Wondering how worried to be about spidering on a used pre-detailed black Lexus I'm looking at buying

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GMac

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For starters, I am a complete "noob" when it comes to auto detailing.

I'm looking at a black Lexus ES350 at a Lexus dealership, as well as another virtually identical one from a major used auto retailer.

The one from the Lexus has some advantages (Lexus certified, one upgrade feature, slightly lower price, slightly higher mileage), but I'm concerned about the state of its detailing. I went to see it before they completed the detailing (they still haven't finished), and it had some definite spidering on the body, as well as the telltale signs of a buffer the likes of which I have never seen, not too dissimilar to the one in this post:


The story of 3 H's - Horrendous, Horror Story and Hack Detailers...


The salesman at the dealership assures me that the clear coat is not damaged, and they will be able to buff it all out like new, but I'm not so certain -- or at least I'm concerned that it might look good initially, but I'll wish I had bought a different car within a couple years.

The essence of this question is this: Is this something that represents permanent "damage" for which I'll have to periodically have to maintain in a special way to fight back the spiders, or am I losing sleep over nothing?



:)
 
Is a professional detailer in your area you can get to take a inspection of this Lexus?

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I live in a different city from where the vehicle is... the vehicle is 74 miles from my house. I'm not sure where I'd start with that... how to find a good/trusted professional detailer in San Antonio, TX to go look at the vehicle?
 
GMac said:
I live in a different city from where the vehicle is... the vehicle is 74 miles from my house. I'm not sure where I'd start with that... how to find a good/trusted professional detailer in San Antonio, TX to go look at the vehicle?
Click to expand...
If you find one, be sure he has a paint gauge.
 
The day you drive it off the lot all those problems with the paint become yours. We have a term around here, "DISO" Dealer Installed Swirl Option.

Their detail shop most likely doesn't have the properly trained personnel on staff to actually correct the paint.
 
If it were me I would step away from this purchase. Just too many risks for not that much benefits.


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Isn't this normal production detailing:

https://www.autogeekonline.net/foru...s-horrendous-horror-story-hack-detailers.html

Friend just got his fender repaired while they did a good job on the repair, the included *free* wetsand compound polishing the whole care came for free and made the car look like the above.

ES350s are easy finds. I would keep options open if your worried about the condition on this one. Regarding spidering every car normally has it.
 
If the car still has paint issues when they are done detailing it, you could negotiate the price down and have a professional detailer have a look at it before you buy. Spiderweb scratches in the paint is very normal, almost all cars have them unless properly maintained (which very few people do). As or holograms, those are shallow scratches and a detailer should have no problem removing them although it can be a little expensive to do requiring both a compound and a polish. It would not stop me from buying the car if everything else is great but I would negotiate the price down from having to pay to have it professionally detailed. How much it will cost varies greatly from one city to the next, but something around 300-500$ would be in the average I would say.

Holograms are common when it comes to dealerships, they want to buff the car but don't have people with the right training do to it. Using a rotary polisher is really fast but if used incorrectly will leave those scratch patterns in the paint. I don't know why they all stick to that instead of getting a good DA polisher and spending a little more time to do it correctly.
 
Is it possible that they could make the car look good, where the buffing/spidering is not visible for a period of time but it's not done "right", or will it always be visible and obvious when they've screwed it up? I guess I'm just a little concerned about being misled into thinking all is well, when that is not the case.
 
When you go, take a flashlight to spot the defects or have them pull it out into the sunlight. If you still see defects, work for a better price, and then use that saved money to have a pro detailer in your area fix it. I've not seen many cars today get "buffed through" the clear coat even from bad hack jobs so I'd say your fairly safe I'm the aspect that it can be brought back to a respectable condition

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What makes me angry is ...Oh I assure you we can fix that in our detailing department....which caused the holograming in the first place. Look for a reputable detailer in the area and haggle the price down of the lexus. Then take it to the detailer to do work. Never ever trust the lot guys to do detail work
 
Bill1234 said:
What makes me angry is ...Oh I assure you we can fix that in our detailing department....which caused the holograming in the first place. Look for a reputable detailer in the area and haggle the price down of the lexus. Then take it to the detailer to do work. Never ever trust the lot guys to do detail work
Click to expand...

^^ this. Make the horrendous finish your sticking point, "I would buy the car, but the paint ..." then tell then there's no way you'd let them "try" to fix it when they are the ones who messed it up in the first place.
 
