Help With Black Paint Final Polish

[The Guz]

In the photo you posted is that before photo with UC being used on a microfiber cutting pad?

 

[fightnews]

Thank you! I will try not priming.

For pads: LC Microfiber polishing pad, LC foam Hydro Tech orange and also tried blue, and the yellow Meguiar's polish pad that comes with their drill DA adapter for polish (had a new one from years ago, I'm not using that adapter).

Hopefully not priming will work.

That could be part of the problem, you need real foam finishing pads

 

[fightnews]

I am watching this tread.

I thought the Challenger's paint would be in the middle between hard and soft paint.

From what you're describing, it sounds as if paint is soft. Soft paints are difficult to finish out to a flawless finish.
Your DA should be ok. It's all in the abrasives and pads.

If it was me coming from a Rupes point of view---I would move to a little "harder" pad (yellow Rupes pad) and use the yellow keramik polish (fine polish.) You could
actually feel the grit between your fingers!

Guess the concept is a little more firm and harder pad, less polish on pad (not primed) and a bit more abrasives in the polish. Fine polish is more abrasive than the ultra fine.

If you figure this out---please do tell!!!! Soft paints freak me out!

Tom

Why would he want more abrasives? He's trying to finish out from my understanding? wouldnt he want less abrasive?

 

[fightnews]

Tried a LC HydroTech orange pad un primed with 3 pea size dots of Meguiar's ultimate polish. It did seem to do a better job, but the lines are still there.

I was wondering about the hard/soft paint issue. Seems to be varying opinions about Dodge Challenger paint. I've seen it described as hard and soft. I have heard that using a harder pad on softer paint is the way to go. I don't have a Rupes yellow but I do have a LC Hydro blue. I'll try that un primed and see what happens.

I wouldn't really be so concerned about "perfection," but I'm going to put on Gyeon Mohs so I'd like it as good as possible.

I would try the red pad with a finishing polish just use less pressure. lighten up after 2-3 passes. I dont know why a harder pad with less polish would work. it sounds like that would make it worse. You will be dry buffing with a hard pad i dont see how that would help?

You should at least spray the pad with some type of lubrication if you aren't going to prime it. I'm not an expert this is just my opnion

 

[fightnews]

See post 8 and 9 of Mike's article for other suggestions.

Since you are going to coat, then no because cleaner waxes in general fills in the voids caused by marring. I am not sure about sonax tho...
I'll let other chime in...

Tom

just to add to this ultimate polish has a lot of oils and fillers in it. You have to use something after ultimate compound in my opinion. You need to go softer not harder to get rid of that micro marring.

 

[TMQ]

See Rupes chart below. In general you start out with blue-compound then finish off with white-ultra polish. And the top it with whatever you like.

Notice chart for soft paint. They do not recommend white (ultra fine) but go with yellow (fine polish.) You can feel the abrasives between you fingers more so with the yellow than the white.

Also--yellow pads and the UHS pads are harder or more firm than the white (finishing pads.)

The Rupes chart:
https://www.autogeekonline.net/foru...rupes-pad-compound-recommendation-charts.html

Tom

 

[TMQ]

Some back ground information on my experience with soft paint.

I found this chart AFTER completing a 17 hour ordeal with my black Lexus. The car has very soft paint.
I did everything the opposite of what was recommended on chart!
I used blue/blue when should've used UHS.
I used the white/white when I should have used the yellow/yellow.

The damn process fought me the whole way!
I couldn't understand why.
At the end car looks gorgeous! Has a jeweled look to it butttttt if seen at certain angle in right light---ghost marring about 6 inches from paint. You can try to touch it but its in thin air! To everyone---car is perfect but to me, I know it has serious marring in paint.

I wished I had that chart before hand! Very tough lesson to take after a 17 hour experience!
And yes--I did a test spot!

That is why I am interested in this thread. Hope the experienced chaps can chime in on different approaches to finishing out on soft paint.

Tom

 

[BMack]

I would advise following the manufacturer of the coating application and prep instructions.

Gyeon doesn't get too specific about how to compound and polish before the Mohs coating. I figured that using their compound and polish would be best. Compound works fine, but the polish leaves the same marring on the black paint.

 

[BMack]

In the photo you posted is that before photo with UC being used on a microfiber cutting pad?

No, the before photo is before compounding. I can post an after UC if that would help. The finish is typical DA swirls.

 

[BMack]

New microfiber towels might need a good washing before use.

What kind of pressure are you using with the tangerine Hydro?

How many passes? Maybe try just doing one pass, wipe off residue, and inspect. If that isn't satisfactory, try two passes, so on and so forth.

With the tangerine Hydrotech I actually enjoy priming those when using Meguiar's liquids. Once primed, I'll add anywhere from one to three dots of product, depending on the size of the panel I'm buffing. I also have the PC set to as low as speed as possible that still gives me backing plate rotation. My pressure is fairly light as well. My goal is to "burnish" the paint.

Your polisher is fine. It will do the job.

Thanks, I'm going to wash the towels I'm using, which are Gold Plush from AG. Other than some lint, I don't think the towels are causing the marring, however.

I've been doing several overlapping criss-cross passes with varying pressure and speeds. I'll try doing just one pass and so on as you've suggested. Might wait to get a new polish before trying that.

