Estimated time for a 1950 Plymouth suburban

Busy mind

Busy mind

New member
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
244
Reaction score
0
I've read a few articles by Mike on single stage paint restoration but I'm curious about how long the process would take for a "production" style detail. If i do the job, I'll probably stop after a few applications of Meg's 7 and wax.
Owner is usually someone I would turn down since he's looking for a miracle for pennies, but I'd really like to work on this old 1950 Plymouth suburban.
I am terrible at estimating time and I always take longer.
So if the paint is extremely dried out and cracked in a few areas, about how long should I expect to rejuvenate just the paint?

I did a test section on a door panel which took around 15 min of prep and applying M7. It looked enhanced right away, but about 3 hours later I saw that the glaze/polish got soaked up like nothing.

If I do come across this again, and it's someone who values quality, are most of you charging by the hour or the project?
This owner told me that for another $1,000 his buddies could paint it for him and everything would be perfect. The more I think about my quote, the more I realize how low it was. I guess this would just be a detail to get the experience.

Thank you for your experienced comments.
 
I know next to nothing about pro detailing, but like anything else I would charge him what you feel is fair to do a good job.

From there let him decide to take it or leave it, if he is already trying to pinch you I would walk.
 
What I feel is fair and what he thinks is fair, are two different things. I'm just curious the time it takes others to complete this job, so I know for future reference. I'm estimating 35 hours and I'd like to be around $40 an hour. I don't see him paying $1400 when he thinks it can be painted for under 2k.
 
First, for those that might not know, here's what one of these rigs looks like....

watermark.php





Busy mind said:
This owner told me that for another $1,000 his buddies could paint it for him and everything would be perfect.
Click to expand...


I doubt that's going to happen.

Once you dive into an old car if you start finding rust or worse, cancer you're talking about a money pit.

It's possible his buddies could slap a paint job on it for a $1000.00 but that's what he'll have a $1,000.00 paint job.

This 1956 Chevy Belair my class buffed out has a $15,000.00 paint job and after a proper machine polishing it looks like it.


Removing water spots with Rupes Bigfoot 21 Orbital Polisher


watermark.php





I could buff the Suburban out in probably about 8 hours and have it looking nice using a Flex 3401 and either a one-step cleaner/wax or by doing a 2-step using either a compound or a polish followed by waxing.

The Flex would save your but on this job.

Do you have any pictures? Can you upload them to the gallery and insert them so we can all see the current condition and the car itself?


:)
 
Busy mind said:
What I feel is fair and what he thinks is fair, are two different things. I'm just curious the time it takes others to complete this job, so I know for future reference. I'm estimating 35 hours and I'd like to be around $40 an hour. I don't see him paying $1400 when he thinks it can be painted for under 2k.
Click to expand...

From the pics I saw, it looks like he has already had one or two of those $1,000 paint jobs. Even if he let you do it for the price you quoted him, I feel you wouldn't be satisfied for the simple fact of how poor the paint job was to begin with. Something a little nicer will come your way soon.
 
I do have a few pics of the nasty "touch up" spots. I've followed the tutorial before about uploading pics and seem to be doing something wrong because I can't find them. I can text them to you Mike...haha

I pointed out the rust to him and showed him all the spots that need body work. Apparently he might be selling it for a quick buck. I was under the impression it was a family cruiser he was going to drive to summer shows and keep around.

It's hard to pass this opportunity up. I'd prefer something like this over an exotic, but this is life. I figure 8 Mike P. hours is probably the equivalent of 20 hours for me, so now I have a rough estimate.

Yes Don, maybe something cooler will come along.
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
Here's the link to your gallery, the only picture there is the one I uploaded.

Busy mind Gallery - AutogeekOnline Gallery


I know working with pictures can be confusing. Not sure what to say as all my articles include screen shots that show what to do.

:dunno:
Click to expand...

Seems to be working now. I swear 2 months ago it told me it's processing the image and then it never showed. I did it from my phone, iPad, and laptop. Nevertheless I'll put up some examples later on. Thanks.
 
I hate it when people try to nickel and dime a project like this.

If he's only going to spend $1k on the paint job, what sort of job is expecting of you?

I understand wanting to work on a cool project, but quote an honest price and if he doesn't bite then maybe negotiate a bit less but don't do the job for nothing just because it's a cool car.
 
To me, it looks like what's left of the paint will shine up quick and easy using a foam polishing pad on a Flex 3401.

If you don't have a Flex 3401 then use the money from this detail to buy one.

You can do this with any other polisher but most other simple DA polishers will take a lot longer and a rotary will probably burn through multiple times and leave holograms if you do a one-step.

You could also rub it out by hand using some terry cloth like cut up a cotton hand towel into chunks of cloth about 6" square and then fold them in have to rub with.


For you, if you want to do it bid him $400.00 to $500.00 for the one-step and if he says that's too high let him repaint it.

Read my section in Renny's book about

The learned art of turning work down


Do what I teach in my detailing classes, it's called Cherry Picking. That is go after great clients that pay well, let newbies have the lowing paying, unrewarding hard jobs.


NOTE: Be prepared to clean you pad often as you're going to have a LOT of dead, oxidized paint coming off the car.

In my opinion, he would be money ahead to let you buff it out and then he can just drive the car an enjoy it or flip it.

If he tries to get a cheap paint job first it's going to turn into a money pit unless the painters just slap on a really cheap paint job and if they do, then sell it fast before it starts to go south.

Old single stage paint like is on this car really buffs up a a high shine, I think everyone would be impressed.



:)
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
To me, it looks like what's left of the paint will shine up quick and easy using a foam polishing pad on a Flex 3401.

If you don't have a Flex 3401 then use the money from this detail to buy one.

