Detailers at Body Shops

h8dirtycars

h8dirtycars

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So my son's 2013 Dodge Dart had to have the paint repaired on the hood. Instead of repairing, they ordered a new hood, painted and replaced it. Yes it was warrantied. The dealer has a body shop on premises.
Anyway, I picked it up yesterday, and it was parked directly in the sunlight. The paint job was done nicely, black with no metallic. But right there in the sunlight, there were swirls on a brand new part that had just been painted!
Now, if I hadn't started here on AGO, I probably wouldn't have thought anything of it. But the knowledge from just reading the threads is invaluable.
Now, I know those who are reading this are probably going to wonder if I brought it up to the body shop manager. No, I did not, because I'm going to buy a DA polisher anyway and do the whole car. Another reason I didn't is because they probably don't have a detailer there and if they didn't have the attention to detail to see the swirls in the first place, why would I waste my time on something that they could have made worse? The swirls were probably instilled when they cleaned it after the paint and clear. And I know I'll get a survey via email soon, and will definitely bring it up there.
I guess the point of this post is, to make a short story long, and I'm assuming this, shouldn't body repairers know about this stuff? Maybe. I guess it depends on how much pride they have in their work.
Just a story to share.
 
Most volume body shops, like at a dealership, dont have knowledgeable detailers. The swirls were probably from the wetsanding or final buffing via a rotary from a technician who just does not know better. Swirls are probably not even a defect in their eyes (since most cars are covered in them anyway). Ive polished a few cars for a body shop. They generally do not polish, they just put a glaze on and call it a day. They really do not know better.

Mike has commented on the forum many times on how he used to train body shops on polishing paint as they had no clue.
 
I figured it was probably something to that effect.
Thanks.
 
Unfortunately body shops don't have the time, nor do they get paid enough, to polish every single panel to perfection. I think the standard insurance allowance for de-nibbing, texture matching and "buffing" is like 20 mins per panel or something crazy like that. I've also heard that claims adjusters will regularly throw a fit for body shops wanting to add polishing to the invoice... shops really have to fight for every dime now-a-days just to make a proper OEM spec repair. It's ridiculous. Also, polishing fresh paint to perfection is sometimes very difficult because of how soft the paint is.

Doing it yourself, or paying for a professional detailer whom you trust to correct the finish, is definitely your best solution to get the car looking flawless.
 
Yes, I guess there's more to it than an individual worker not having pride in his or her work. A lot of variables to take into account.
Hopefully, learning enough here to correct it. The car needs a start to finish paint detail anyway.
 
I manage a collision shop at a dealership, and if it were up to me I would make it mandatory to compound and polish paint the correct way with the correct tools.

I actually managed to get a 21mm throw random orbit polisher for the shop, and I trained and showed the technicians how to use it properly. But alas, no matter what I try they are scared of the change and don't want anything to do with the machine and go back to there old habits with a rotary with a dirty pad (yes-i even purchased a grit guard pad washer for the shop and they don't want anything to do with that either).

Most collision technicians, whether they are paid flat-rate or hourly, are just there to get the minimum amount of repair required done to get the vehicle out the door per the estimate and to get jobs cycled through production as fast as they can. They just do not have that OCD mentality like most of us geekers! This is the reason why I moved my way off the shop floor and behind a desk: I was losing my passion for my craft, because I was not allowed to put my passion into my craft.

The other problem that plagues the insurance collision industry is the insurance companies themselves: as Nicholas stated above, we just do not get paid anywhere near enough and we are bound by their rules for many different reasons. At the most, insurance companies in my neck of the woods will pay .2-.3 hrs of labor for de-nib and polish per panel painted-that is 12-18 minutes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At our dealership we sell Audi and Porsche. There have been a couple of occasions where I pulled myself out of the office and on to the shop floor to do the work myself when it came time to wet sand/compound/polish to keep specific customers happy and deliver them an as new or better than new finish. I spent numerous hours breaking my back for no reward, all because I failed to read the customers properly, and I also failed to properly explain how insurance claims work and and what the insurance companies actually pay for in terms of end results.
 
h8dirtycars said:
Yes, I guess there's more to it than an individual worker not having pride in his or her work. A lot of variables to take into account.
Hopefully, learning enough here to correct it. The car needs a start to finish paint detail anyway.
Click to expand...

Don't forget you got to wait about 90 days for the paint to cure I think
 
You can start compounding and polishing within a day of the paint being sprayed, it is for the application of waxes and sealants that you need to wait 30-90 days depending on the paint manufacturers specifications.
 
h8dirtycars said:
So my son's 2013 Dodge Dart had to have the paint repaired on the hood. Instead of repairing, they ordered a new hood, painted and replaced it. Yes it was warrantied. The dealer has a body shop on premises.

