Long Throw Polisher Proper Technique????

[Rod73]

I may be doing some paint correction this week taking care of a friend. I'm considering whether to by pass the Porter Cable and go for my new Duetto with my Rupes foam pads that'll be arriving soon. Definitely yes posting on Show n Shine.. but I was also considering videoing some of my work maybe even the polishing part

 

[ski2]

You need to learn how to make adjustments. Once you figure it out, Rupes are a pleasure to use.

It just amazes me that in all this time since the Rupes has been out and we've heard many have problems and many others say "you just need to use the proper technique" and yet no one has published a video or guide on how to use a long throw polisher.

 

[r_henry]

Seriously. I've been researching for the past two weeks and have decided to go w the Flex, but I will purchase the Duetto and give it a shot anyway.
I broke both hands in a bad cycling accident last year and Rupes sounds more appealing but sheeeshhh! No instructional vids or anything lol.

I have two E30 BMWs with schwarz (blk) SS paint that needs restoring. I will posting soon.

 

[mbpress01]

Ski2 - thx much for that comment. I second that 100 times over. Please Rod73 film the polishing part. If would be so much appreciated if you use a vertical AND curvy panel - like a convex door - with the Rupes and let us know how you did. I would like nothing more than to have someone show us this technique since committed weekend warriors want the best tools and products and anything that speeds up polishing and is easier on the hands is worth the money.

 

[VISITOR]

I've been researching for the past two weeks and have decided to go w the Flex

congrats! I'm sure everyone would like to own all the latest and greatest polishers but it's not financially possible. with that said, the flex offers more versatility with different pads and backing plates and forced rotation (for those annoyed with stalling).
also, it's...

 

[Kitoy22]

It just amazes me that in all this time since the Rupes has been out and we've heard many have problems and many others say "you just need to use the proper technique" and yet no one has published a video or guide on how to use a long throw polisher.

If you want a very detailed and technical explanation about traditional orbital polishers and differentiate it with the long throw orbital polishers and understand how they work and how you will take advantage of its strength, search for kevin brown, there are some videos, but i suggest you read his articles too.

 

[ski2]

If you want a very detailed and technical explanation about traditional orbital polishers and differentiate it with the long throw orbital polishers and understand how they work and how you will take advantage of its strength, search for kevin brown, there are some videos, but i suggest you read his articles too.

I have read all of Kevin's articles. None of them deal with how to properly use a long stroke polisher--they deal with an explanation of how they work and why they work better than a short stroke machine.

If you know of an article or video that deals with how to operate a long stroke polisher please post a link.

 

[Kitoy22]

Ok I will try to recall which video or article did I learn how to use my Rupes 21. I'll post it here as soon as I get it.
But if you've read all the articles already, it means that you know that in order for an orbital polisher to work, the pad needs to spin. And taking in to consideration of the long throw of Rupes, its attached pads just needs to spin with moderate pressure, and keeping the middle of the pad on level with the paint surface to avoid stalling of the pad.
I chose to use a smaller pad for correction since this will somehow help me keep the pad flat in the paint surface, to prevent stalling while applying pressure, specially on curved surfaces. And being a smaller pad, it will take lesser effort from the machine to make the pad spin.
I also installed a washer from KB, to prevent contact of the shroud to the bp, again for the pad to spin easier.
But what i learned through time is that applying the heaviest pressure while maintaining spin of the pad yields same results with just applying moderate pressure, what will be critical is your hand speed, slowing it down and being patient really gives me great results.

 

[Rod73]

Ski2 - Please Rod73 film the polishing part. If would be so much appreciated if you use a vertical AND curvy panel - like a convex door - with the Rupes and let us know how you did. I would like nothing more than to have someone show us this technique since committed weekend warriors want the best tools and products and anything that speeds up polishing and is easier on the hands is worth the money.

The car will be a White Toyota Corolla ..I believe not certain 2014. I may not be the perfect person to model after considering I just started mastering the Porter Cable on my 3rd time with paint correction. And lol I'm sitting next to my Duetto and Rupes pads unopened. Also I'm probably doing mostly one step on the major panels and slap a glaze on it. test spot wait and see. I'm essential doing a good friend a big one who was hit in accident and financially strapped because of it.

The car is a perfect paint correction candidate. My friend, which is part of my motivation, actually (that rare), actually tries to take care of his car. But between the butcher shop his insurance company sent the car to, the dealerships idea of vandalizing I mean detailing, and events that led to me explaining the proper way to wash a car I've got a super swirl committee of scratches to play with.

