McKee's 37 Paint Coating Not Resistant to Salt?

[Desertnate]

Four months ago, I applied the M37 paint coating to my wife's daily driver. The application was very easy and the results turned out flawless. I was really happy with how everything turned out...at least until a week or so ago.

Recently we had a day of unseasonably warm weather, so like any good Geek, I broke out the hose and buckets. While washing and rinsing my wife's car I noticed the coating was holding up extremely well on all of the horizontal surfaces (hood/roof) and vertical surfaces in front of the wheels (i.e. front quarter panels, front bumpers, and grill). However, on the vertical side panels where salt and typical winter road grime is sprayed, and to a lesser extent on the rear hatch, there was a very distinct line in water behavior. Above the "spray line" the coating was holding up beautifully and water seemed to almost bounce off the surface. Beading was very tight and sheeting was quite rapid. Below that "spray line"...nothing. At all. In fact, even after washing those areas twice, the water would cling to the surface like you'd suspect from an area with no LSP at all. Even when doing a flood rinse a layer of water stuck to these vertical surfaces.

What made this even more concerning was I immediately followed up by washing my car which wears a 4-month old, single layer of Collinite 845. The water behaved like you'd imagine...glorious beading and very rapid sheeting when flood rinsed. There was no "spay line" on the sides or rear hatch. When clean, the surface behaved as a clean car with a good layer of LSP should.

Our winter has been almost non-existent this year. The roads have only been salted heavily twice and both cars have had almost identical cleanings over that time. This leaves me wondering why a coating, even budget friendly consumer grade, would not hold up better than a quality traditional LSP. With the degradation I'm seeing right now from salt spray, the coating hasn't even lasted 4 months in mild winter conditions. I was hoping to get at least a year of protection as the 2-year claims are probably not realistic. At this point I'm going to end up having to re-coat all lower surfaces on half the car, or polish the whole thing and go with another product.

Was it to much to expect the M37 coating to hold up to typical winter salt conditions?

 

[Setec Astronomy]

They are spraying a lot of weird brines on the roads these days (and beet juice). Although I would have expected two washings to have removed anything, is it possible there is still some de-icing film clinging to the coating? What wash did you use?

 

[WillSports3]

Have you tried spraying an apc on the affected areas to see if it's just not broken down enough contaminates? I know with my car that's coated, there's no beading and only a very slow sheeting on my lower panels before I wash it and really clean it.

 

[Mantilgh]

I would try a couple test spots to see if it makes a difference.

Maybe one with a strong APC, and one with IPA, or maybe a spot with both.

I guess they don't want this brine rinsing off the road so it may not rinse (or wash) off the paint easily either.

 

[Desertnate]

They are spraying a lot of weird brines on the roads these days (and beet juice). Although I would have expected two washings to have removed anything, is it possible there is still some de-icing film clinging to the coating? What wash did you use?

Around here, they still use what appears to be the traditional rock salt. You see the trucks dumping loads of it all over the roads, and it quits working when the temps are sub-freezing. This area is a little behind the rest of the country and they haven't started using some of the more "exotic" methods to keep the roads clear. There could still be something stuck to the surface, but it sure looked clean when I was done.

I'm using PB's Super Slick and Suds. It has always seemed to cut through grime well and I like how lubricates the surface while washing. At first I thought glossing agents or something in the soap was interfering with the coating, but that wouldn't explain the distinct line I'm seeing down the doors.

Have you tried spraying an apc on the affected areas to see if it's just not broken down enough contaminates? I know with my car that's coated, there's no beading and only a very slow sheeting on my lower panels before I wash it and really clean it.

The weather has turned cold again, so I haven't had a chance to go after the areas with an APC or even a clay bar to see if that helps. I'll keep that in mind the next time I get a chance to hand wash.

 

[pilotpip]

Did they use the massive amount of crap on the roads in Illinois that they used on the west side of the area?

 

[fly07sti]

This was kind of my experience with this coating with the exception of it was under the DP label.
To me we shouldn't need to spray an apc or anything on these coatings to restore there lsp characteristics. If his other vehicle with 845 is performing better than a coating, that's kind of a let down with the coating.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Around here, they still use what appears to be the traditional rock salt. You see the trucks dumping loads of it all over the roads, and it quits working when the temps are sub-freezing. This area is a little behind the rest of the country and they haven't started using some of the more "exotic" methods to keep the roads clear. There could still be something stuck to the surface, but it sure looked clean when I was done.

I'm using PB's Super Slick and Suds. It has always seemed to cut through grime well and I like how lubricates the surface while washing. At first I thought glossing agents or something in the soap was interfering with the coating, but that wouldn't explain the distinct line I'm seeing down the doors.

At least in my area they stripe a brine (I understand it's magnesium chloride) sometimes several days ahead of the storm. It dries and gives them the advantages of having all the roads covered with something as soon as the snow starts (instead of playing catch-up with the salt trucks), and is supposed to keep the snow/ice from "sticking" to the road surface making subsequent plowing/salting more effective. It's also supposed to be the most corrosive compound (MgCl) to car structures used for this purpose.

