Rupes mark ii 15 stalling badly

dlc95 said:
This is on page 2 of Mike Phillips' how to book for the Rupes polishing system.
Click to expand...

Here's a full size picture of that statement in my RUPES how-to book and if I wrote it I definitely mean it.

11_Tips_for_using_The_RUPES_Paint_Polishing_System_02.jpg


The RUPES orbital polishers are simply different than traditional orbital polishers and a person new to RUPES that has been using other tools simply needs to spend some time behind the tool to get a feel for working with it.

Once you get good with the RUPES orbital polishers you can make them dance on paint.

Like this,


watermark.php


watermark.php



watermark.php


watermark.php





Buffing curved panels with NEW RUPES Mark II BigFoot 21 & 15 Polishers

watermark.php









dlc95 said:
I was frustrated as heck with that thing. Like I said, I kept going back to the Porter Cable.

But I dedicated some time when I wasn't on the job to acquainting myself with it. It paid off because the results have been better than I would have imagined.
Click to expand...


As I like to say,

"You need to put some time behind the tool"



:dblthumb2:
 
Sorry to hear about your frustration with the new Mark ll. Nice to see people chiming in trying to help. Also props for Rupes responding to your email and trying to get your issue addressed.

I added a 21mm long throw to my aresnal of polishers last year. Before I bought it my 3401 and rotary were my go to tools. I will say even with my experience it took a bit getting used to. But like everyone else said once you do you will be glad you stuck with it. I think Zubair said that a 21 will correct on orbit alone which I have to believe. I run mine with a washer mod and it's a beast. I think Rupes is correct on you getting a video of yourself using the machine so they/us can try to get you back on track.

Good luck and post some finished shots of the M3 when done!
 
Zubair said:
I disagree,my 15ES on orbit alone corrects,

8mm throws need rotation, long throws cut on orbit.
Click to expand...

I wold have to respectfully disagree.

In my opinion and experience, in order for any orbital polisher to remove defects it must remove paint and paint is removed most effectively if the pad is BOTH rotating and oscillating.

I don't think an orbital tool can remove paint if the pad is ONLY oscillating because this would basically be the pad vibrating against the paint. It's the combination of rotation and oscillation that removes paint. I'm open to changing my mind if someone can take a car with swirls and scratches and remove them using only oscillation and zero pad rotation.

Even if it worled.... which I don't think it will.... it would take a LOT longer to correct a car than it would if the pad is both rotating and oscillating.


:dunno:
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
I wold have to respectfully disagree.

In my opinion and experience, in order for any orbital polisher to remove defects it must remove paint and paint is removed most effectively if the pad is BOTH rotating and oscillating.

I don't think an orbital tool can remove paint if the pad is ONLY oscillating because this would basically be the pad vibrating against the paint. It's the combination of rotation and oscillation that removes paint. I'm open to changing my mind if someone can take a car with swirls and scratches and remove them using only oscillation and zero pad rotation.

Even if it worled.... which I don't think it will.... it would take a LOT longer to correct a car than it would if the pad is both rotating and oscillating.


:dunno:
Click to expand...

I agree. I don't think 15mm or even 21mm is enough movement to efficiently correct paint.
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
I wold have to respectfully disagree.

In my opinion and experience, in order for any orbital polisher to remove defects it must remove paint and paint is removed most effectively if the pad is BOTH rotating and oscillating.

I don't think an orbital tool can remove paint if the pad is ONLY oscillating because this would basically be the pad vibrating against the paint. It's the combination of rotation and oscillation that removes paint. I'm open to changing my mind if someone can take a car with swirls and scratches and remove them using only oscillation and zero pad rotation.

Even if it worled.... which I don't think it will.... it would take a LOT longer to correct a car than it would if the pad is both rotating and oscillating.


:dunno:
Click to expand...

