LC 6" Orange flat pad collapsed.

[Souldetailer]

First time I used it and the middle collapsed inward. Looks like a very shallow bowl. Used 2 others in the same manner, applying
Menzerna FG400 to my wife's Civic and had no problems.
What happened ? :buffing:

 

[Souldetailer]

First time I used it and the middle collapsed inward. Looks like a very shallow bowl. Used 2 others in the same manner, applying
Menzerna FG400 to my wife's Civic and had no problems.
What happened ? :buffing:

Sorry meant 6 1/2"

 

[af90]

Pictures please.

 

[cardaddy]

First time I used it and the middle collapsed inward. Looks like a very shallow bowl. Used 2 others in the same manner, applying
Menzerna FG400 to my wife's Civic and had no problems.
What happened ? :buffing:

That's an easy one, you overheated the pad. Shortly after that it would come completely apart.

How long did you use it?

How much of the vehicle did you do?

With a cutting compound you build heat MUCH MORE QUICKLY, AND MUCH MORE HEAT than you do when polishing.

You should have AT LEAST 4, preferably 6 pads to compound with. The hood alone would take 2 pads. Front fenders and half the door, 1 pad. Rest of the door and front of the quarter panel, another pad. Roof, (depending on size) 2 pads. That leaves 1 for the trunk. And of course do the bumpers last and rocker panels (as they are the dirtiest) and you might be able to do both with a single pad. Now of course that adds up to 10 pads, and you don't need THAT many.

The trick is to rotate your pads into and out of duty while doing similar sized areas as I mentioned. First in, first out. It'll not hurt a pad to sit there, cooling off Velcro side up on a grate (or on a plastic Coke crate) while you are working with another one, and another one, and another one. Do it like that and you can use as few as 4 pads, just make sure the first one has cooled before you put it back into service.

How hot is too hot?
Pull the pad from the machine, feel the BACK of it with the back of your hand, or better yet put the back of it against your cheek. If it's anything more than warm, DO NOT USE IT ANYMORE. (Till it's cooled off.)

Heat of course builds up on the surface, but it also builds up between the Velcro side and the backing plate from nothing more than friction. It can escape the face much easier, but the back doesn't vent, therefore the heat has nowhere to go. This was so bad in the early days of the Meguiar's microfiber pads that the pads were failing. The engineers went to school on it and found out that the Velcro side of the pad was a significant part of that heat problem. So they came out with their own backing plate to be used with THEIR pad(s) and after that you hardly ever hear about premature pad failure (like those early days).

 

[VISITOR]

what machine, size of backing plate, and speed were you using?

 

[ski2]

In addition to cardaddy's great advice--clean your pad "on the fly" with a brush and/or towel after every other section at a minimum.

 

[Souldetailer]

That's an easy one, you overheated the pad. Shortly after that it would come completely apart.

How long did you use it?

How much of the vehicle did you do?

With a cutting compound you build heat MUCH MORE QUICKLY, AND MUCH MORE HEAT than you do when polishing.

You should have AT LEAST 4, preferably 6 pads to compound with. The hood alone would take 2 pads. Front fenders and half the door, 1 pad. Rest of the door and front of the quarter panel, another pad. Roof, (depending on size) 2 pads. That leaves 1 for the trunk. And of course do the bumpers last and rocker panels (as they are the dirtiest) and you might be able to do both with a single pad. Now of course that adds up to 10 pads, and you don't need THAT many.

The trick is to rotate your pads into and out of duty while doing similar sized areas as I mentioned. First in, first out. It'll not hurt a pad to sit there, cooling off Velcro side up on a grate (or on a plastic Coke crate) while you are working with another one, and another one, and another one. Do it like that and you can use as few as 4 pads, just make sure the first one has cooled before you put it back into service.

How hot is too hot?
Pull the pad from the machine, feel the BACK of it with the back of your hand, or better yet put the back of it against your cheek. If it's anything more than warm, DO NOT USE IT ANYMORE. (Till it's cooled off.)

Heat of course builds up on the surface, but it also builds up between the Velcro side and the backing plate from nothing more than friction. It can escape the face much easier, but the back doesn't vent, therefore the heat has nowhere to go. This was so bad in the early days of the Meguiar's microfiber pads that the pads were failing. The engineers went to school on it and found out that the Velcro side of the pad was a significant part of that heat problem. So they came out with their own backing plate to be used with THEIR pad(s) and after that you hardly ever hear about premature pad failure (like those early days).

Thanks Tony,

This was it, I pushed that pad a little too far, I realize that now. Thanks again, lesson learned. Take care.

Peace,

Darrin

 

[tuscarora dave]

That's an easy one, you overheated the pad. Shortly after that it would come completely apart.

How long did you use it?

How much of the vehicle did you do?

With a cutting compound you build heat MUCH MORE QUICKLY, AND MUCH MORE HEAT than you do when polishing.

You should have AT LEAST 4, preferably 6 pads to compound with. The hood alone would take 2 pads. Front fenders and half the door, 1 pad. Rest of the door and front of the quarter panel, another pad. Roof, (depending on size) 2 pads. That leaves 1 for the trunk. And of course do the bumpers last and rocker panels (as they are the dirtiest) and you might be able to do both with a single pad. Now of course that adds up to 10 pads, and you don't need THAT many.

The trick is to rotate your pads into and out of duty while doing similar sized areas as I mentioned. First in, first out. It'll not hurt a pad to sit there, cooling off Velcro side up on a grate (or on a plastic Coke crate) while you are working with another one, and another one, and another one. Do it like that and you can use as few as 4 pads, just make sure the first one has cooled before you put it back into service.

How hot is too hot?
Pull the pad from the machine, feel the BACK of it with the back of your hand, or better yet put the back of it against your cheek. If it's anything more than warm, DO NOT USE IT ANYMORE. (Till it's cooled off.)

Heat of course builds up on the surface, but it also builds up between the Velcro side and the backing plate from nothing more than friction. It can escape the face much easier, but the back doesn't vent, therefore the heat has nowhere to go. This was so bad in the early days of the Meguiar's microfiber pads that the pads were failing. The engineers went to school on it and found out that the Velcro side of the pad was a significant part of that heat problem. So they came out with their own backing plate to be used with THEIR pad(s) and after that you hardly ever hear about premature pad failure (like those early days).

:iagree: Great post Tony.

I'll add that (as like many of us) in the early days of learning how to compound and polish paint, I found that I had a tendency to use way too much product. The "less is more" rule of thumb came pretty slowly for me. The better I got at using less product, the fewer times I saw my foam pads collapsing from over-saturation / overheating. I believe a pad can be overheated using very little product, depending on machine speed, downward pressure, working on curved panels etc.

Factor in the over application of product to the point that the foam inside the pad actually becomes wet with product, then you have a definite recipe to increase the probability of pad meltdown. I find it amazing how hot an over-saturated pad can get, to the point of liquefying the plastic that the backing plate is constructed from. I always recommend finding a backing plate that has the 5 or 6 holes in it to help cool the back side of the pad as you're working with DA polishers.

This is a non issue with rotary polishers because they don't have that back and forth as well as round and round type of friction going on that heats up the product that may have absorbed into the foam and velcro backing of the pad.

The heat generated while using rotary polishers is concentrated between the pad and the paint, which can be useful in some situations, and can and usually is a liability most of the time and should be monitored very closely as the paint is being compounded / polished.

Just my 2 cents on the issue.