Correcting Black Car - newbie to forum

[Racinfan83]

This is gonna be long - but I wanna include as much detail as I can. Please bear with...

I have a 1990 ZR-1 Corvette. Black on black. 20k miles. Pretty much sits in garage under a car cover until it comes out to get ready for and drive to Corvette shows. I've won class at like 7 or 8 shows in last 2 years.

Went to a large show last weekend, got dinged 2 points for "swirl marks" - which cost me 2nd place. (got 3rd) I want to fix that.


Keep in mind I don't have much of a budget for expensive products, or a heck of a lot of time. I do have a PC 7424 I got from AG last year and a few pads.

I used Meguiars Ultimate Polish, Mirror Glaze, and Ultimate Gold wax last year.

Did all 3 before every show which is time consuming and kills my 50 yr old body.

So I got some Chadwicks Triple Play waterless wash & shine for this year.

I have never actually WASHED this car. These C4 ZR-1's have a lot of electronics and don't take well to water. I've always just carefully wiped dust off - until I got the Chadwicks which I use now.

The car looks good, shines like a mirror, but there are some repaired rock chips and a few little bad spots in the paint. What is driving me NUTS is the "micro scratches" all over it. Some will come out with a little polish on a microfiber - some won't.

I want to get this thing polished and all the little scratches that you can't see until in bright light or sunlight out of it over the winter.

I have probably polished it 4 or 5 times with the Ultimate Polish, both by hand and with the PC. It's probably been waxed 10 times and Chadwicked 10 at least.


Are there too many layers of stuff on it to get the scratches out? If so, how do I go about fixing it?

I have some Meguiars Ultimate Compound now as well that I can use if that would work better to correct it with the PC. Haven't tried that route yet - figured I better ask an expert before I polish all the paint off...

I had no real detailing experience before this car. Trying to learn without screwing the car up or breaking the bank.

Need info on how to deal with all the layers that I've built up on it - do I leave that or how do I get it off - yet get it back to a "deep shine" like it has now, just without the micro scratches.

And once I get it right - how do I deal with the dust and crap that naturally gets on it in the garage and driving to shows without adding micro scratches back to it? I've been using new microfiber towels for everything I use on the car - But I still think they might be contributing to the problem even with the Chadwicks???


Help please. And I may not be able to get back on here for a day or two so please bear with me on my replies... THANKS!

 

[irvsmith]

Others will chime in but from my understanding a 2 bucket method with a dish soap (Dawn) will remove a good amount of the extraneous, historical products. This would give you a good starting point for the products you mention. In addition a good claying afterwards will help.

You will want to make sure your wash mitt is new.

 

[Joe@NextLevelDetail]

Nice car.

First of all you used a porter cable and ultimate polish by hand and machine and by a very safe machine if anything.

You are completely safe to further polish unless you had dangerously low level of paint from the get go. But the car is in such good condition i doubt that to be the case.

Ultimate compound is a great product for a newbie like your self teamed up with the pc you will get great results for a newbie that is. For a experienced detailer its very sub par.


Is your car clear coat or single stage ? If im not mistaken its supposed to be single stage.


Use the ultimate compound with the porter cable and a cutting pad speed of 5 or 6 slow to medium arm speed if you move the machine fast your doing nothing. You need to give the machine time to fix the paint.

People will tell you forget ultimate compound use m105 let me tell you i am a veteran detailer and polished over 100 cars and i still have problems using m105 with dusting working drying up to fast and for a beginner that wont know how to fix the problem they theyll be waisting there time

Especially if your working outside.

Use the ultimate compound the ultimate polish is really mild in terms of cutting so dont think you have taken a EXCESSIVE amount of paint off you barely took anything off.


But that polish will not get them out.

Also if your car is a garage queen and no real dirt gets on her you want to know the best way to clean her

STOP TOUCHING HER EVERY CHANCE YOU GET.

Washing with a bucket and a old mit is probably unnecessary when all there is is some dust and light grime

Spray it with s foam gun let it sit and rinse it off dont touch it if you dont have too.


And the towels you think are clean probably arent.

If you havent washed them since you get them there dirty if you place them on top of a old dusty box in your garage while all the microfibers are picking up dust and dirt in the air and then you whipe your car your scratching.


Store your microfibers in a ziplock bag or container.