One other thing to keep in mind is oil and other stuff from the road that can get mixed in with the salt if it's the first time it's precipitated in a while.

Anyway, keep us posted on what you find out about if the coating has failed.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

This was kind of my experience with this coating with the exception of it was under the DP label.
To me we shouldn't need to spray an apc or anything on these coatings to restore there lsp characteristics. If his other vehicle with 845 is performing better than a coating, that's kind of a let down with the coating.

I dunno, maybe I've been out of the loop with this stuff, but I remember there being some threads about Opti-Coat building up contaminants on top over time (just like would build up on your CC) and that some sort of decon might be required periodically to restore the "lsp characteristics". I can't remember if it was Rasky or Zach suggesting that even a coated car needs to be washed regularly to keep this from happening (and disappointing the customer).

 

[fly07sti]

I dunno, maybe I've been out of the loop with this stuff, but I remember there being some threads about Opti-Coat building up contaminants on top over time (just like would build up on your CC) and that some sort of decon might be required periodically to restore the "lsp characteristics". I can't remember if it was Rasky or Zach suggesting that even a coated car needs to be washed regularly to keep this from happening (and disappointing the customer).

I would understand doing a stronger "decon wash" if it had been a while, but he said it's been washed the same as his vehicle which has a traditional lsp and it's performing good.
I enjoyed the slickness and ease of using it but it didn't hold up for me on 2 different vehicles.

 

[Nick McKees37]

It might just be a film of "dirt" as others have mentioned. I would try a stronger dilution of your favorite car wash when you clean it.

Most of my family is still back home in Flint, Michigan. Fortunately I've been able to convince most of them the significance of coating/waxing their vehicle before winter. One thing I always stress, regardless of the product that they end up using, is to use a high quality spray wax or detail spray after washing the vehicle. Why? Because frequent car care is easy car care. Every time you "touch" the vehicle during the winter months, you should be adding some form of protection to guard your paint against salt, oil, etc. I would recommend McKee's 37 High Gloss Detail Spray because it plays very well with the Paint Coating. It's also a breeze to apply in freezing temperatures where a lot of other detail sprays will streak and smear.

That is uh, ahem, one of many reasons that I moved to Florida.

 

[fly07sti]

It might just be a film of "dirt" as others have mentioned. I would try a stronger dilution of your favorite car wash when you clean it.

Most of my family is still back home in Flint, Michigan. Fortunately I've been able to convince most of them the significance of coating/waxing their vehicle before winter. One thing I always stress, regardless of the product that they end up using, is to use a high quality spray wax or detail spray after washing the vehicle. Why? Because frequent car care is easy car care. Every time you "touch" the vehicle during the winter months, you should be adding some form of protection to guard your paint against salt, oil, etc. I would recommend McKee's 37 High Gloss Detail Spray because it plays very well with the Paint Coating. It's also a breeze to apply in freezing temperatures where a lot of other detail sprays will streak and smear.

That is uh, ahem, one of many reasons that I moved to Florida.

Nick, were there any changes made to this coating from when it was under the DP label?

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I would understand doing a stronger "decon wash" if it had been a while, but he said it's been washed the same as his vehicle which has a traditional lsp and it's performing good.
I enjoyed the slickness and ease of using it but it didn't hold up for me on 2 different vehicles.

I understand what you're saying, and I believe you...I'm only noting, that as is being discussed in the parallel thread on "Dawn stripping", some of our assumptions about things based on water behavior have turned out to be erroneous, which is also IMO the reason for all the interest in the "leaves nothing behind" vs. "leaves something behind" RW er...discussions.

 

[fly07sti]

I understand what you're saying, and I believe you...I'm only noting, that as is being discussed in the parallel thread on "Dawn stripping", some of our assumptions about things based on water behavior have turned out to be erroneous, which is also IMO the reason for all the interest in the "leaves nothing behind" vs. "leaves something behind" RW er...discussions.

Ya I get it. Hopefully a strong wash will restore it. Even if it doesn't, it's super easy and quick to apply again.

 

[RaskyR1]

There has been a lot of discussion about this recently so I'm doing some testing on my own. One things for sure, just because the beading has fallen of doesn't mean the coating has necessarily failed. In my area they use both rock salt on the roads as well as a brine solution (magnesium chloride). It's believed that the liquid chemicals are sticking to the paint and may require some form of chemical decon to release it and bring back the hydrophobic properties. I would suggest IronX, TarX, and possibly Optimum MDR, as that is what Optimum is suggesting you use.

Regular weekly washing seems to be keeping it in check so far on my wife's car, which is wearing OCP+. I did go 2 weeks without washing it once and the lowers fell off a little bit, but still beading well. There is some light tar on it now too so that could be the reason for the trailing off of the beading. If you go several weeks without washing its seems this will definitely kill the beading....Zach has observed the same I believe.