The spidering or swirl marks should be able to be compounded and polished out fairly easily. Hopefully you still have enough clear coat left to play with. Like others have said try to find an outside detailer to work on your car.

The hard part after you get the car detailed is keeping the paint swirl free. Black Lexus paint is known to be on the softer side. So I suspect no matter how carefully you wash your car light swirl marks will appear. Of course these swirls won't be as bad as the current condition of the paint.

Black paint is a full time job all by itself and can drive a guy into madness! Ask me how I know! :)

But it also looks darn good when it's clean. So if you can commit to learning about proper washing and drying techniques, and can live with a few light swirls here and there I say go for it. Otherwise you might want to consider a different color.


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GMac said:
For starters, I am a complete "noob" when it comes to auto detailing.

I'm looking at a black Lexus ES350 at a Lexus dealership, as well as another virtually identical one from a major used auto retailer.

The one from the Lexus has some advantages (Lexus certified, one upgrade feature, slightly lower price, slightly higher mileage), but I'm concerned about the state of its detailing.

I went to see it before they completed the detailing (they still haven't finished), and it had some definite spidering on the body, as well as the telltale signs of a buffer the likes of which I have never seen, not too dissimilar to the one in this post:


The story of 3 H's - Horrendous, Horror Story and Hack Detailers...


The salesman at the dealership assures me that the clear coat is not damaged, and they will be able to buff it all out like new, but I'm not so certain -- or at least I'm concerned that it might look good initially, but I'll wish I had bought a different car within a couple years.

The essence of this question is this: Is this something that represents permanent "damage" for which I'll have to periodically have to maintain in a special way to fight back the spiders, or am I losing sleep over nothing?



:)
Click to expand...


For all reading this thread, I wrote the article referenced above and here's a picture from the article, the swirls in the paint are called HOLOGRAMS are they are put into the paint by a rotary buffer.

Horrendous004.jpg


Horrendous005.jpg




Dealerships are known for doing hack work like you see above. It's the norm for most dealerships. Sure there are a few across this country that have good detailers and some of them actually hang out on this forum, but most have untrained staff and the dealership provides subpar product and rotary buffers.

The article I wrote actually describes the problem in detail.

The story of 3 H's - Horrendous, Horror Story and Hack Detailers...



:)
 
GMac said:
Is it possible that they could make the car look good, where the buffing/spidering is not visible for a period of time but it's not done "right", or will it always be visible and obvious when they've screwed it up?
Click to expand...

Yes.

If they are cunning, they can swirl out the car with a rotary buffer and then apply enough wax or glaze over the swirls so when you look at the paint it looks good. You wash the car a few times and the swirl show up.



GMac said:
I guess I'm just a little concerned about being misled into thinking all is well, when that is not the case.
Click to expand...

Out of all the articles I've written in my life, I share the below the most. Click the link, look at the pictures and then put a post-it note between your fingers.


Clearcoats are thin by Mike Phillips


Here's the deal. When a hack detailer puts swirls and scratches into the paint these are voids in the paint or missing paint.

In order to remove the appearance of the voids or the swirls and scratches another person must re-compound or re-polish the paint and do it right the second time. Both the first time and the second time buffing the paitn removes paint and you don't have much to start with.


I'd ask them to physically show you the tool they are using to buff the paint. Get the name of the products too.


:)
 
Mike Phillips said:
Also from experience....


If a shop can't do it right the first time, they can't do it right the second time.

Ask yourself...


What's changed?


The answer is nothing except maybe more wax or glaze the second time.


:)
Click to expand...
Yea, I hear this all the time "I'll take it back for them to fix it".. why to mess it up more? Like Mike said, what changed?

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99.9% of used cars (<- I have counted) will have some combination of swirl marks, holograms, scratches, dings, dents. It is nearly impossible to find a perfect vehicle.

Based on your description of having spider webbing (swirls) and holograms, I would not be concerned at all with buying the car. This is what I consider to be VERY normal wear & tear on a vehicle. As long as there are no burns (where the rotary buffer burned through the paint), major etchings (from bugs, birds, or hard water), clear signs of repair/repaint (mismatched texture, fisheyes, solvent pop, mismatched color, overspray, etc), or other types of more permanent damage, the car is likely just fine.

You will be able to learn how to restore the clear coat on your own, or there will likely be a reputable detailer in your area that someone can refer you to to take care of the defects you have mentioned.

If you do a google search for "Buying a Car? Consult with a Detailer & Identify Potential Issues" you will find an article I have written which might be beneficial for you.
 
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