How to deal with an uneducated customer?

[BrianJM]

I had a vehicle last weekend. Me and the customer agreed on the quote. After it was all said and done he wanted to pay me less. His reasoning was that he thought what I did could have been done by another shop for cheaper and they would have done his interior as well(I provided a 2step paint correction process for him with a sealant application). I charged him 300. I know the shop I used to work at charge a base price of 250 for coupes and sedans plus 60/hr after that. Im just starting to detail on the side in a new area. I know there are not any shops around town that offer true paint restoration or probably any true car care honestly. I fear that people around here will just not be able to understand the process and the cost of this type of work. Im not sure what to do about this. Was thinking of just offering a AIO package to maybe meet there price range and offer full restorations to people I feel would appreciate the work. For instance everyone Ive talked to at me job give me a funny face when I tell them how much I would charge for a full restoration. It makes a part of me want to cut the prices.

Any advice would be awesome, Thanks guys!

 

[Sizzle Chest]

If you agreed on a price, that's it. He should honor the quote that he received and agreed to. That's my take on it...

(there's always someone else that is 'cheaper', you could possibly explain that you did a quality job and that $300 was the agreed upon price)

 

[custmsprty]

If you agreed on a price, that's it. He should honor the quote that he received and agreed to. That's my take on it...

(there's always someone else that is 'cheaper', you could possibly explain that you did a quality job and that $300 was the agreed upon price)

:iagree:

Additionally a product like HD ADapt or Menzerna FG400 would let you knock that down to a one step polish + a sealant. I charge friends $250.00 for that on an average sized sports coupe or mid size sedan. I can usually do that in about 5 to 5-1/2 hours.

 

[BrianJM]

I totally agree. Where I messed up is it was a friend and I didn't walk him thru the process before hand as well as find the best service for him. Regardless we did talk about it and he knew what I was doing just didn't take as much time as I maybe should have.

 

[custmsprty]

I totally agree. Where I messed up is it was a friend and I didn't walk him thru the process before hand as well as find the best service for him. Regardless we did talk about it and he knew what I was doing just didn't take as much time as I maybe should have.

How long did it take to do the car, what was it?

The average person isn't willing to pay even $100.00 to have their car " detailed" and chances are they won't take care of it afterwards. Very few people are willing to pay the price for paint correction and you'll drive yourself insane trying to educate them.

 

[GSKR]

There is people who shop value or price.you can accommodate both,don't kill the starting conversation with I can detail your car for 800.00.when dealing with the public you have to be able to go through the motions on what they want to spend and expect.Being mobile I get the how much do you charge across the parking lot.I totally ignore that,when a potential client wants quality they will let you know and that's when you quote a job accordingly.as far as the customer wanted to give you less after the job,is not your promblem and I hope you didn't take less.Restoration jobs will come in time after you have proven a good word of mouth reputation.

 

[BrianJM]

How long did it take to do the car, what was it?

The average person isn't willing to pay even $100.00 to have their car " detailed" and chances are they won't take care of it afterwards. Very few people are willing to pay the price for paint correction and you'll drive yourself insane trying to educate them.

I'd say the actual paint restoration took 4 hours. I should have taken a little longer but I wasted a lot of my time trying to repair a key scratch. I learned a lot from attempting to do the scratch but it took a lot of time away from me working on the rest of the car. In his defense I was only able to get 80-85% of the defects out. The paint was thrashed before hand. It was a red g35. Do you include a engine cleaning, interior vacuum, wipe down and Windows in that 250?
Because that was one of his arguments. I didn't do the engine bay and my shopvac needs some parts so I couldn't vacuum. The inside wasn't crazy dirty

 

[custmsprty]

^^^^:dblthumb2:^^^^

Excellent advice.

It took well over six months for my neighbor to approach me to do his Black 370Z. This was after I asked him once or twice and let it go at that and then one day he texted me and asked me to take a look at it.

 

[BrianJM]

There is people who shop value or price.you can accommodate both,don't kill the starting conversation with I can detail your car for 800.00.when dealing with the public you have to be able to go through the motions on what they want to spend and expect.Being mobile I get the how much do you charge across the parking lot.I totally ignore that,when a potential client wants quality they will let you know and that's when you quote a job accordingly.as far as the customer wanted to give you less after the job,is not your promblem and I hope you didn't take less.Restoration jobs will come in time after you have proven a good word of mouth reputation.

That's awesome advice, thank you

 

[fly07sti]

I'd suggest printing out Mike P's VIF. That way you have something in writing. Just as if you were taking your car into any repair shop. Have to sign paper with "initial price" before anything.

