Just what the economy needed

This subject is a lot more complex than we could ever begin to discuss on this forum and goes way beyond the auto workers, however it is symptomatic of the issues facing the entire nation.
 
***ONLY 15% of the cost for a new car is LABOR and MATERIAL ***
 
joe.p said:
I stand strong for the UAW or any Union members for that matter...This country was built on the backs of slave wages...no offense but some of these comments sound like there coming from white collar workers and self employed business owners...02
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I stand behind UAW 100%...Most people who Bock at unionism are the desk workers..not the back bone workers of America....Look at the Miners...produce pickers....construction workers..the list goes on....they built this country under slave conditions...then the unions formed to give them safer working conditions...health benefits for thier families ..retirement annuities ....and most unions were started by Immigrants....since they were the ones that got the pits of hell jobs....sweat shops....miners....and so on....

I work as a mechanic for the Post Office...you think I want to slave over a truck all day for 7.25 a hour...when you bring your car to be serviced...is their labor rate 7.95..no..its more like 79.00 per hour and up...the mechanic probally makes 20.00 of that....maybe...

Get out from behind a desk and work for Wal Mart or some scab construction company hot topping a road for 7.25 and no medical or retirement .....

Sorry this is a very touchy subject for me..its like religion or politics...

AL
 
Al-53 said:
Get out from behind a desk and work for Wal Mart or some scab construction company hot topping a road for 7.25 and no medical or retirement .....

Sorry this is a very touchy subject for me..its like religion or politics...

AL
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I find that a little insulting but understand that this is a touchy subject so I'll try not to take it personally. I was raised on money earned under the umbrella of a union and am VERY grateful for the changes that unions made to the conditions of workers MANY YEARS AGO. I think that comparing an autoworker of today who makes $40.00 / hour to a miner of 100 years that worked a 12 hour day in dangerous conditions only to end up OWING the company money more insulting to the those brave individuals who stood up for workers rights than anyone saying that a $40.00 / hour worker is being greedy for wanting more when the company is LOSING money.

Furthermore, I'll agree that in part this country was built by the hard working laborer, but ONLY IN PART. How can you discount the courage and risk it takes for someone to open their own business? It's as much the entrepeneurship of many Americans that has helped to make this country great and theirs is a greater risk than a modern auto-workers in many ways.

Personally, I do most of my work at a desk, and am what many would consider "white coller" but to imply that I don't work hard is insulting. My job definately has more benefits and pays better than many "blue collar" jobs but are you going to discount the amount of money and the time I spent on an education as well as the amount of time I spent making LESS than most blue collar jobs in order to build a resume to get my job? To me what makes this country GREAT is that everyone can choose for themselves - do you want to risk it all and start your own business? do you want to invest 4, 8, or more years of your life into getting an education so you can "sit behind a desk", do you want to work with your hands or know the joy of building something "real" - there aren't any right or wrong answers that fit everyone and none of these, in my opinions are bad choices. I'm just thankful that I live in a country where I get to make the choice myself rather than knowing I have to be a ____________ because my father was, or for any other reason.
 
-- I cant remember the breakdown, but I know the biggest chunk was spent on advertising.

Thank Unions if you have health care, vacation time, lunch break, a pension, senority rights, and job security.

If not for F.D.R. (with urging from Unions) we would not have social security or unemployment compensation.
 
Social Security??? Woo Hoo, bet I'll never see a dime of it.

Again, I think unions have done a LOT of good in this country and certainly don't want to see them disappear - that's one reason why I think it's important for them to remain REASONABLE with there demands.

It just feels to me like many people seem to think it's not possible for unions to ask for to much... how can that be?
 
I really feel for the Big 3 automakers. If this keeps going on, pretty soon they will no longer be around. I for one have not owned a domestic car primarily because of the quality issues and I guess it is sill stuck with me. I hope that they will find a reasonable resolution to this strike soon.
 
All we want is for Ford, GM, and Chrysler to make vehicles that...

last as longer or longer than other brands
look as well or better
perform as well or better
cost the same or less
and
pay their workers more than other companies...

Geez, what's wrong with them, sounds simple.
 
I have to agree with your comments makdaddy626. If it wasn't for entrepreneurs we would still be living in the stone age.

If you have only worked in a blue collar job it's easy to think that the white collar people have it so good. I was a member of the UAW and I worked on a production line making truck rims. I even had the tip of my finger cut off on the job and went to work the next day. I took the job because it paid far more than any other job I could get without an education. I was one of those blue collar people who looked at the white collar people and thought they had it so good. I finally quite the job to go to college where I really worked my ass off for 6 years getting 2 degrees. I got out of college with lots of IOU's for students loans that I had to pay off. I took a job out of college where I worked 60 hours or more a week for years. Even when I went home I thought about the job. When I went on vacation I would still spend hours on the phone about the job. Looking back at the blue collar job it was not so bad. I would put my 8 hours in and never have to worry about a thing. People in the union didn't worry about much and did as little as possible. It would take a lot for you to get fired. I have made a lot more money in a white collar job but I have paid for it in lots sacrifices, stress and hours worked. I still feel a lot of CEO's in the US make way to much money.