I removed swirls on a Ferrari California rear fender which has hectic curves using my 15ES which was orbiting only. I removed swirls on an F30 Bmw bonnet which curves aggressively at the sides with orbit only, backing plate is marked so I know there wasn't rotation. Those are the two that come to mind where I paid particular attention. I've gotten so accustomed to my Rupes correcting under any condition that I don't pay attention to rotation anymore. I have done a dozen or more side by sides using both my 15ES and 3401 and my Rupes always corrects faster. I won't even compare my 3401 to my 21 MKII in speed of correction as its no contest. The Rupes doesn't vibrate or need pressure thus easier on my body, doesn't tire me out. I enjoy the Flex 3401 no doubt but it feels like an antique compared to the long throw technology polishers. My Flex PE-14 is a gem and thus far is a demon as far as correction speeds are concerned. Were I to buy another Flex it would be a PE-14 not the 3401. But right now I'm so impressed with Rupes I will order a 15 MKII.
 
Excellent comments and observations after Dylan's point of view maybe its time to down size my polishers to Rupes Mark11 15.......
 
Zubair said:
I removed swirls on a Ferrari California rear fender which has hectic curves using my 15ES which was orbiting only. I removed swirls on an F30 Bmw bonnet which curves aggressively at the sides with orbit only, backing plate is marked so I know there wasn't rotation. Those are the two that come to mind where I paid particular attention. I've gotten so accustomed to my Rupes correcting under any condition that I don't pay attention to rotation anymore. I have done a dozen or more side by sides using both my 15ES and 3401 and my Rupes always corrects faster. I won't even compare my 3401 to my 21 MKII in speed of correction as its no contest. The Rupes doesn't vibrate or need pressure thus easier on my body, doesn't tire me out. I enjoy the Flex 3401 no doubt but it feels like an antique compared to the long throw technology polishers. My Flex PE-14 is a gem and thus far is a demon as far as correction speeds are concerned. Were I to buy another Flex it would be a PE-14 not the 3401. But right now I'm so impressed with Rupes I will order a 15 MKII.
Click to expand...

I wonder why Rupes came out with the MKII with 30% more power? Was that 30% more vibration power?
 
Rsurfer said:
I wonder why Rupes came out with the MKII with 30% more power? Was that 30% more vibration power?
Click to expand...

Noone said rotation doesn't correct, if that was the case a rotary would be useless. I was addressing the comment about orbit only being unable to correct which I myself and Rupes have found that statement to be incorrect. Rotation+Orbit will ofcourse give higher correction than long throw alone.

The point is long throws correct on orbit only, comparing an orbital which has very low opm's and a bonnet to a purpose built high torque high opm powerhouse like the BigFoot is like comparing a butter knife to a scalpel.
 
Zubair said:
Noone said rotation doesn't correct, I didn't say orbit only doesn't correct, but wouldn't you want both (DA), sorry I'm with Mike P. on this.if that was the case a rotary would be useless. I was addressing the comment about orbit only being unable to correct which I myself and Rupes have found that statement to be incorrect. Rotation+Orbit will ofcourse give higher correction than long throw alone.

The point is long throws correct on orbit only, comparing an orbital which has very low opm's and a bonnet to a purpose built high torque high opm powerhouse like the BigFoot is like comparing a butter knife to a scalpel.
Click to expand...
:props:
 
Zubair said:
I disagree,my 15ES on orbit alone corrects, never needed to pull out my 3401 or PE-14 on curves where the 15ES couldn't correct as a result of loss of rotation. They designed to correct with orbit alone as a result of the long throw. No need for another machine.

Too much false information on the forums. 8mm throws need rotation, long throws cut on orbit.
Click to expand...


Exactly
If my G21 stalls on a curve I just work the machine/pad up/down ..rubbing it with oscillations till swirls are gone
 
nothingface5384 said:
Did you also kind of massage the stalled pad into the curved panels?
Click to expand...

Correct, side to side, up and down

Rsurfer said:
Are you saying that the R15 never spun on the Ferrari trunk? How did you accomplish that, lean hard on the flat areas or just tilt the machine?
Click to expand...

