problems finishing out paint

96z28

96z28

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I having a strange problem working on my 2012 black Toyota Tacoma. The paints in pretty rough shape so I am in the process of compounding and polishing the paint. Using a buff and shine green polishing pad and m205 I am getting DA haze very bad. If i switch to a LC orange light cutting pad I get a very nice finish that I am happy with. Why would a more aggressive pad produce a better finish? Even during compounding with M100 and the orange pad my finish was better than the green/m205. I also tried LC white/m205 and it was the same as BnS green.
 
The reason this happens is because a softer pad folds over on itself, thus marring the surface on extremely soft paint systems.

Sometimes a more aggressive pad is needed for a BETTER finish.
 
I've run into a few cars like this. I had recently a green Camry that turned into a mess with any soft finishing pads. Didn't matter what product, what machine speed, what hand speed, nothing. It would not finish down with anything but an orange pad @ 5-6.
 
Thanks for the replies. I do know that the paint on the Toyota black is soft being a single stage. I have never read that a soft pad could do this. I figured the marks were do to the aggressiveness of the pads. I guess if I'm happy with the outcome the combination shouldn't matter. Does being closed cell foam vs open cell foam have any effect on this? Are there closed cell polishing/finishing pads? I'm petty sure both my white and green pads are open cell vs the orange closed cell.
 
I have found that sometimes with these soft paints that are hard to finish, I can get by using speed 6 with my PC with a finishing pad, but one wrong move or the pad stopping will make a mess in that area. I have no clue why. It seems to be a common occurrence for me with soft paint. The easier it is to correct, the more difficult I know it'll be to finish. If my finishing pad is brand new and still has some backbone, it's not an issue.
 
davey g-force said:
I've never heard of this. Can you explain what you mean in more detail please?

Thanks.
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The softer pad can be compressed more, thus causing the foam cells to collapse on themselves causing micro-marring. Whereas, the stiffer closed cell pad cannot be compressed as easily.

Often times, a cutting pad with a water/polish mixture can be used with success on EXTREMELY soft paint systems.

It's all about RESIDUE MANAGEMENT! The paint you're removing and the spent polish has to go somewhere.

Read up on the Kevin Brown Method (KBM) if you haven't already done so. Lots of EXTREMELY USEFUL information!
 
Ah yes, I have of heard of that before, thanks!

And yes, I'm aware of the KBM. Thanks for your PM too! :xyxthumbs:
 
96z28 said:
Thanks for the replies. I do know that the paint on the Toyota black is soft being a single stage. I have never read that a soft pad could do this. I figured the marks were do to the aggressiveness of the pads. I guess if I'm happy with the outcome the combination shouldn't matter. Does being closed cell foam vs open cell foam have any effect on this? Are there closed cell polishing/finishing pads? I'm petty sure both my white and green pads are open cell vs the orange closed cell.
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Are you sure that Toyota black is single stage? I know that Toyota's white is single stage.Feed back please
 
Rsurfer said:
Are you sure that Toyota black is single stage? I know that Toyota's white is single stage.Feed back please
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From what I have read, I believe it is. Now when polishing It doesn't seem obvious, the pad isn't covered in black paint, more like a pad that's polished off some embedded contaminates on the paint. I'm not 100% on the SS, but the paint is know to be very scratch sensitive which is the bigger issue for me.
 
You can't beat LC HD orbital pads! They don't fold over as mentioned above. My absolute favorite foam pads! The red finishing pad and menzerna sf4500 will finish great on anything. I am very ocd about micro marring and no matter what technique I use I can always find the slightest sign of micro marring with m205... Esp on black. I find it easier to bump the speed and pressure up on my first few passes with sf4500 to polish after compounding rather than trying to sweet talk m205 into finishing right. I also use the light on my iPhone to check for micro marring because it's a smaller light source than a large LED and makes the tiny "tick marks" stand out more when you get in close to the paint. You would be surprised at what it picks up on what looks like a perfect finish!
 
You can't mistake single stage paint. If after just a few passes your buffing pad is not the color of the car paint, it's a basecoat/clearcoat, not a single stage.
 
I had that that same problem with a green Lexus sc 400 coupe .It corrected nice then I went to polish to do finishing work the paint lost it gloss and clarity,I corrected again and just waxed it weird and it was base coat and clear coat.
 
My 2013 Avalon likes meguiars finishing wax and green uber pad.
205 and menzerna all seam to stick to the paint I only had luck with the finishing wax
 
mbkite said:
My 2013 Avalon likes meguiars finishing wax and green uber pad.
205 and menzerna all seam to stick to the paint I only had luck with the finishing wax
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I will agree menzerna is really sticky when you wipe off. As far as single stage goes the modern single stage paints that are on some toyotas and even Lexus are much harder and produce a lot less paint transfer than the old single stage paints that bleed everywhere
View attachment 37992
This is all I got on a single stage Lexus
 
Only time I have issues with 205 is when my pad is overly saturated, wash pad or change it out and I have no issues.
 
Lol I've tried less polish, more polish, cleaning pads, new pads, different pads, more pressure, less pressure, consistent pressure, more passes, less passes... Some paint I get it right on but most of the time it's back to the menzerna. But hey whatever works for who!
 
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