Anyway, I picked it up yesterday, and it was parked directly in the sunlight. The paint job was done nicely, black with no metallic.

But right there in the sunlight, there were swirls on a brand new part that had just been painted!
Click to expand...


Yep... that's the norm for body shops. Sad but true. Most shops - all they know is rotary buffer and wool pad. If you're lucky, some of the may have a foam pad. Chances are very good there will still be swirls even with a foam pad as this industry doesn't work as clean as the knowledgeable detailing industry. By this I mean using more than one pad to buff out a car, (that's working clean), and cleaning your pad often as you work around the car.


Now be warned....


You cannot take it back to them to have it done over with the idea they will get it right the second time.

They won't.

If a shop cannot do it right the first time they simply don't have the knowledge or the right equipment, pads, products to do it right the second time.

Just ask yourselves this question in the context of taking a car back to a body shop, dealership or detail shop that did hack work the first time,


What's changed?

As long as the answer is nothing, then don't take it back as all they will do is repeat the same thing they did the first time only add an extra thick layer of glaze to hide the swirls they inflict.



h8dirtycars said:
Now, if I hadn't started here on AGO, I probably wouldn't have thought anything of it. But the knowledge from just reading the threads is invaluable.
Click to expand...

That's our goal, to help out via education. But - a person has to read...



h8dirtycars said:
Just a story to share.
Click to expand...


Thanks for sharing. Sad thing is... most people that find and read this thread will do so AFTER something similar happens to them.

And the cycle repeats...



Jaretr1 said:
Most volume body shops, like at a dealership, dont have knowledgeable detailers.

The swirls were probably from the wetsanding or final buffing via a rotary from a technician who just does not know better. Swirls are probably not even a defect in their eyes (since most cars are covered in them anyway).

Ive polished a few cars for a body shop. They generally do not polish, they just put a glaze on and call it a day. They really do not know better.
Click to expand...

Sad but true, thanks for chiming in with the above.


Jaretr1 said:
Mike has commented on the forum many times on how he used to train body shops on polishing paint as they had no clue.
Click to expand...


Me and all the other Trainers at Meguiar's called on body shops, detail shops and dealerships and tried to train them. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. I actually had pretty good luck but back then we did NOT have all the cool,

Tools
Pads
Products

So back then the problem was the technology wasn't available. Today there's no excuse.


:dunno:
 
Mike Phillips said:
Now be warned....


You cannot take it back to them to have it done over with the idea they will get it right the second time.

They won't.

If a shop cannot do it right the first time they simply don't have the knowledge or the right equipment, pads, products to do it right the second time.
Click to expand...

Yep. That's why I said I wasn't even going to make them try and fix it. They'd probably make it worse. Just going to wait for the next credit card cycle and buy the Meguiars MT300, and Griots 3 inch Random Orbital, along with Nanoskin, Sonax fallout and whatever pads and polishes I'll need. Which I don't know exactly what that is yet, so I'll keep reading.......
 
It really depends on the body shop. Volume shops may rush through a job while smaller business seem to take their time.
 
h8dirtycars said:
Yep. That's why I said I wasn't even going to make them try and fix it. They'd probably make it worse. Just going to wait for the next credit card cycle and buy the Meguiars MT300, and Griots 3 inch Random Orbital, along with Nanoskin, Sonax fallout and whatever pads and polishes I'll need. Which I don't know exactly what that is yet, so I'll keep reading.......
Click to expand...

Just curious, you mentioned Griots 3 inch orbital. You doing the whole car with a 3"?
 
WeekendDIY said:
Just curious, you mentioned Griots 3 inch orbital. You doing the whole car with a 3"?
Click to expand...

No. I want to do the gloss black pillar trim, the back deck below the rear window, and what I guess you would call the back ledge leading into the inside of the rear of the car. It's a Lincoln MKX. And I emailed Griots, the 3 inch orbital now accepts 2 inch backing plates. I plan on getting the Megs MT300 for the main parts of the car.
 
h8dirtycars said:
No. I want to do the gloss black pillar trim, the back deck below the rear window, and what I guess you would call the back ledge leading into the inside of the rear of the car. It's a Lincoln MKX. And I emailed Griots, the 3 inch orbital now accepts 2 inch backing plates. I plan on getting the Megs MT300 for the main parts of the car.
Click to expand...

Ha...OK. I was thinking it's going to take this guy forever with a 3".

Good luck with the project.
 
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