I set up a test on my truck last weekend with 8 coatings and one durable wax to see which stays looking cleaner, which releases dirt the best, and to see if there is a difference on how the winter chemicals affect their beading.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Thanks, Rasky. Are you back to applying OCP? Or is that just leftovers?

 

[Souldetailer]

There has been a lot of discussion about this recently so I'm doing some testing on my own. One things for sure, just because the beading has fallen of doesn't mean the coating has necessarily failed. In my area they use both rock salt on the roads as well as a brine solution (magnesium chloride). It's believed that the liquid chemicals are sticking to the paint and may require some form of chemical decon to release it and bring back the hydrophobic properties. I would suggest IronX, TarX, and possibly Optimum MDR, as that is what Optimum is suggesting you use.

Regular weekly washing seems to be keeping it in check so far on my wife's car, which is wearing OCP+. I did go 2 weeks without washing it once and the lowers fell off a little bit, but still beading well. There is some light tar on it now too so that could be the reason for the trailing off of the beading. If you go several weeks without washing its seems this will definitely kill the beading....Zach has observed the same I believe.

I set up a test on my truck last weekend with 8 coatings and one durable wax to see which stays looking cleaner, which releases dirt the best, and to see if there is a difference on how the winter chemicals affect their beading.

Thanks, Rasky. Are you back to applying OCP? Or is that just leftovers?

Yeah, thanks Rasky. Looking forward to the results.

 

[RaskyR1]

Thanks, Rasky. Are you back to applying OCP? Or is that just leftovers?

No, I'm still not installing it....I got it off Amazon.

 

[Desertnate]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Short of total product failure, it seems a "deeper" clean may be in order to restore the coating properties. Once warmer weather returns to this area, I'll try a stronger dilution of shampoo, and play around with an APC wipe down and possibly claying it too.

Not to get too far off topic, but I've never seen the spray on road products used in my area. Where I live it's a patchwork of county, small municipalities, and state road crews taking care of the roads. While they tend to do a better job of clearing the roads than their Missouri counterparts across the river, their love of rock salt is stong. They don't pre-treat anything and simply drop truck loads of salt grains all over our roads AFTER the weather turns bad...

It might just be a film of "dirt" as others have mentioned. I would try a stronger dilution of your favorite car wash when you clean it.

Most of my family is still back home in Flint, Michigan. Fortunately I've been able to convince most of them the significance of coating/waxing their vehicle before winter. One thing I always stress, regardless of the product that they end up using, is to use a high quality spray wax or detail spray after washing the vehicle. Why? Because frequent car care is easy car care. Every time you "touch" the vehicle during the winter months, you should be adding some form of protection to guard your paint against salt, oil, etc. I would recommend McKee's 37 High Gloss Detail Spray because it plays very well with the Paint Coating. It's also a breeze to apply in freezing temperatures where a lot of other detail sprays will streak and smear.

That is uh, ahem, one of many reasons that I moved to Florida.

Thanks for the input Nick. One thing that bothers me with wiping anything on my cars during the winter is a fear of swirling out the paint. In really cold weather touchless car washes are about the only option, but they never get the car totally clean. There is always a very fine layer of grit still on the paint. I tried waterless washes as a follow up a couple years ago, and besides being a streaky mess in freezing weather I also induced a healthy amount of marring. If I was to use the Detail Spray any thoughts on how to keep from running into the same marring issues? I was hoping a coating would require less maintenance than a traditional LSP during those seasons when it isn't really practical. In all fairness I already had some detail spray queued up in my basket for the next sale!

I do appreciate the discussion and hopefully I'll figure something out.Overall I still like the product. The areas about this odd "spray line" are holding up great and look great as well. I fully expect them to hold up better than an LSP will based on what I see now. As Fly07sti points out, the product is super easy to apply and worse case, I'll spend an extra 15/20 minutes this Spring prepping and re-applying the coating to these problem areas.

 

[Desertnate]

There has been a lot of discussion about this recently so I'm doing some testing on my own. One things for sure, just because the beading has fallen of doesn't mean the coating has necessarily failed. In my area they use both rock salt on the roads as well as a brine solution (magnesium chloride). It's believed that the liquid chemicals are sticking to the paint and may require some form of chemical decon to release it and bring back the hydrophobic properties. I would suggest IronX, TarX, and possibly Optimum MDR, as that is what Optimum is suggesting you use.

Regular weekly washing seems to be keeping it in check so far on my wife's car, which is wearing OCP+. I did go 2 weeks without washing it once and the lowers fell off a little bit, but still beading well. There is some light tar on it now too so that could be the reason for the trailing off of the beading. If you go several weeks without washing its seems this will definitely kill the beading....Zach has observed the same I believe.

I set up a test on my truck last weekend with 8 coatings and one durable wax to see which stays looking cleaner, which releases dirt the best, and to see if there is a difference on how the winter chemicals affect their beading.

Thanks for the feedback!

How are you washing the truck? Rinseless? Waterless? Local touchless place? I can't imagine you doing a two bucket this time of year in MN!