 

[RaskyR1]

It just amazes me that in all this time since the Rupes has been out and we've heard many have problems and many others say "you just need to use the proper technique" and yet no one has published a video or guide on how to use a long throw polisher.

I think part of the issue there is that everyone is a critic and people online have just become brutal. So why would anyone go out of there way to make a video knowing they'll probably get castrated for the tiny little thing in their video someone may not agree with.

 

[ski2]

I think part of the issue there is that everyone is a critic and people online have just become brutal. So why would anyone go out of there way to make a video knowing they'll probably get castrated for the tiny little thing in their video someone may not agree with.

Well I have to agree with you on this note after you see some of the comments regarding the new Griot's Boss polishers by people who have never seen them let alone held them in their hand or used them.

But, you would think Rupes would have put out an instructional video with all the negative comments over the last couple of years.

Maybe Griot's will do one!!!!

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Anyone have input???

I have a full article coming out on proper technique with pictures.

Just have to be patient....


:xyxthumbs:

 

[RaskyR1]

Well I have to agree with you on this note after you see some of the comments regarding the new Griot's Boss polishers by people who have never seen them let alone held them in their hand or used them.

But, you would think Rupes would have put out an instructional video with all the negative comments over the last couple of years.

Maybe Griot's will do one!!!!

You would think.

I'll mention it to Jeff the next time I see him or talk to him.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I think part of the issue there is that everyone is a critic and people online have just become brutal.

So why would anyone go out of there way to make a video knowing they'll probably get castrated for the tiny little thing in their video someone may not agree with.

I'd sure agree with you on this topic. It's SO easy for people to complain and point out what's wrong.

One thing for sure... you can never please everyone so don't even try.

What I practice myself is I do my best. I do my research first. Then get lots of hours behind the tool (or whatever the product or thingamajiggy might be), and then practice "writing" in conversational format, that is type like you're in a room talking to the person you're typing to and try as best as you can to make everything as simple as possible.

Don't make people work at learning.


I wrote this article about 5 years ago incorporating things I learned at Hewlett-Packard when giving feedback. I'd recommend everyone read it. The info shared is just as accurate today as the day I wrote it.


A tip on giving constructive feedback...



What I see most people do is point out the negative or state the problem. What they don't do is what I share in the above article and that is to bring balance to their comments and feedback. That is point out the positive with the negative. Offer "their" idea for the solution not just point out the problem.

For what it's worth...

 

[RaskyR1]

I'd sure agree with you on this topic. It's SO easy for people to complain and point out what's wrong.

One thing for sure... you can never please everyone so don't even try.

What I practice myself is I do my best. I do my research first. Then get lots of hours behind the tool (or whatever the product or thingamajiggy might be), and then practice "writing" in conversational format, that is type like you're in a room talking to the person you're typing to and try as best as you can to make everything as simple as possible.

Don't make people work at learning.


I wrote this article about 5 years ago incorporating things I learned at Hewlett-Packard when giving feedback. I'd recommend everyone read it. The info shared is just as accurate today as the day I wrote it.


A tip on giving constructive feedback...



What I see most people do is point out the negative or state the problem. What they don't do is what I share in the above article and that is to bring balance to their comments and feedback. That is point out the positive with the negative. Offer "their" idea for the solution not just point out the problem.

For what it's worth...

:dblthumb2:

 

[mbpress01]

One additional comment. I think a major part of the issue is that the Rupes line is sold as a premium tool known for its high build quality and "smoothness", which it definitely is. For me, I think it was way too advanced and I couldn't get it to work on the harder panels. For the roof, trunk, hood, an incredible machine, everywhere else no good, similar to a lot of users. With no real videos, technique instructions, or manuals with diagrams I gave up and got the Flex.

Given the quality of the Flex and its nature, there is ton of information that can help one master this tool. Mike has written many articles on Flex and even an excellent book - which I recommend everyone buy - which really shows how great the tool is. It will be interesting to see how the Boss fares, but I did see a comment about the same issue (learn technique and such). Now that I have two Flex (one for 6.5 and one for 5 pads) and can bang out great looking cars in no time my issues are resolved. The goal now is to keep improving. Mike's book was especially helpful in all things Flex and maybe we need a Rupes/Boss long-throw polisher book that would at least help us who don't possess the special technique.

