Pinnacle Jeweling Wax

boomdone said:
Are we still talking about the Pinnacle Jeweling Wax? If so, it's selling for $45.99. Again, it does seem high but I looked around and the Mckees jeweling wax is $39.99 for a 16 oz. bottle (although it also comes in an 8 oz. bottle). Not sure what else to compare it with. Essence is also $40 for that size bottle but most others in that broad AIO category (Speed, D166, etc.) are much much cheaper.
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Well we should just be talking about PJW... but for the most part people got off topic because one post is attempting to compare the price of a finishing wax to a jeweling wax - which is not really an apples to apple comparison when you consider THE FACT that a Jeweling Wax is a more current name for a cleaner wax. In fact, now that I think about it... probably one of the key reasons for the marketing. One can make an argument that a JW could also be considered an AIO as well. So all one needs to do to see through my lenses, is to compare Pinnacle JW with competitive products like Klasse, Duragloss, McKees, Mothers, Meguiars, 3D, etc... and one can easily see how an extremely commoditized product category (cleaner waxes) is overpriced when you look at Pinnacle's attempt (McKee's too). If people buy it knowing what they are getting, then fine, but bear in mind these JW's are not extremely new technologies. I figure a 16oz bottle costs them maybe $3 to make.

I'm certainly open to reconsider my perspective by AGO and/or Pinnacle reps.
 
mwoolfso said:
Well we should just be talking about PJW... but for the most part people got off topic because one post is attempting to compare the price of a finishing wax to a jeweling wax - which is not really an apples to apple comparison when you consider THE FACT that a Jeweling Wax is a more current name for a cleaner wax. In fact, now that I think about it... probably one of the key reasons for the marketing. One can make an argument that a JW could also be considered an AIO as well. So all one needs to do to see through my lenses, is to compare Pinnacle JW with competitive products like Klasse, Duragloss, McKees, Mothers, Meguiars, 3D, etc... and one can easily see how an extremely commoditized product category (cleaner waxes) is overpriced when you look at Pinnacle's attempt (McKee's too). If people buy it knowing what they are getting, then fine, but bear in mind these JW's are not extremely new technologies. I figure a 16oz bottle costs them maybe $3 to make.

I'm certainly open to reconsider my perspective by AGO and/or Pinnacle reps.
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That is false, The abrasives in a jeweling wax are extra fine and have less cut. You could say they all fall into the general catageory of "cleaner waxes" but they are not the same product. There's 3 types of cleaner waxes as far as I know.

Chemical cleaner waxes that use no abrasives to clean

AIO cleaner wax that has abrasive's and or uses chemicals to clean and cut.

Jeweling wax that has ultra fine abrasive's. Similar to a jeweling polish. Think 3800 or rupes ultrafine.

You seem to be asserting that every product is the same?
 
Pinnacle products have always been a higher priced premium product line. They arent for everyone. However, all the Pinnacle products Ive used have always been excellent. Some people would also say $95 for a paste wax is ridiculous. Those same people have probably never used Souveran. So what it doesnt last. The sheer pleasure of applying it and the shine is what its all about. A jeweling wax is a product for someone that wants to take their show car as far as they can when it comes to gloss. I personally dont really have a use for this particular product. I have a bottle of Mckees Jeweling Wax ive yet to use. But for those that do, I am sure this pinnacle product will compare extremely favorably to any other similar.
 
Just to chime in...

A few years ago there was a forum member that "tried" to argue this,

AIO = non-abrasive cleaner/waxes

Cleaner/waxes = products with abrasives


That's all a bunch of non-sense. The letters AIO stand for All In One and this also describes a cleaner/wax.


You can call Meguiar's Cleaner/Wax and AIO if you want to even though the words on the bottle say cleaner/wax. They are different terms for the same thing. I can't even count how may times I've "tried" to explain this. My best guess is people are too lazy to type out the words cleaner/wax so they type out AIO, heck some don't even use capital letters. aio


A cleaner/wax or aio is a product that,

1: Cleans the surface - it can do this chemically or with abrasives or both.

2: Polishes to a high gloss

3: Leaves behind some form of protection ingredient be it a "wax" or something "synthetic" or fill-in-the-blank



Hope this topic is now as clear as mud.


:)
 
Then there's this....

I, yes little old me, coined the term


Jeweling Wax


Then I wrote an article for the term and the topic. The best explanation I can think of is the sentence where you see the word lumped in bold red text.


Jeweling Wax - Definition


New industry term
I'm not sure there are any laws or regulations in our industry that prevents anyone from coming up with a new term, if anyone else knows of any authority that regulates this type of thing feel free to share a link.

Thus I Mike Phillips on March 5th of 2016 hereby create a new term and a new category for products for using in the car detailing industry called,


Jeweling Wax


Definition: An ultra fine cutting polish and wax combination that when used with a soft foam finishing or jewelling foam pad will maximize paint gloss, shine, depth and clarity while leaving behind a layer of protection.​




Questions and Answers

Question: What's the difference between a jeweling wax and an AIO or cleaner/wax?

