Need help with "microscratches" and "micropits"

[olariu]

I have been washing and waxing cars for over fifty years, but in the last couple of months monitoring this forum and reading Mike Phillip's books, I realize I am a total noob. I always wanted a buffer and almost bought a PC earlier this year. I held off and did more research. I ended up with a Rupes 21 Mk II and a 75E (one of the packages here on AG). I am glad I bit the bullet and splurged a little (er, a lot, I guess). I am getting the hang of the process and and have worked on three cars now. I did my son's 08 Acura with HD Force one-step and was shocked at the results. Actually we did it together. Me on the 75E and he on the big one. Double-teaming it worked great; we knocked it out quickly, including claying the car, which it needed.

Here's my question. I have a '14 Lexus GS350 in silver-just got it with 25K miles. Very clean inside and out. Despite it looking "nice and shiny", closer inspection reveals what I call "microscratches" and "micropits". They don't show up with a "swirl finder light" but with fluorescent and a low angle (near parallel to surface) you can see the defects. Again, you have to look for them, but it bothers me (OCD...). The main problem area is the rear deck and roof. The hood, strangely, is good, and so are the sides of the car.

So, being a cautious beginner I started with the Rupes yellow pad and Keramik. It improved the gloss but the defects were still there. Next, I went with a UHS pad and compound. I then saw some improvement, but still not there. The next step was the Rupes green pad and compound. I then saw some real improvement. So, I then hit the rear deck with the yellow...then white pad with the extra fine compound and Blackfire Wet Diamond LSP. It does look excellent, but I am not satisfied. So..I have ordered a couple blue pad and the Rupes blue compound. I never thought I would need the sharp end of the stick so I did not have those materials.

Should I try the blue pad/compound on a test spot and see what's what? Or find a good psychiatrist that specializes in OCD car enthusiasts? The latter would be cheaper if I screw up the paint on a fairly expensive car.

Jeff

 

[Rsurfer]

Least aggressive on a test spot always.:xyxthumbs:

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I have been washing and waxing cars for over fifty years, but in the last couple of months monitoring this forum and reading Mike Phillip's books, I realize I am a total noob.

Ha ha, a lot of us felt that way when we found car detailing forums.

 

[Eldorado2k]

Why didn't you continue with the Green pad on the rear deck since you were getting great results with it? Keep talking about the Green pad.. It seems to rarely get mentioned and I'd love to hear more about them, especially since I just bought a couple and have yet to use them

 

[Rsurfer]

Why didn't you continue with the Green pad on the rear deck since you were getting great results with it? Keep talking about the Green pad.. It seems to rarely get mentioned and I'd love to hear more about them, especially since I just bought a couple and have yet to use them

The green Rupes pad cuts well, but not very durable. If you change out pads often, they will last longer.

 

[olariu]

I did not think of that! I thought you did 6 or 8 section passes and if not corrected go more aggressive. I will try it. Thanks.

 

[Jeremy1976]

Nice car bud. I have a 2015 IS350 awd F Sport in Tri coat pearl white. Love it!

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[Eldorado2k]

The green Rupes pad cuts well, but not very durable. If you change out pads often, they will last longer.

Even using the green Rupes compound eh? I was kinda wondering if it was due to compounds/polishes that contain solvents but it doesn't sound like it.. Oh well, they were free! Lol.

Quik question: Would Carpro Essence be considered in the solvent category?

 

[Rsurfer]

Even using the green Rupes compound eh?Don't know, I'm a Menzerna fan. I was kinda wondering if it was due to compounds/polishes that contain solvents but it doesn't sound like it.. Oh well, they were free! Lol.

Quik question: Would Carpro Essence be considered in the solvent category?

Not sure, but I believe it is solvent based.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I have been washing and waxing cars for over fifty years, but in the last couple of months monitoring this forum and reading Mike Phillip's books, I realize I am a total noob.

I was a total newbie too one time...


