, I was doing show car detailing and I wanted the best results but I also wanted them as fast as I could get them, so I used a fresh, DRY foam cutting pad often as I worked around the car and if you click the link below and look at how the paint STARTED out you'll see why.

How to use the Flex 3401 for Show Car Detailing



Here's what I tell people on the phone or on the forum....

More pads are better - let your budget be your guide.

Sure we sell pads but I'm not telling you this type of information to try to sell you more pads. That's not how I work and that's not how I've ever worked in this industry. I'm telling you this because that's the reality of how foam pads and the compounding and polishing process works.

Oscillating polishers PUNISH foam pads. It's a violent action that includes downward pressure, heat and time. AT some point... something has to give. Usually your pads wear out before your polisher.

Q2: Now that I've switched to the G-15, the CCS pads hold up better than the flat pads. So the same solutions would apply to the G-15? 1+1+2+2 (6) pads?

Well the CCS pads a a LOT thicker than the Griot's BOSS pads. As long as you're getting good rotation then go with them. Usually thicker pads don't rotate as well on free spinning DA polishers that's why you see this trend for THIN pads and that's why if you look at the BOSS pads they are thin too.

So again, thick pads last longer than thin pads they just don't tend to rotate as well. If you're happy with pad rotation for the thicker pads then go with it and "yes" you can get away with less pad to a point.

A thicker pad will hold more liquid and thus will become heavier and less apt to rotate as it becomes saturated with liquid than a thin pad.

Q3: Last question Mike, what is the longevity of your pads, i.e. how many times will you use them before discarding?

I use pads till they are completely spent. I use my common sense and "look" at the pads and as long as they are safe to use I continue to use them. Once the face is so worn or the velcro backing is coming off then it's time to replace them.

I have a wash routine I follow after every job, I use XMT pad cleaner, pad brush, rinse thoroughly then spin dry on the DA. After that I throw them in the washer and let them sit on a rack to dry (much like you do in your picture). The pads come out great, and look new, but I'm sure there is degradation.

Everything wears out over time and use.... even you and me....


Good questions.

 

[wytstang]

Great info and should be a sticky

 

[AGOatemywallet]

Mike P,

Can you please post some photos of pads that are "Done"

I think I may be tossing mine out too soon

Thanks

 

[LSNAutoDetailingLSNAutoDetailing is verified member.]

thank you Mike!