Answer: A jeweling wax is a category of products that offers the same high quality finishing ability famous to high quality fine cut or ultra fine cut polishes except that because it also contains protection ingredients, unlike a dedicated polish the surface is left both polished and protected.


Cleaner/waxes are normally and historically products used to undo damage like swirls, water spots, oxidation out of the paint on cars that have been neglected. They don't however tend to create super high gloss results like a jeweling wax.

On the flipside, because a jewelling wax offers very limited correction ability it cannot compete with or be compared to most cleaner/waxes on the market (also called AIO's), which offer more correction ability but don't and won't finish out like a true jeweling wax.


I love cleaner/waxes and use them when appropriate and even have a number of articles encouraging detailers to use cleaner/waxes when doing production detail work. I would not however consider the majority of cleaner/waxes I've used in my life to be the type of product I would use like a jewelling wax as they don't finish out as well as a true jewelling wax.

A high quality jeweling wax is too good to be lumped into the cleaner/wax category already populated with hundreds of cleaner/wax options ranging from the extreme spectrum of mediocre to very good.

A jeweling wax can be used in place of your last machine polishing step to refine the results of the previous correction steps and/or correction and polishing steps to maximize the gloss, clarity, depth and shine while also leaving the finish protected, something a dedicated polish will not do.


There's MORE info in the actual article including a thorough explanation of the terms cleaner/wax and aio


Jeweling Wax - Definition


Not all cleaner/waxes are jeweling waxes. It's easy to figure out but you need a little experience and some black car paint.



:)
 
I have 3 cars detailing projects coming up next week, for these I'll be using the new Pinnacle Jeweling Wax.


2013 Mercedes-Benz S550

200_2013_S550_001.JPG




2017 Bentley Sport

200_2017_Bentley_Speed_001.jpg




2014 Maserati GT Sport

200_2014_Maserati_001.JPG



All black in color, so I think the results will speak for themselves.



:)
 
To me it actually makes more sense that a "cleaner wax" would be non-abrasive and an "AIO" which cleans, polishes, and protects WOULD contain abrasives.

That said, I think that making these terms interchangeable is a good thing and reduces confusion.

Based on your definition of Jeweling Wax, I would think HD Speed could also be characterized as a jeweling wax?
 
If I'm gonna jewel I'm gonna use a polish
Only two available is P&S envy(expensive) and Americana.

As for AIO have yet to find anything better then Shine Supply Burnout.
 
•HD Speed:

-How could a Cleaner-Sealant
also be a Jeweling Wax?


Bob
 
mwoywod said:
To me it actually makes more sense that a "cleaner wax" would be non-abrasive and an "AIO" which cleans, polishes, and protects WOULD contain abrasives.
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Except for one thing.... since the car was invented, followed by car paint, followed by car polishes and waxes - there's never been any "Wax Police" or better yet, "Word Police" to govern and dictate what means what... it's too late in the game to change now... this is why you see company's call their sealants polishes and their polishes glazes.

:laughing:



mwoywod said:
That said, I think that making these terms interchangeable is a good thing and reduces confusion.
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That's how I use them in the real-world and in the cyber-world and in anything I write or any video. I try to remove the confusion but there's always enough other opinions out there to continue the confusion. I think after it's in a published book though there's a tick of credibility for one or the other directions. Anyone that disagrees of course can and should write a book.


mwoywod said:
Based on your definition of Jeweling Wax, I would think HD Speed could also be characterized as a jeweling wax?
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Yes. 3D HD Speed in my mind is more than a cleaner/wax due to the abrasive technology, it is a true jeweling wax.



:)
 
FUNX650 said:
•HD Speed:

-How could a Cleaner-Sealant
also be a Jeweling Wax?


Bob
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Because I use the term "wax" as a generic term for anyting that can and is used to seal the paint.


I completely understand that a lot of people get all anal retentive about the words wax and sealant but I'm not going to do a TON of extra typing for the anal retentive.

I did cover this 8 years ago, in 2010 with the VERY EXHAUSTIVE article where I did my best to explain the difference between a wax or sealant that CLEANED and a wax or sealant that does NOT clean.


Posted to this forum on 02-03-2010, 02:26 PM

The Difference Between a Cleaner/Wax and a Finishing Wax



And here's just an excerpt where I did go full anal retentive for the anal retentive....


Mike Phillips said:
2- basic groups of car wax

Let me see if I can remove just a little bit of the confusion… There are two basic groups most car waxes and paint sealants fall into, these would be,

• Cleaner/waxes or Cleaner/Sealants
• Finishing waxes or Finishing Sealants


A cleaner/wax or cleaning/sealant would offer some level of cleaning ability using either chemical cleaning agents, solvents and/or some type of abrasives and often times a combination of all three. Cleaner/Waxes are also referred to as One-Step products or All-In-One products. Cleaner/waxes can be used to restore neglected paint to good to excellent condition depending upon how bad of condition the paint is in and the cleaning ability or strength of the cleaning agents in the cleaner/wax.