 

[BMack]

just to add to this ultimate polish has a lot of oils and fillers in it. You have to use something after ultimate compound in my opinion. You need to go softer not harder to get rid of that micro marring.

Definitely not an expert here either. I have seen some videos where a harder pad and finish polish is recommended for soft paint. Counter intuitive, but apparently it works. Going to give it a try.

 

[BMack]

See Rupes chart below. In general you start out with blue-compound then finish off with white-ultra polish. And the top it with whatever you like.

Notice chart for soft paint. They do not recommend white (ultra fine) but go with yellow (fine polish.) You can feel the abrasives between you fingers more so with the yellow than the white.

Also--yellow pads and the UHS pads are harder or more firm than the white (finishing pads.)

The Rupes chart:
https://www.autogeekonline.net/foru...rupes-pad-compound-recommendation-charts.html

Tom

Great info. After doing some more research I found another pro recommendation to use Rupes yellow pads with Sonax Perfect Finish. Holding on my order until tomorrow to see if there are other suggestions. Some other recommendations for Menzerna 3500 too. I would try all three (including Rupes Kermik) but now we're getting pricey.

 

[dlc95]

Thanks, I'm going to wash the towels I'm using, which are Gold Plush from AG. Other than some lint, I don't think the towels are causing the marring, however.

I've been doing several overlapping criss-cross passes with varying pressure and speeds. I'll try doing just one pass and so on as you've suggested. Might wait to get a new polish before trying that.

With a non-diminishing abrasive Polish, like M205/Ultimate Polish, more passes can work against you. The abrasives will continue to abrade the paint as you make your passes. These abraded particles are larger than the actual abrasive grains in the polish, and can have a negative effect on the paint because of this.

Sometimes I only need on or two light passes with M205/Ultimate Polish to accomplish the task.

You might also want to try applying a little bit "more than normal" amount of polish on the pad. The lubricant in the polish gives the abrasives, and abraded paint somewhere to retreat, in effect, buffering the paint. I would definitely prime the face of the pad with product, and add three dots of working product on a Lake Country Hydrotech Tangerine polishing pad. That pad, and M205/Ultimate Polish have given me some of the clearest, most dramatic gloss of just about any paint polishing set up I've tried. I use light, firm pressure, and enough speed to keep the pad rotating. Usually 4, or 4.5 on the PC 7424.

The Tangerine Hydrotech pad is also a lot harder than typical polishing pads. It's closed cell foam construction keeps the liquid on the surface of the pad, and paint. Great for finishing IME.

 

[BMack]

With a non-diminishing abrasive Polish, like M205/Ultimate Polish, more passes can work against you. The abrasives will continue to abrade the paint as you make your passes. These abraded particles are larger than the actual abrasive grains in the polish, and can have a negative effect on the paint because of this.

Sometimes I only need on or two light passes with M205/Ultimate Polish to accomplish the task.

You might also want to try applying a little bit "more than normal" amount of polish on the pad. The lubricant in the polish gives the abrasives, and abraded paint somewhere to retreat, in effect, buffering the paint. I would definitely prime the face of the pad with product, and add three dots of working product on a Lake Country Hydrotech Tangerine polishing pad. That pad, and M205/Ultimate Polish have given me some of the clearest, most dramatic gloss of just about any paint polishing set up I've tried. I use light, firm pressure, and enough speed to keep the pad rotating. Usually 4, or 4.5 on the PC 7424.

The Tangerine Hydrotech pad is also a lot harder than typical polishing pads. It's closed cell foam construction keeps the liquid on the surface of the pad, and paint. Great for finishing IME.

I'm not having any luck with the Ultimate Polish and the tangerine pad. I've tried priming and not priming, less and more product, varying speeds, pressure and passes. Are you getting these results on soft black paint with that combo?

I just put an order in for Sonax Perfect Finish and a Rupes yellow pad.

 

[The Guz]

No, the before photo is before compounding. I can post an after UC if that would help. The finish is typical DA swirls.

It would be more for curiosity for me to see how it looks after UC. It could be that the paint is on the hard side as well and UC is not potent enough.

 

[dlc95]

I'm not having any luck with the Ultimate Polish and the tangerine pad. I've tried priming and not priming, less and more product, varying speeds, pressure and passes. Are you getting these results on soft black paint with that combo?

I just put an order in for Sonax Perfect Finish and a Rupes yellow pad.

Soft black and red.

The other finishing pad I often use is a blue Buff and Shine. I did the same car the first time with the tangerine and blue using Menzerna PF2500 to remove the damage. My first test spot was M86 on a blue. It cleared the swirls, but marred the paint pretty good. The PF2500 and either pad was way better. The following year, I used M205 on the blue pad, and it came out great.

I usually keep Menzerna SF4000, or 3500 as it's now labeled - just in case there is a really finicky paint, like on my old red Monte Carlo.

 

[Toolhead]

Are you describing holograms? If so..maybe use flex which will compound them out and restart the process.

Did this issue not appear during your test spot?

 

[Toolhead]

Also.. r u sure this isnt a metallic paint you have or part of the paint effect. What is being seen?

 

[dlc95]

It would be more for curiosity for me to see how it looks after UC. It could be that the paint is on the hard side as well and UC is not potent enough.

Very true.

 

[TMQ]

That's the thing---are 2016 Dodge Challenger's paint hard or soft or in between?

Tom