 

[BrianJM]

I'd suggest printing out Mike P's VIF. That way you have something in writing. Just as if you were taking your car into any repair shop. Have to sign paper with "initial price" before anything.

Yeah I definitely need them. I asked Mike for some forms. Waiting for him to email them to me.

 

[custmsprty]

I'd say the actual paint restoration took 4 hours. I should have taken a little longer but I wasted a lot of my time trying to repair a key scratch. I learned a lot from attempting to do the scratch but it took a lot of time away from me working on the rest of the car. In his defense I was only able to get 80-85% of the defects out. The paint was thrashed before hand. It was a red g35. Do you include a engine cleaning, interior vacuum, wipe down and Windows in that 250?
Because that was one of his arguments. I didn't do the engine bay and my shopvac needs some parts so I couldn't vacuum. The inside wasn't crazy dirty

Thanks for the additional info.

For $250 I washed it and did a one step with HD Adapt and topped it with HD Poxy. Did wheels and tires, wiped down door jams. Since he's a buddy I did a quick wipe down of the door panels with CG Silk. No vacuum, no engine detailing etc.

It took me 4 hours or so to do the one step with HD Adapt and I got 95%+ correction. Saying this nicely, no way should you be able to do an effective two step polish in 4 hours. You and I were working on the same size vehicles and sister vehicles at that. Most likely not enough section passes etc. I had to do 3-4 test spots before I arrived at the correct combination of machine, product and pad before I was happy with the results. Did you do any test spots before you started? What products, machine, pads etc. did you use? These are all things we need to know on the forum to better help you achieve the results you're after for yourself and your potential clients.

Here's the link to the show and shine for the Z. Note the hood before and after. It was virtually flawless with a one step with Adapt. This might be a combination you may want to look into. HD products are very reasonably priced and extremely user friendly. And that was my first time ever using Adapt!

My neighbor was ecstatic with the results.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...ssan-370-z-griots-g21-hd-adapt-7-hd-poxy.html

 

[Calendyr]

I'd say the actual paint restoration took 4 hours. I should have taken a little longer but I wasted a lot of my time trying to repair a key scratch. I learned a lot from attempting to do the scratch but it took a lot of time away from me working on the rest of the car. In his defense I was only able to get 80-85% of the defects out. The paint was thrashed before hand. It was a red g35. Do you include a engine cleaning, interior vacuum, wipe down and Windows in that 250?
Because that was one of his arguments. I didn't do the engine bay and my shopvac needs some parts so I couldn't vacuum. The inside wasn't crazy dirty

Wow! Ok first off, most detailer will charge about 100$ per scratch on top of anything else. Wet sanding is time consuming and there is a cost in material as well.

Second, you will pretty much never get all the defects out with an AIO. AIO get most of the defects out and seal the paint at the same time. It's great for the client because instead of paying for 8-10 hours of work, he pays for 3-4. But don't expect it to give you the same result at a 3 step correction and seal.

Regarding the price, get yourself and estimate sheet or make one. Have the client sign it after you agree on the price and before you start the job. Mine says that price is approximate and dépends on time it takes to do the job. I reserve the right to charge up to 2 extra hours at 40$ per hour over the price agreed upon. I explain that to the client and then have him sign. I never had anyone try to cut price when it came time to pay. When you quote him a price, always explain that no 2 cars are the same and you are giving him a price based on past experience and how long it usually takes. People can understand if you explain before hand. And for pete's sake, don't do scratch repairs for free! Scratch repairs are dangerous, you could go through the clear and if you do, guess who will have to pay for a re-paint? There is a risk to you so charge accordingly!

 

[custmsprty]

Yeah I definitely need them. I asked Mike for some forms. Waiting for him to email them to me.

Did you do any test spots before you started? What products, machine, pads etc. did you use? These are all things we need to know on the forum to better help you achieve the results you're after for yourself and your potential clients.

 

[BrianJM]

Thanks for the additional info.

For $250 I washed it and did a one step with HD Adapt and topped it with HD Poxy. Did wheels and tires, wiped down door jams. Since he's a buddy I did a quick wipe down of the door panels with CG Silk. No vacuum, no engine detailing etc.

It took me 4 hours or so to do the one step with HD Adapt and I got 95%+ correction. Saying this nicely, no way should you be able to do an effective two step polish in 4 hours. You and I were working on the same size vehicles and sister vehicles at that. Most likely not enough section passes etc. I had to do 3-4 test spots before I arrived at the correct combination of machine, product and pad before I was happy with the results. Did you do any test spots before you started? What products, machine, pads etc. did you use? These are all things we need to know on the forum to better help you achieve the results you're after for yourself and your potential clients.