Not the flat part no, it didn't stall there,on the sides close to the fender is very curvy- as above massage technique and also tilt as you mentioned, speed 5.
 
Zubair said:
Correct, side to side, up and down



Not the flat part no, it didn't stall there,on the sides close to the fender is very curvy- as above massage technique and also tilt as you mentioned, speed 5.
Click to expand...
That's where a Mini is a blessing and for the really tight spots, the PE 14 with 1" and 2" pads are a joy.
 
Zubair said:
I removed swirls on a Ferrari California rear fender which has hectic curves using my 15ES which was orbiting only.
Click to expand...


Hi Zubair,

You've been a great forum member since 2014 and you and I have discussed hundreds of topics and I always appreciate your opinion, experience and input.

I'm also open to new ideas. I'm the guy that coined the term,

Perpetual Student

Which is what I am.


That said, I'm just having a hard time understanding how a pad just vibrating against paint would also be effective at removing paint.

When I look at a pad on a RUPES BigFoot 15 or 21 and if it's not rotating - and by this I mean the pad is making ZERO rotations... then all it can do is basically vibrate or jiggle against the paint. And I've buffed out a lot of cars with these tools and I just haven't personally seen non-rotating pads removing defects.

Here's what I have seen - when buffing the pad will rotate and then stall at certain times and with enough passes and time you can remove defects but I think the majority of paint being removed comes from when the pad is rotating over it not just jiggling.

I'm open to someone showing me this but even so... paint is removed fastest when the pad is rotating. So the goal when doing correction work or refining work is for a balance of 50% rotation and 50% oscillation. This is how the RUPES tools are designed to work as explained to me in person by RUPES Engineer, Marco D'Inca at SEMA and when he attended my 3-Day Competition Ready Detailing Class.

Just to note... I've read posts by people over the years that have claimed tools like the Porter Cable can remove defects without pad rotation just the pad vibrating or jiggling against the paint but I still don't believe it and have never seen work in person.

But I'm 100% open to learning how this is done, how to do and I'd love to have someone come by and show me in person how a non-rotating pad on an orbital polisher can be effective at removing paint.


:)
 
Mike, I've corrected areas on a clients 07 quad cab ram with a stalled pad via messaging pad up and down several times in curved door sections.

Think of the jiggles as how an orbital finishing sander works with conjunction of the square sanding paper.

Vibration cause friction, which In turns abraids, resulting in correction.

Is it optimum compared to correction via rotation or rotation/oscillation combo? No, but it works, just slower
 
Hi Mike,

Thanks for the amicable response. You and I both know I am far from being a Rupes Engineer so cant base any statements as to how or why exactly orbit alone has corrected for and continues to for me but I will give it a shot and hope Todd and Dylan would come in with hard facts. Heres why I think orbit has tremendous amounts of cut on the Rupes:

1. Powerful high torque 500W motor to power the orbit.
2. Long throw sling shot effect creating massive friction as the pad violently abrades across the paint surface in all directions.
3. 4000+ OPM.

Surely that above 3 points have the ability to remove paint.

My backing plates are marked, no rotation on certain curves yet the defects are gone after, this to me is evidence of high opm's,powerful motor and long throw doing its thing.

I await the Rupes guys to add to, clarify or correct any of my points.

As for being students, ditto on that, we all come here to share,learn and have constructive arguments all detailing related. The passion burns strong on this forum.
 
Like the slight curved is in the door, the curve is horizontal across the panel.
Obviously the pad has stalled there
To get correction you Need to" cross the river" multiple times

If the curve was verticle, I'd "cross the river" horizontally

Zubairs cross hatch may prove a lil quicker then mine since he's attacking it at both horizontal and vertical

https://www.facebook.com/1754530181...530181430406/1754919288058162/?type=3&theater
like this technique works well at the sections bdelow the mirror, the upper part of bedside, the fender to piller area
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top