And after you use once. Its dirty untill you wash it.

If you dont have to touch the car dont.


If you have any questions you can contact me or i can give you my cell phone number to guide you thru it if you have any questions ill be more then happy to help

 

[Racinfan83]

Thanks! Would you suggest I wash it, before using the compound, to get the layers of stuff off? Like I said I've never ever washed it with water. And your suggestion on brand of microfiber towels please? I've tried lots and never use dirty or even washed ones...
And I'm not sure if it's clear coated or not. If I was guessing I'd say no...

 

[vobro]

Good advice so far. This forum is loaded with info and how to videos and since you say over the winter I'd suggest going thru the How to sections and absorb info. Specifically I'd start with the basic steps:
Rinsless/ waterless wash- modern ways to clean paint
Clay/clay bar alternatives- removes surface contaminants
How to polish/compound
How to care for microfiber and what makes a good mf and what to avoid
I had a 94 Vette and it was clear coated and if your not sure Google your paint code to see if it has cc.
It's highly unlikely you'll get the results you want if you just buy supplies and go out to the garage and expect show car results. Reading here will give you the confidence to do it right and show you that it's the skill and steps that achieve results instead of some new greatest miracle product. Im not trying to deflate you but you have a rare car and it's best to learn proper car care

 

[Dixarect]

Holy crap. C4 zr1. With the LT 5. That car is very nice. Please post pictures when you are finished.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Went to a large show last weekend, got dinged 2 points for "swirl marks" - which cost me 2nd place. (got 3rd) I want to fix that.

I'm actually happy to see judges discounting cars for swirls.

I hope this is a trend because most of my life when I go to any car show all the cool cars look like dog doo.

Are there too many layers of stuff on it to get the scratches out? If so, how do I go about fixing it?

Need info on how to deal with all the layers that I've built up on it - do I leave that or how do I get it off

As for getting the Chadwicks or ANY type of wax or sealant off the paint the Ultimate Compound will OBLITERATE everything off the surface.

The question or topic comes up a lot, let me explain it in REAL SIMPLE TERMS


If a compound has the ability to ABRADE PAINT it's going to take everything laying on top of it off at the same time.

So compound the paint and you'll remove the Chadwicks, any other wax or sealant on the paint and you'll also remove the majority of the swirls and scratches. Get some of the Meguiar's 5.5" THIN foam maroon cutting discs for the compounding step.

Then re-polish using the UC with s soft foam polishing pad.

I have some Meguiars Ultimate Compound now as well that I can use if that would work better to correct it with the PC.

It will work MUCH BETTER. The UC is a a fine cut polish. I've buffed out dozens of these C4 Corvettes in my life and I actually don't really like to buff them out because the factory paint on these models tends to be very hard. You'll need the UC.

And once I get it right - how do I deal with the dust and crap that naturally gets on it in the garage and driving to shows without adding micro scratches back to it?

You need this article... I just a haven't finished it yet.... too busy....


Tips for maintaining a black car



:xyxthumbs:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Click this link and look at the after pictures.... this is what you want the paint to look like on your Corvette,


1987 Corvette Show Car Makeover - SONAX Showcase

Or this one,

1977 Can Am Corvette - Modeled by Amy and Janna - Pictures and Video!

Or this one....



1972 Corvette Stingray - Extreme Makeover - Process and Products Used

Point being, take your time doing the compounding step as it is the most important step. Then follow that with the polishing step and then seal the paint.

Perhaps consider using a paint coating like I show on this 2-door Chevy....


How to detail a 2014 Corvette Stingray

 

[Joe@NextLevelDetail]

Thanks! Would you suggest I wash it, before using the compound, to get the layers of stuff off? Like I said I've never ever washed it with water. And your suggestion on brand of microfiber towels please? I've tried lots and never use dirty or even washed ones...
And I'm not sure if it's clear coated or not. If I was guessing I'd say no...

You saying you never washed it with water does that mean you use quick detailer or spray wax to clean it ?


That can be the cause of your swirls there you have to know when the right time is for quick detail and a spray down with a hose.


And use wash it before you compound.

Use a liquid dish soap to strip the protection on and degrease.

Clay the entire car to rather it doesnt need it or does.

It will only help take off contaminates and maybe help break down the protection you put on.