 

[SR99]

One thing to add about the focus on technique to achieve pad rotation for long-throw DA polishers is that even with zero rotation, the orbital motion alone still provides abrasive action. Even more so when the "throw" of the orbital action is large.

A case in point, if you have an orbital pad sander (i.e. no rotation, just orbital action, and generally a pretty small orbit compared to what we're talking about here), these are pretty effective at sanding wood, including very hard/dense woods. Orbital sanders have been around for decades and orbital action alone does work. I can't think of any reason why that wouldn't also hold for paint correction.

Does the addition of rotation (say 1-4 rotations per second), on top of the orbtial action correct paint faster than orbital action alone? Probably, but I don't know if it's 10% faster or 100% faster or what.

Does the addition of rotation produce a better finish? Not sure on that, but my guess would be that orbital alone versus dual action could both achieve the same finish on many paint surfaces. On difficult paint, there might very well be a difference in favor of rotation because of the clearing action that rotation provides.

These things could be tested:

Find a uniformly-swirled hood, put down a tape line, and on the left half use a long-throw DA where you are getting a couple rotations per second for the entire time spent polishing. On the right half, somehow prevent the same DA from rotating (i.e. just orbital), and using the same (but new) pad and same amount of the same compound, same speed setting, same pressure, same polishing time, same pattern, compare the results on the two halves.

Then see how much extra time you have to spend on the right (orbital-only) half to get the finish to match the left (dual action) half.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

One of things I think I missed out on and possible others missed it too when the RUPES was introduced to the North American market and that is that RUPES didn't introduce a tool. They introduced a system.

The system includes a variety of tools and the idea being to match the best tool for the panel to be buffed.

Here in the U.S. I think, (just my opinion), that the majority of guys that are into car detailing when considering a tool, especially if it's their first tool and they are for the most part weekend warriors, they are thinking of getting one single tool.

And when considering the purchase of a single tool, (at least to start out with), it can get kind of complicated because they are looking for a tool that can do the best job of doing a little bit of everything.

That's not what RUPES had in mind when they introduced their system.

So back to the point on proper technique....

Part of using proper technique with a long orbit stroke polisher is matching the right tool for the panel to be buffed. For the most part this means matching the pad size to the panel to be buffed and this means having multiple pad sizes and thus multiple tools.

Besides matching the pad size to the panel to be buffed most of the rest of technique comes from how you hold the tool and that's what my article will share. There's also some of my own techniques that I've perfected from my background using rotary buffers.


I've used these techniques when I buffed out these two very challenging cars. For example all the very thin panels on the Ferrari and removing the oxidation next to the antique vinyl graphics without harming the graphics on the Trans Am.


1998 Ferrari 355 F1 Spyder

Using the right technique with the Rupes polishers you can make them dance... even when buffing out complicated louvers over the engine compartment.

1978 Trans Am - Original Single Stage Lacquer Paint
This is the version that Burt Reynolds made famous in the movie Smokey and the Bandit. It was not in the movie but is the correct engine, transmission, T-tops, colors, wheels, etc that are the same as the car Burt drove in the movie.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Just to note.... I share all these techniques in my 3-day detailing boot camp classes....

All of the cars documented in the below threads brought with them their own unique challenges when using long orbit stroke orbital polishers.


Rupes Detailing Classes at Autogeek!

Removing water spots with Rupes Bigfoot 21 Orbital Polisher

Rupes Bigfoot Polishers Detailing Class & Extreme Paint Restoration

How to use the Rupes Bigfoot Polisher - Detailing Class




The next detailing boot camp class is coming up in July...


Next Detailing Boot Camp Class - July 17th, 18th & 19th



:xyxthumbs:

 

[custmsprty]

Great information Mike. Thank you for taking the time to post that.

Hence why I have the LHR15, Duetto and Mini. I mentioned in one of my posts how I haven't used my 15 in quite a long time and that I primarily used my Duetto. My reason for that is the size and maneuverability with the Duetto. The last time I used my 15 was on a big Chevy truck with all those nice flat panels. My usual go to combo is my Duetto and my Mini on vehicles like the new Camaro and BMW 435i.

I recently bought the GG21 and went with the 21 because I have a 15mm Rupes.

I will hopefully in the next few weeks be trying out the GG21 System on a Red Porsche Cayenne. I will post the entire process. Brownie is working on this with me buy supporting me with some test products so I will use my new GG21 and my GG6 with 4" pads for the entire process using the new pads and Griot's creams. I can't wait!