Clay bar problem- contamination or orange peel?

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jbmeyer13

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I've been using a brand new Adam's gray clay bar that I picked up one month ago on my 03' M5 and it apparently won't fully remove the paint contaminants.


First, I washed the car and used the clay bar while washing. I then polished with my PC using a combo of Meguiars 105 (orange pad) and 205 (both white and black pads) and then went to use the plastic bag test. I can still feel and hear the roughness. Consequently, I grabbed some Meguiar's Quick Detailer and made several additional attempts with the clay bar but no luck. Furthermore, there's nothing visible being picked up on the clay.


I figured that perhaps something was wrong with the clay so then I tested it on my daily driver (03' 325xi). The surface was still a little rough but much better than the untreated area and I could see that the bar was picking up surface contaminants.

So my two questions are:

1) How does orange peel feel compared to contamination? The surface feels like there's small amounts of grit and that leads me to believe it's contamination.

2) Should I try something more aggressive like the nanoskin autoscrub medium pad?

Thanks
 
You're not going to feel orange peel with a baggie test. Is it possible you have overspray on the car that's not coming off with the clay? Although the M105/orange should have knocked that down some.

Has the car ever had any body work? Have you used a ferrous contamination remover? How much experience do you have with claying and polishing?
 
Setec Astronomy said:
You're not going to feel orange peel with a baggie test. Is it possible you have overspray on the car that's not coming off with the clay? Although the M105/orange should have knocked that down some.

Has the car ever had any body work? Have you used a ferrous contamination remover? How much experience do you have with claying and polishing?
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The car has had work performed. In 2008 the gas tank hatch/compartment was repainted (due to rust endemic to E39's), the front bumper repainted in 2009 (to cure minor road rash prior to full clear bra installation) and then in the Summer of 2010 the rear bumper was repainted after a small scratch from being rear ended. After every instance I had the car professionally detailed to remove overspray.

I'm an amateur; been using clay bars for over 10-years and have been polishing for the past 3-years (although this particular car was off the road and garaged for the past 18-months). I've never had to use a ferrous contamination remover as this car was professionally maintained from 2006 and onward.

I've never encountered something like this before and was skeptical that it would be orange peel because the car has been corrected previously. I've also dealt with minor overspray as well and I'd be surprised if that were the case. With that said, I'm not a professional so my frame of reference is limited.
 
where are you feeling the rough patches?

it is possible to have particle in the paint from the respray. can you see any imperfections were the roughness is?
 
Matt@landrover said:
where are you feeling the rough patches?

it is possible to have particle in the paint from the respray. can you see any imperfections were the roughness is?
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I can't see any imperfections with the naked eye. Thus far I have worked on the roof, c-pillars and the trunk lid. If I were to use something like a microscope I wouldn't know what to look for.
 
If this is in fact overspray not being removed by the clay bar, what is the next step? Is it possible that the combo of PC 7424XP and M105 is not strong enough to remove this?
 
jbmeyer13 said:
Northern NJ; near Morristown
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Oh, I didn't think you were going to be close to me, I thought maybe you would be close to a pro member who could give you an opinion. There's always Phil up in Norwood. Greg Gellas in Hillsbourough.

Oh, and if you have clearcoat overspray that isn't coming off from claying and polishing, then I guess wetsand would be the next step. Which is why you need someone like Phil.
 
jbmeyer13 said:
If this is in fact overspray not being removed by the clay bar, what is the next step? Is it possible that the combo of PC 7424XP and M105 is not strong enough to remove this?
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Perhaps you need to step up the aggressiveness of the clay as a starting point, but do expect more 'marring'.... though nothing that 205 shouldn't be able to remove.
 
lawrenceSA said:
Perhaps you need to step up the aggressiveness of the clay as a starting point, but do expect more 'marring'.... though nothing that 205 shouldn't be able to remove.
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Yeah, certainly more aggressive clay, more aggressive pad, more aggressive compound...I'm just thinking it's going to be a 5000 grit Trizact that's going to wind up.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Yeah, certainly more aggressive clay, more aggressive pad, more aggressive compound...I'm just thinking it's going to be a 5000 grit Trizact that's going to wind up.
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I looked back through my rather extensive records and realized the last trip to the body shop (for something small) was not followed up by a clay bar process. So that leads me to believe in all likelihood this is a caked on overspray. Not only will I have to get this off the paint but also a custom clear bra covering the entire hood, front bumper and fenders.

Not that I'm about to purchase a 5000 grit disc but are these even recommended for use with a 7424XP or does it ideally require a Rupes or Flex? It sounds like we are drifting into an area that requires someone with professional experience.

I've wet sanded locations by hand but never attempted to correct what likely amounts to being nearly the entire car, let alone with something like Trizact pads.