Take your time with the compounding step like mike said if you didn't get them out with that step there not coming out in the polish step.


You said you polished the car before right ? With the porter cable and by hand when you polished did you see paint transfer ?

Meaning the paint of the car on your pad/rag/applicator if you seen black paint or whatever the color of your car is then it is single stage

 

[Racinfan83]

The guys on the ZR-1 forum say it IS clearcoated.
I have always "washed" the car with detail spray - until I got Chadwicks and I use that now. I never intended to get it rained on - but it's happened 3 times this year going to or coming from shows. So I have had to use a lot of Chadwicks...
Mike you are a great resource and great help. As are the others who posted. I have some direction to go now and will start working on it as I have time.

When using the compound with the PC - does it need to stay "wet", or can you still run the polisher over it as it starts to dry? Let dry completely before wiping off (like wax) or wipe off immediately?

Holy crap. C4 zr1. With the LT 5. That car is very nice. Please post pictures when you are finished.

Here are some I have now:

 

[Joe@NextLevelDetail]

The guys on the ZR-1 forum say it IS clearcoated.
I have always "washed" the car with detail spray - until I got Chadwicks and I use that now. I never intended to get it rained on - but it's happened 3 times this year going to or coming from shows. So I have had to use a lot of Chadwicks...
Mike you are a great resource and great help. As are the others who posted. I have some direction to go now and will start working on it as I have time.

When using the compound with the PC - does it need to stay "wet", or can you still run the polisher over it as it starts to dry? Let dry completely before wiping off (like wax) or wipe off immediately?



Here are some I have now:

After your done working the polish.
You whipe off with a microfiber rag.
Then you get a inspection light like a flashlight to look at the paint to see how the paint is responding.


If your seeing good results but can get better you go for another section pass with slow to medium arm movement

After your passes you inspect again never just work a panel and assume the damage is gone.

The beat detailer in the world is nothing without a inspection light to see the progress.

Put a piece of tape on the car work one side your going to have to do multiple passes if you want near perfection. And go from there.

Also what pads do you have.
Tell me all the polishes/compounds you have

And if you plan on ordering anything special to polish the car

 

[Racinfan83]

After your done working the polish.
You whipe off with a microfiber rag.
Then you get a inspection light like a flashlight to look at the paint to see how the paint is responding.


If your seeing good results but can get better you go for another section pass with slow to medium arm movement

After your passes you inspect again never just work a panel and assume the damage is gone.

The beat detailer in the world is nothing without a inspection light to see the progress.

Put a piece of tape on the car work one side your going to have to do multiple passes if you want near perfection. And go from there.

Also what pads do you have.
Tell me all the polishes/compounds you have

And if you plan on ordering anything special to polish the car

I got the PC with the starter kit. I have a couple each of white, gold, & red pads. Bag of orange plush microfiber towels from Chemical Guys, and a bag of yellow from Costco. I have been using Meguiars Ultimate Polish, Mirror Glaze, and Ultimate Gold liquid wax. I also have a bottle of Adams Revive Polish. I have Turtle Wax Black Detail Spray, and regular detail spray, a couple clay bars, and the Chadwicks Triple Play waterless wash which is what I use now.
I like the idea of a sealant like the Black Diamond Paint that Mike mentioned. Have to see how expensive it is though. Not much of a budget here...

 

[Joe@NextLevelDetail]

I got the PC with the starter kit. I have a couple each of white, gold, & red pads. Bag of orange plush microfiber towels from Chemical Guys, and a bag of yellow from Costco. I have been using Meguiars Ultimate Polish, Mirror Glaze, and Ultimate Gold liquid wax. I also have a bottle of Adams Revive Polish. I have Turtle Wax Black Detail Spray, and regular detail spray, a couple clay bars, and the Chadwicks Triple Play waterless wash which is what I use now.
I like the idea of a sealant like the Black Diamond Paint that Mike mentioned. Have to see how expensive it is though. Not much of a budget here...

Well if you want amazing results.

I would order the 8 oz bottle of fg400 and 8 oz of sf4000

With those products you will get amazing results even with the porter cable.

There very easy to work easy wipe on wipe off.

You wont regret it.

The ultimate compound and polish are user friendly but results can only get you so far.

Fg400 can get you near perfect with little effort.