I do believe in taking care of people who work for you. In order to take care of the people you have to be able to make money. As a corporation the shareholders also need to make a fair return on their investment. With all the huge losses GM has had in recent years I don't feel they're in a postion to do anything for the union workers. If they had a number of consecutive years with big profits I would feel differently. The US auto companies are in a fight for their survival. I mostly blame the top management for their problems but it does not change the fact.
 
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Thanks Gary. I just wanted to take a minute and say that I in no way blame the workers for the bad financial position GM finds itself in. I agree with you that most of the blame lands on top managment (and probaby not so much the current group but the management of 10 or 20 years ago). The question CAN'T be about whose to blame though, it has to be HOW to fix it - for everyone's sake.
 
The thing I hate about CEO's, majority of the companies doing poorly have the highest paid CEO's and largest severance packages, and I'm talking poorly as in performance over the years to shareholders, employee's, stupid business decisions etc. Then the companies that are in good standings, business increasing, happy shareholders and employees etc, have the lowest paid CEO's and packages on average. I have a good article in a Forbes mag on this.
 
Gary Sword said:
I do believe in taking care of people who work for you. In order to take care of the people you have to be able to make money. As a corporation the shareholders also need to make a fair return on their investment. With all the huge losses GM has had in recent years I don't feel they're in a postion to do anything for the union workers. If they had a number of consecutive years with big profits I would feel differently. The US auto companies are in a fight for their survival. I mostly blame the top management for their problems but it does not change the fact.
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you hit the nail on the head but it should be a little more pronounced. GM was the biggest employer in the US and DID provide more than offer ample benefits to its workers. By the same token they are NOT currently in a position to do so, and unfortunately the UAW workers arent willing to turn the other cheek. They expect high wages, big benefits, guaranteed retirements, and healthcare. When the bulk of wage earners in America DONT get the same benefits anymore, even the highly educated professional.

The UAW gets to force GM and others to keep lazy, unreliable and unrealistic workers on staff at the cost of being able to hire and keep/promote/benefit the best of best specifically. Michigans economy is directly related to this and exactly why there is no real employment in the state.

I wont even get in the trade imbalance, dumping, and other manuevers the foreign car companies now receive in the US which only adds to a bleak outlook for the domestic manufacturer. GM needs to do whatever possible to revamp the company. As a stockholder, GM car owner, and having family in the industry I still believe GM must hold its head up and lower the UAW expectation to reasonable conditions.
 
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wytstang said:
That's smart we want job security so lets strike. Unions had there time/place, they are not needed today imo.
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Correct sir!

We can all defend ourselves in 2007. Labor unions were created to protect against inhumane working conditions in the early days of America. Total mafia like entities in 07.

I graduated Cornell / employment labor relations. The leading school in the country regarding labor relations.
 
Maybe someone can explain Union Dues to me?

You are sold as labor to a "choked: company.
You are paid hourly and at about a third of the rate you are billed at.
You pay a POST tax "VIG" to a union hall.

To do what for you?
Fire you when things get too costly?
Make you strike to get some fictional benefit?
Offer no job for you to jump to if necessary?

B-fund, you already earned it.....
 
jsatek said:
Correct sir!

We can all defend ourselves in 2007. Labor unions were created to protect against inhumane working conditions in the early days of America. Total mafia like entities in 07.

I graduated Cornell / employment labor relations. The leading school in the country regarding labor relations.
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Great!!!!! you have some book smarts now go out and get some experience..

Unions don't fire people..Companies fire people.

Make you strike to get some fictional benefit?
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Unions don't make you strike..I'm sure all the the members took a vote to decide if they should strike...
 
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Hey Joe P

Companies fire people because union "representatives" choke companies with unfair labor charges that they NEVER give to the union members...

Book smarts don't buy what I have pal, don't fool yourself....lets not get into a cash discussion... lets keep it business.
 
Companies fire people because union "representatives" choke companies with unfair labor charges that they NEVER give to the union members...
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Maybe.. .do you think the Unions are the onlys with there hands in the pockets of big companies..

i like going to work with out the worry when a company crys broke that cant pull out a pencil along with a list names and start cutting jobs..plenty of fat to cut at the top first..

Maybe GM is broke due the fact that the people who are born and raised here in america chose to purchase foreign cars rather then buy American..people chose to work in America but send there monies back to other countrys...don't blame unions for the economy
 
I'm sure you know me from "other forums". Actually, I know you've seen a picture of me.

I'm not kid, I'm 36. 15 YEARS out of college.
I'm not dope, clearly.
And I'm not living in a hole.
To add insult ot injury, 10021 zip code isn't cheap. Actually, I think my annual parking for 1 of my cars is the GNP of a few small countries.

I'm not looking to make personal jabs, Im looking to debate the union mentality during this exciting GM strike time in a false bull market. With S&P over 1510, Canadian dollar on par with the USD, the Euro at 1.41 and climbing. Its a good discussion to have.
 
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