I just found something I liked, (car detailing), stayed with it. Along the way, sharing what I learned with others. It helps to be able to type at least as fast as I think....

I always wanted a buffer and almost bought a PC earlier this year. I held off and did more research. I ended up with a Rupes 21 Mk II and a 75E (one of the packages here on AG). I am glad I bit the bullet and splurged a little (er, a lot, I guess). I am getting the hang of the process and and have worked on three cars now. I did my son's 08 Acura with HD Force one-step and was shocked at the results. Actually we did it together. Me on the 75E and he on the big one. Double-teaming it worked great; we knocked it out quickly, including claying the car, which it needed.

Amazing how safe modern orbital polishers are and what phenomenal results even someone BRAND NEW to machine polishing can do with todays compounds and pads.

Back just about 20 years or so ago you actually had to have talent, skill and experience to make the tools, the pads and the archaic caveman compounds and polishes work to get great results. This is why I always say the most important factor when it comes to polishing scratch-sensitive clearcoat paints is the abrasive technology and not technique or tool.

It is the abrasives that "touch" the paint first.

Here's my question. I have a '14 Lexus GS350 in silver-just got it with 25K miles. Very clean inside and out. Despite it looking "nice and shiny", closer inspection reveals what I call "microscratches" and "micropits".

Should I try the blue pad/compound on a test spot and see what's what?

Jeff

Great question Jeff.

I would try the blue/blue - at least to a test spot. If after making 6-8 thorough section passes like I share in all my how-to books the defects are NOT 100% removed then I would learn to live with them instead of trying to remove them 100%.

The RUPES Blue/Blue combo is my favorite RUPES combo followed by White/White. In fact I just taught this combo on a 1957 Pontiac Star Chief in London.


Pictures from Autogeek's Competition Ready Roadshow Detailing Class at Waxstock in England!


See what's in my hand? See the pad and tool?

The results were simply incredible...

(Just wait for the BEFORE pictures for the paint on this purple people eater, the paint was absolutely trashed before the class)



If the Blue/Blue combo doesn't remove them 100% then you could get more aggressive BUT you risk removing too much paint and causing the clearcoat to fail down the road. Just go for gloss and avoid a repaint. If you haven't read this yet, then take a gander and next time you see a post-it note, hold it between your thumb and fore finger. The clear layer of paint on your car is thinner than the post-it note. When you feel how thin the post-it note is you'll understand the importance of finding balance when removing stubborn paint defects.




Clearcoats are thin by Mike Phillips


The majority of cars being manufactured today and starting since the 1980's use what's called a basecoat/clearcoat paint system. With this system, a clear layer of paint is sprayed over the top of the basecoat which is also the color coat or the layer of paint that has pigment in it. If the car has a metallic finish then the metallic flakes are also in the basecoat.

The basecoat doesn't offer any gloss or shine and in fact it's dull or matte looking after it's sprayed. The basecoat gets it's gloss, shine, depth and reflectivity by the spraying of the clearcoat layer of paint over the top of it. This is why if a person removes too much clearcoat when buffing and they expose the basecoat it will appear to be a dull round or oval spot on a body panel. The part of the paint system that adds beauty has been removed revealing the dull or matte basecoat layer of paint.



Just how thin is the clear layer of paint on a factory paint job?

The factory clearcoat on a new or modern car measures approximately 2 mils thin.

The average post-it not is around 3 mils thin.

What does this mean?

This means the factory clearcoat on a new or modern car is thinner than a post-it note.

The next time you have a post-it note in front of you, feel a single post-it note between your fingers. Like this...

This experience will drive home the point as to just how thin the clear layer of paint is on modern car with a factory paint job.

It should also drive home the importance of using the least aggressive pad, product and even tools to get the job done.

When I say, get the job done, the context of this usually means someone is buffing out a car to remove paint defects like swirls, scratches, water spots and oxidation to make the paint and thus the car look better.