A finishing wax or finishing sealant would not contain any ingredients with the intended ability to clean or abrade the paint. Products in this category should only be used on paint in excellent or brand new condition or neglected paints that have been previously cleaned and polished and thus restored to new or excellent condition.

Besides dividing products into two groups by whether they have the ability to clean the paint or not, paint protection products are also divided into two other groups or categories and that's car waxes or paint sealants.





Car Wax
Contains some kind of naturally occurring waxy type substance, for example Carnauba wax.

Paint Sealant
Made from synthetic or all man-made ingredients.

​

So from the above, we can have,

Cleaner/Waxes
A product that cleans, polishes and protects and contains natural protection ingredients like Carnauba

Cleaner/Sealants
A product that cleans, polishes and protects and uses all synthetic protection ingredients

Finishing Waxes
A product that offers no cleaning ability with the focus on maximizing beauty with the protection based upon naturally occurring ingredients.

Finishing Sealants
A product that offers no cleaning ability with the focus on maximizing beauty with the protection based upon synthetic ingredients.

Hybrids
There's one more group into which waxes and sealant fall into and that would be the hybrid category. Hybrids contain a combination of both natural and synthetic ingredients.

If we use the loose definition above for car waxes and paint sealants, (For the wax group the primary protection ingredients are naturally occurring waxy substances and for the sealant group the primary protection ingredients are man-made or synthetic substances), then since hybrid products use a combination of both it would seem natural to group them and place them into their own category with both words, wax and sealant used to describe the category.



​
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So yeah.... for everyone reading this into the future, while I try to be VERY specific in everything I say or write, sometimes the amount of extra typing it requires just to appease and please the 1% of us that wants clear and distinct separation between a product that uses a waxy substance to protect the paint and a product that uses some form of man-made substance to protect the paint can suffer or - type up their own articles.


:)​
 
Mike Phillips said:
Because I use the term "wax" as a generic term for anyting that can and is used to seal the paint.
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I love the word wax too. If I had it my way I’d always say wax without stopping to think about it... However I do find myself thinking about what to call things when explaining to certain customers what exactly I’m going to do to their vehicles. My reason for it is what if they get to talking to someone they know or even another detailer and describe to them that I applied a “wax” to protect their daily driver. That other detailer could begin snickering about how I should have done better than protecting his vehicle with a measly “wax”

There’s alot people can find out on their own these days ya know. Average Joes can become quite informed on just about any subject if they research it enough. Or maybe I’m overthinking it. Either ways, I like “wax”

FUNX650 said:
•HD Speed:

-How could a Cleaner-Sealant
also be a Jeweling Wax?


Bob
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Weren’t you the guy who called Imperial Hand Glaze your “favorite polish” the other day? How can a glaze be a polish? Lol.
 
Eldorado2k said:
Weren’t you the guy who called Imperial Hand Glaze your “favorite polish” the other day? How can a glaze be a polish? Lol.
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Let's stop with this agitating others. Recently a number of your posts have been reported.

Remember the forum rules and actually a pretty good rule to live your life by...


Forum Rules

The second sentence in rule #4

If you can't say anything nice about someone, then don't say anything at all, this also includes talking to others in a demeaning manner.


:nomore:
 
Eldorado2k said:
My reason for it is what if they get to talking to someone they know or even another detailer and describe to them that I applied a “wax” to protect their daily driver. That other detailer could begin snickering about how I should have done better than protecting his vehicle with a measly “wax”
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eh, I think it would say more about the other 'detailer' if they derided you for using a 'wax' on a customer's car. On this site alone, there are a number of 'waxes' selling for over $100 a piece, several of those at $200 or more. You certainly don't see 'high end' sealants commanding that kind of price tag (maybe with 'hybrid' waxes). Now, you may not offer those types of high end waxes to your customers but I think it would be easy to have a discussion/education around 'waxes' and how they aren't all created equal.
 
boomdone said:
eh, I think it would say more about the other 'detailer' if they derided you for using a 'wax' on a customer's car.
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One of the criteria I use to determine what to seal a customer's car with is what do they want, not what does the world want.

Right now ceramic coatings are the rage, understandably. But for some people and for some cars, a wax and even a cleaner/wax is the right choice.


:)
 
boomdone said:
eh, I think it would say more about the other 'detailer' if they derided you for using a 'wax' on a customer's car. On this site alone, there are a number of 'waxes' selling for over $100 a piece, several of those at $200 or more. You certainly don't see 'high end' sealants commanding that kind of price tag (maybe with 'hybrid' waxes). Now, you may not offer those types of high end waxes to your customers but I think it would be easy to have a discussion/education around 'waxes' and how they aren't all created equal.
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I was thinking more along the lines of the growing number of coating snobs. [not anyone here] but you get people out there who get real excited about things...
 
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