My point is if your going to spend hours buffing your car.

Example:

7 hours buffing
With ultimate compound + polish
70% better

7 hours buffing with menzerna
Fg400 compound and sf4000 polish
90% better.

If your going to put the time in go for near perfection and win every show you can.


You have an amazing car forking up
50bux for making your car near perfect is a bargain imo

 

[hollerstiltner]

I have a couple of simple questions.

1. What is your budget? No point in making recommendations you can't afford.

2. Where are you located? AG'ers love helping others out and love get togethers.

 

[Racinfan83]

I have a couple of simple questions.

1. What is your budget? No point in making recommendations you can't afford.

2. Where are you located? AG'ers love helping others out and love get togethers.

I can spend $100 for whatever I need as long as it works and saves me time and hassle.

And I'm west of St Louis about 20 miles...

 

[Joe@NextLevelDetail]

I can spend $100 for whatever I need as long as it works and saves me time and hassle.

And I'm west of St Louis about 20 miles...

If your interested in bringing the vette to my shop.

Im located in a suburb outside of chicago in justice il.

Doubt you want to go that far tho !

If your willing to spend 100 bucks

Order fg400 and sf4000 the results you will get are going to be superior to ultimate compound

And your going to have to do less work and get better results.

Post on the forum that your looking for some help im sure there are detailers in st louis

 

[Racinfan83]

Update: I got the fg 400, the fg 4000, and a bottle of Wolfgang Dura Gloss 3.0 paint sealer. I had a day to mess around this weekend so I used the PC 7424 and Meguiars Ultimate Compound on my wife's cool vanilla 300C thats 10 years old - to try and get a better feel for this before doing my Vette. Finished with one application of the Wolfgang sealer.
Questions: the pad on the PC hardly ever actually rotated, I was applying pressure, using close to setting 5 with the compound. I had it up to about 5 1/2 but the pad started throwing glue out and separated. I did get decent results, the car has never been polished and gets run through a automatic wash with the brushes and strips so it had lots of scratches. I was doing about a 2'x2' section at a time. I didn't use my good Menzerna compound, didn't want to learn using it yet. SO - do I need to apply pressure so the pad DOESN'T rotate and let the vibration do the work, or light pressure so it rotates?

On the sealer: I used a gold pad and setting 4. Questions: how many times do I need to go over each area as I apply?
Does it help to do multiple applications of sealer, and if so how long should I let one coat dry before applying another?
I used the pad cleaner from the kit I got with the PC on the pads. Compound pads cleaned right out with water. Sealer pad didn't clean at all. Tried Dawn on it too. Still squeeze sealer out of it and it's still wet 3 days later. How do I clean a sealer pad, and is this one junk now since I used Dawn and the other cleaner?

 

[Joe@NextLevelDetail]

Update: I got the fg 400, the fg 4000, and a bottle of Wolfgang Dura Gloss 3.0 paint sealer. I had a day to mess around this weekend so I used the PC 7424 and Meguiars Ultimate Compound on my wife's cool vanilla 300C thats 10 years old - to try and get a better feel for this before doing my Vette. Finished with one application of the Wolfgang sealer.
Questions: the pad on the PC hardly ever actually rotated, I was applying pressure, using close to setting 5 with the compound. I had it up to about 5 1/2 but the pad started throwing glue out and separated. I did get decent results, the car has never been polished and gets run through a automatic wash with the brushes and strips so it had lots of scratches. I was doing about a 2'x2' section at a time. I didn't use my good Menzerna compound, didn't want to learn using it yet. SO - do I need to apply pressure so the pad DOESN'T rotate and let the vibration do the work, or light pressure so it rotates?

On the sealer: I used a gold pad and setting 4. Questions: how many times do I need to go over each area as I apply?
Does it help to do multiple applications of sealer, and if so how long should I let one coat dry before applying another?
I used the pad cleaner from the kit I got with the PC on the pads. Compound pads cleaned right out with water. Sealer pad didn't clean at all. Tried Dawn on it too. Still squeeze sealer out of it and it's still wet 3 days later. How do I clean a sealer pad, and is this one junk now since I used Dawn and the other cleaner?

Vibration does not fix paint. You need pad rotation, if the pad doesn't rotate you aren't polishing.

Maybe you should just set up an appointment with me