By using the least aggressive products you "get the job done" while leaving the most paint on the car to it will last over the mechanical service life of the car.

If you're working on your own cars and you're reading this you're already ahead of the game by reading the AGO forum and probably being a member so you can ask questions and get help.

If you're working on customer's cars take a professional approach as a service to your customers.


If you're reading this and you're going to do the work yourself or hire a detailer then do some research and make sure you hire a detailer that knows this type of stuff because the factory clearcoat on your car is thin.

 

[GSKR]

Just to throw this out the new Lexus paint is very soft,I did a 16 black 460 suv that need alittle tlc,tried HD speed on it with a light cut finishing pad and was marring like crazy.Then tried a finishing pad with some menzerna products corrected the marring.But I wasn't getting paid to do an extensive polish on it.I thought with the speed I could knock out the exterior in one hr.Stopped machine polishing it and put a coat of optimium wax on it .

 

[Paul A.]

I reiterate my approach often on this board and especially on posts like yours, olariu. My approach is in line with what Eldo posted and that's to continue with a pad, product and technique that has proven to be effective. The main reason for my approach is exactly what Mike is talking about with regard to how thin current day paint is. I do not want to remove too much clearcoat paint because i am impatient and want them gone. Factory paint is very precious stuff in my mind. If i see a test spot has yielded some reduction in the defects, i then guage about how much reduction was achieved. If it's a minor result (say 25-30%) i will probably step up my pad and try another test spot with the same product. If that yields about a 50% correction level i will then do 2 passes with that combo. Depending on how the paint is behaving, there have been times that i step up to the next aggressive product with more cut and use the same pad as the first test and go from there. Yes, it takes me longer than another detailer who may determine from a test spot another technique that gets them the first time but they may be removing "125%" of the defects. Sure, 100% of the defect but then another 25% of unnecessary paint removal.

Another key aspect of effective paint leveling is to accurately assess what is worth removing and what is best left alone. Some defects are simply too deep to chase down to flat. That comes from time and experience but you mentioned "pitting". I've had some customers with pitting that simply could not be removed and they were told why i did not want to cut any deeper into their precious paint. Some scratches are also too deep to fully remove. My own car has a couple of significant scratches that i am simply living with. It's a daily driven vehicle and they happen. But i will say with confidence that for a 9 year old black car in FL is still pops the original clearcoat because of my approach.

Go ahead, grab that Post-It note and feel it for yourself.

Some other comments from my experience...every Lexus i've worked on was on the soft and malleable side with regard to its paint. Most times i resorted to a gentle approach to simply persuade them gone. Another observation i'll offer is that roofs and rear deck lids always seem to be worse than the rest of the vehicle. What you are seeing on the GS with 25K on the clock is completely normal. Those top panels get the brunt of the environmental and atmospheric attack. Take some consolation that you're in the majority with us here!

You have some perfect machines for "persuading" that beautiful Lexus paint. Enjoy the living heck out of caressing it!

 

[olariu]

Wow. I appreciate the feedback from Mike and the rest of you experts. THANK YOU for the direction you have given me. I am going to try the blue on a smallish area.

Jeff

 

[olariu]

The blue pad and Rupes blue compound did the trick! It is not 100% but 80% corrected, and you REALLY have to look for the "micropits" in the correct light nearly parallel to the surface. I am happy. After that, I finished up with Rupes white pad and compound. LSP was Blackfire Wet Diamond.

While working on this car I realized that the taillights, looking "fine" at a glance actually were covered with very light scratches - I assume from many drive through robowashes. So...I used HD Force AIO on a UHS pad. WOW WOW - the tail lights are insanely glossy and the scratches are long gone. I did not expect full correction that easily.

BTW, Mike Phillips wrote in this thread: "Amazing how safe modern orbital polishers are and what phenomenal results even someone BRAND NEW to machine polishing can do with todays compounds and pads". He COULD have said "Modern orbital polishers are so easy a caveman can do it!" LOL