Here's the link to the show and shine for the Z. Note the hood before and after. It was virtually flawless with a one step with Adapt. This might be a combination you may want to look into. HD products are very reasonably priced and extremely user friendly. And that was my first time ever using Adapt!

My neighbor was ecstatic with the results.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...ssan-370-z-griots-g21-hd-adapt-7-hd-poxy.html

Great advise thank you! And yeah I def didint get to put as much time into it as I wanted. I did a test spot with megs105 and megs foam cutting pad and megs205 with megs polishing pad. Got the results I wanted I put a good amount of time into the cutting but when I saw that I was in a crunch for time I went thru the polishing stage fairly quick. Not what I wanted to do but I just didn't have the time. I definitely need a AIO.

Also it was my first time attempting to repair a key scratch and didn't really turn out how I wanted. I definitely learned from it but it took most of my time.

 

[BrianJM]

Did you do any test spots before you started? What products, machine, pads etc. did you use? These are all things we need to know on the forum to better help you achieve the results you're after for yourself and your potential clients.

I was using the flew3401 with 105/205 with megs foam cutting pad and megs foam polishing pad. I def need more options.

 

[custmsprty]

As I mentioned before, what you need is a good one step polish procedure with something like HD Adapt or FG400. An AIO won't get it done. You have the tool for it, that's for sure. I don't own a Flex and probably never will, but I certainly respect it's capabilities.

I'll never own a rotary either and that being said, GSKR he does some amazing work with a rotary. It's just not my cup of tea but I admire the talent he has and what he achieves with it.

It sounds to me from what you're additional posts vs your first post you may owe him a little back or redo the polish step or do his engine bay etc. Something to make him feel a little better about the $300.00 investment.

This is a valid question and no easy way to ask it.

Did he ask you specifically to repair the key scratch or invest the time in learning on his car how to do it or did he hire you to detail his car?

I ask this because any business is about satisfying the customer and understanding their expectations is the only way to accomplish that.

 

[BrianJM]

As I mentioned before, what you need is a good one step polish procedure with something like HD Adapt or FG400. An AIO won't get it done. You have the tool for it, that's for sure. I don't own a Flex and probably never will, but I certainly respect it's capabilities.

I'll never own a rotary either and that being said, GSKR he does some amazing work with a rotary. It's just not my cup of tea but I admire the talent he has and what he achieves with it.

Are HD Adapt and FG400 polishes that have great cutting ability without losing the finish of a polish? Work well with all types of paint? I need to check it out. How aggressive of a pad do you use?

 

[asap2stacks]

You sure really start writing up blank contracts and once you and the customer have agreed on a price for the detail have them and yourself sign and date the contract. This way so there is no problem when it comes to the payment situation. As far as them saying they could go some where else for cheaper, well then let them go there next time. Im sure if you are the best in town then when they get there $150 detail from the next place then they will understand why they paid $200 form you brother. keep up the good work man.

 

[BrianJM]

Wow! Ok first off, most detailer will charge about 100$ per scratch on top of anything else. Wet sanding is time consuming and there is a cost in material as well.

Second, you will pretty much never get all the defects out with an AIO. AIO get most of the defects out and seal the paint at the same time. It's great for the client because instead of paying for 8-10 hours of work, he pays for 3-4. But don't expect it to give you the same result at a 3 step correction and seal.

Regarding the price, get yourself and estimate sheet or make one. Have the client sign it after you agree on the price and before you start the job. Mine says that price is approximate and dépends on time it takes to do the job. I reserve the right to charge up to 2 extra hours at 40$ per hour over the price agreed upon. I explain that to the client and then have him sign. I never had anyone try to cut price when it came time to pay. When you quote him a price, always explain that no 2 cars are the same and you are giving him a price based on past experience and how long it usually takes. People can understand if you explain before hand. And for pete's sake, don't do scratch repairs for free! Scratch repairs are dangerous, you could go through the clear and if you do, guess who will have to pay for a re-paint? There is a risk to you so charge accordingly!

Your 100% right about doing the scratch for free. I've had wet sanding experience but not filling in a deep scratch with touch up. It was more of an experiment. Which in hind site was a huge mistake. It cost me money and kept me from giving the customer the results he was expecting as far as the paint in general. I just need to get an old hood from the local yard and key it myself and see what I can do.

Thanks for the advice man it's awesome to get opinions from professionals that have way more exp than me!