This is getting worse by the minute:cry:
 
Sure you can use the Trizact with a PC, sanding requires less power than polishing.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...5000-grit-polishing-i-mean-sanding-discs.html

I think you should try a test spot with some more aggressive clay, and see if that gets the overspray off, and if it does, what kind of marring it leaves. I'm not too far away if that helps...although I'm not exactly offering, either, got a lot of stuff going on right now.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Sure you can use the Trizact with a PC, sanding requires less power than polishing.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...5000-grit-polishing-i-mean-sanding-discs.html

I think you should try a test spot with some more aggressive clay, and see if that gets the overspray off, and if it does, what kind of marring it leaves. I'm not too far away if that helps...although I'm not exactly offering, either, got a lot of stuff going on right now.
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I saddled up, took the plunge and picked up 3 #5000 Trizact pads from a local auto body supply shop on Friday (prior to SA's post about using a heavier clay bar). I tried varying speeds from 4-6 and found that the key is using just the right amount of water around speed 4.5 with minimal pressure. As advertised- too much and it won't cut and too little the pad will clog up and the DA won't break the finish.

I started on the trunk and it was definitely covered with overspray. No surprise since the rear bumper was the last area touched. Truly amazing to see what was coming off. I found that going straight to M205 didn't leave the finish I was looking for so I hit it with M105/orange pad and then with M205 on white and finally on black pads. This may not be the most efficient way to rectify this type of problem but I think the results are pretty good as I was also able to remove defects in the finish that would not come out with the PC/105/orange combo. A skilled professional detailer with a rotary probably could have achieved comparable or better results faster but I think this was a good alternative that is far less risky for an enthusiast.

The really interesting part is I tried running two different kinds of plastic bags and also nitrile gloves over the finish and they each felt different. The glove feels perfectly smooth, the sandwich baggy displays some texture and the ziplock freezer bag was a little coarse. I then took each of these and ran them across various pieces of glass (car window, house window, mirror, etc.) and the results were fairly consistent.

Just to have a piece of mind, a detailer who I've used in the past is stopping by tomorrow night to evaluate my efforts. If all is good, them I'll finish up the rest of the car.
 
Wow that sounds like it came out well. Who is the local detailer if you don't mind me asking?
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Wow that sounds like it came out well. Who is the local detailer if you don't mind me asking?
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Chris Covello from All in The Details in Morristown (behind High Marques). He's done a lot of great work for me in the past and is also the one who encouraged me to take over the reins on the polishing duties. He's been backed up for a few weeks and is finally able to make it out my way tomorrow night.
 
lawrenceSA said:
Perhaps you need to step up the aggressiveness of the clay as a starting point, but do expect more 'marring'.... though nothing that 205 shouldn't be able to remove.
Click to expand...

:iagree:




jbmeyer13 said:
I looked back through my rather extensive records and realized the last trip to the body shop (for something small) was not followed up by a clay bar process.

So that leads me to believe in all likelihood this is a caked on overspray.
Click to expand...


One of the things we go over in our 3-day detailing boot camp classes are the multiple ways to mechanically decontaminate paint.

  1. Detailing clay
  2. Nanoskin Autoscrub Wash Mitts
  3. Nanoskin Autoscrub Towels.
  4. Nanoskin Autoscrub Pads

I also explain that the MOST COMMON place to get overspray paint is at a body shop while your car is there for repairs.

Many shops don't cover and protect the areas of the car NOT being repainted or do a shoddy job of covering and protecting and air-borne overspray paint can and will get everywhere.

Besides your car, there are other cars being painted inside the paint booth and it's also possible for some painting to be done outside the paint booth like guide coats during the final body work steps.

Anytime you take a car in for paint work, whether it's the entire car or just a panel or two, you should inspect the car for overspray paint contamination.


jbmeyer13 said:
Not only will I have to get this off the paint but also a custom clear bra covering the entire hood, front bumper and fenders.
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Don't forget all the,

  • Glass
  • Trim
  • Plastic
  • Wheels
  • Tires

:)
 
jbmeyer13 said:
I saddled up, took the plunge and picked up 3 #5000 Trizact pads from a local auto body supply shop on Friday (prior to SA's post about using a heavier clay bar). I tried varying speeds from 4-6 and found that the key is using just the right amount of water around speed 4.5 with minimal pressure. As advertised- too much and it won't cut and too little the pad will clog up and the DA won't break the finish.
Click to expand...

Hats off to you. That's pretty gutsy to machine sand to remove overspray.

At least #5000 grit 3M Trizact is very safe for sanding and removing the sanding marks is a cinch.


jbmeyer13 said:
This may not be the most efficient way to rectify this type of problem
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Here's two very well documented EXTREME cases of overspray paint over the ENTIRE vehicles including the glass and even the wood bed on the Chevy truck.

These were not any ordinary daily driver either, these were streetrods....


Removing Overspray Paint using Nanoskin Autoscrub Pads

1963_Plymouth_Fury_Drag_Racer_027.jpg




:xyxthumbs:
 
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