You can do this with any other polisher but most other simple DA polishers will take a lot longer and a rotary will probably burn through multiple times and leave holograms if you do a one-step.

You could also rub it out by hand using some terry cloth like cut up a cotton hand towel into chunks of cloth about 6" square and then fold them in have to rub with.


For you, if you want to do it bid him $400.00 to $500.00 for the one-step and if he says that's too high let him repaint it.

Read my section in Renny's book about

The learned art of turning work down


Do what I teach in my detailing classes, it's called Cherry Picking. That is go after great clients that pay well, let newbies have the lowing paying, unrewarding hard jobs.


NOTE: Be prepared to clean you pad often as you're going to have a LOT of dead, oxidized paint coming off the car.

In my opinion, he would be money ahead to let you buff it out and then he can just drive the car an enjoy it or flip it.

If he tries to get a cheap paint job first it's going to turn into a money pit unless the painters just slap on a really cheap paint job and if they do, then sell it fast before it starts to go south.

Old single stage paint like is on this car really buffs up a a high shine, I think everyone would be impressed.



:)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback. My Flex is already ordered and should be here next week.

From the articles I did read, everyone was using Meg's #7 first to prep it before polishing. I assumed with the cracked and uneven paint on this classic that I would have to do the same before polishing.

I would like to be in a position to cherry pick. I've already detailed/corrected a Harley for this customer and he has a couple other cars he wants maintained. I was compensated fairly for the work done so far. When I gave him the quote I took into account of having a high price for materials since the M#7 is $15 a bottle and I figured 8-10 bottles would suffice for this dry paint.

I know for certain I couldn't do a quick one step and be satisfied. I always end up doing more work than what I quote. It's something I'm working on.
To me the experience is valuable but we'll see what happens.
 
Busy mind said:
Thanks for the feedback. My Flex is already ordered and should be here next week.
Click to expand...

You'll love this tool. I did this in 5.5 hours.

watermark.php


3D HD Adapt and Poxy Review - 1940 Studebaker Streetrod detailed by Mike Phillips


Busy mind said:
From the articles I did read, everyone was using Meg's #7 first to prep it before polishing. I assumed with the cracked and uneven paint on this classic that I would have to do the same before polishing.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is how you restore antique paint that is important to you. If you're doing it on the cheap you could probably just use a cleaner/wax.

If it were MY CAR I would do the #7 first. It should be important to the owner. Key word is important. Re-read the 3rd paragraph of my #7 restoration article and you'll see I use the word important in the first paragraph to define who this process is for.

The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints

I even made the letters red. :)



Busy mind said:
I would like to be in a position to cherry pick.
Click to expand...

You will get there. :xyxthumbs:


Busy mind said:
I've already detailed/corrected a Harley for this customer and he has a couple other cars he wants maintained. I was compensated fairly for the work done so far. When I gave him the quote I took into account of having a high price for materials since the M#7 is $15 a bottle and I figured 8-10 bottles would suffice for this dry paint.
Click to expand...

You could do it with 2-3 easy.



Busy mind said:
I know for certain I couldn't do a quick one step and be satisfied. I always end up doing more work than what I quote. It's something I'm working on.
To me the experience is valuable but we'll see what happens.
Click to expand...

You're just like me.... see this article I wrote a long time ago.... read it and see if you can relate....

The Mindset of a Professional Detailer



:)
 
Thanks Mike for the extra time you put in to responding.
I also have my eye on the Flex PE8 but will have to hold off on that for now.

I often find myself caring about the end result more than the owner. Luckily this is part time although it feels like full time work.

I tried finding the article, but you did a single stage restoration on a "brown land yacht". I'm sure I read that you used 3 bottles of M7 for the hood alone, so I assumed I needed just as much.

Yes I've read the article "Mindset of a professional detailer" and I just read it again. Sometimes it's a matter of wanting to please the customer and other times I want to test myself to see how much I can enhance my substrate. Only recently I told myself to stop working on a project because I had already accomplished what I said I'd do.

Thanks again to those who have commented.
-Rob
 
Until I read Mikes comment about quote him $400-500 if he wont then walk away, I was going to say let him go get his $1k crap paint job. That car looks like a project that will only cause you headaches. But if Mike thinks its savable then go for it but make sure you make it well worth your time. You dont seem really confident and it may come back to bite you in the butt. HOPE NOT and lets see some of those after pics!!!
 
Holy cow I can't imagine what he thinks he's going to get for 1,000 bucks for an entire paint job. I do my own paint work and was in @ 1200 bucks in just material alone on a regular cab pickup.

It looks like it could be buffed out to a presentable car, but I would make sure everyone's expectations are clear.
 
MPBGT said:
Holy cow I can't imagine what he thinks he's going to get for 1,000 bucks for an entire paint job. I do my own paint work and was in @ 1200 bucks in just material alone on a regular cab pickup.
Click to expand...

^^ +1 ^^

I remember buying DuPont Imron back in the 70's for $36 a gallon. It's the first polyurethane finish that got this whole ball a rollin, fantastic stuff in its day for sure! Now buy a gallon of quality paint, the average person would be shocked at the prices!



Believe it or not this 20+ year old (almost full) gallon of Imron clear is still good!
If I had a quart of activator I'd shoot it on something lol.

Back in the day the Binks #7 was the Cadillac of paint guns :)

IMG_2563.jpg






This gallon of PPG Deltron "Victory Red" costs over $500 just for the basecoat!
The quart of BASF Limco Supreme basecoat (economy paint system) cost $90 :eek:

IMG_4035.jpg
 
OT question for Red...How many 'gallons' does it take to an average vehicle?

I know painting can get expensive, but I didn't realize the product was THAT pricy.

Thanx...

Bill
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top