Contaminants on ceramic coating

[Rsurfer]

Quote Originally Posted by Eldorado2k View Post

Reality proves the bottom portions are actually the Cleanest least contaminated parts of the car.

Not after a Cleveland Winter... brutal stuff, especially on freeways.

I agree with BudgetPlan1, even a light drizzle and the lower panels are much dirtier than the upper panels.

 

[Rsurfer]

Well, this one is a tough one, because for one it's hard to measure and compare most stuff related to this objectively. The problem is, that on ceramic coated surface the apparent level of contamination might be higher than on a regular one, even then if it is actually lower - and that's because how a ceramic coating enhances the appearance and behavior of the surface. Given a less glossy and less repellent and a more glossy and more repellent surface the one with a higher gloss and general higher level of repellency will make it easier to spot even tiny defects or spots of contaminants that still manage to settle on it, than the less perfect surface, which even though might harbor contaminants all over, it will do so in a more uniform manner, which will make any particular contaminant to stick out less off the "crowd", and because of the lower level of gloss and lower level of reflection will allow defects to hide amongst the many imperfections the surface has anyway.

The other thing is, that you can't really compare how sealants with very different durability will collect contaminants, because as soon as the sealant starts to degrade and to wear off, so will the contaminants that have settled on it, been embedded into it or bound to it. Even more so when every time when you're re-applying the product, which will result in loosely bound contaminants getting removed from the surface just by the re-application process of the sealant. So, even though such surfaces might collect more contaminants short-term, in the long term those contaminants will have less chance to accumulate, because of faster degradation of the underlying layer they're bound to, and because of more frequent reapplication of the sealant.

Because of that I'd say that even though generally contaminants might not stick to a ceramic coating as much as to a sealant or a wax, but because the former is more durable than the latter two, layers also thicker, and is not reapplied for a year or more, a ceramic coating will be collecting contaminants for a longer period of time, and thus possibly accumulate a higher amount of them in the end than a wax or a sealant. It will also make their presence more apparent because of the reasons laid out in the first paragraph above.

I think that might be the primary reason why manufacturers are recommending to regular "top up" ceramic coatings with some compatible sealant - which obviously you should do, if you have this concern or problem with your coating.

However, claying definitely shouldn't be the way to go, because it will also hurt the coating itself and cause it to degrade faster (if not remove it plain out), which is exactly what you want to avoid, don't you?

Just my two cents.

This is completely untrue.
If you have a sealant applied on the paint, and contaminants somehow begin to bond on the surface, it’s because they’ve penetrated through the sealants protection and bonded to the paint.

Contaminants don’t magically float away when the “layer” of sealant wears off, they’re stuck on the paint and re applying sealant only further locks them in underneath the layer you’re applying. That’s why it’s imperative to properly prep the paint before applying any form of protection.

No point in arguing with itsgn as he has a PhD in chemistry and a 10,000 sq. ft. lab that he does all his testing to back up his claims.

 

[ejaf]

Quote Originally Posted by Eldorado2k View Post

Reality proves the bottom portions are actually the Cleanest least contaminated parts of the car.






I agree with BudgetPlan1, even a light drizzle and the lower panels are much dirtier than the upper panels.

Understood, but road salt, junk kicking up, etc. doesn't seem to get "stuck" into the clear coat as much as the "fallout", at least for me. The stuff I'm talking about are the pieces of grit that only clays and a polish take out, not the stuff that can be taken off with something like 3M adhesive cleaner.

E

 

[Eldorado2k]

I agree with BudgetPlan1, even a light drizzle and the lower panels are much dirtier than the upper panels.

I’m talking about a freshly washed vehicle, prepped for claying.

There’s no arguing that the rocker panels get dirtier, but somehow very little of that daily grime seems to get embedded into the paint because whenever I clay rocker panels it pulls up nowhere near the amount of contaminants that I pull off the typical trunklid.

And when it comes to the wheels, there’s never any contaminants pulled off with the claybar, even though we’re lead to believe that the wheels should be the absolute worst area of the vehicle. If you’ve ever watched a youtube video of someone claying wheels, you’ll notice how they never show you the claybar after claying the face of the wheels, that’s because there’s never any contaminants on the claybar.

 

[Rmd]

I’m talking about a freshly washed vehicle, prepped for claying.

There’s no arguing that the rocker panels get dirtier, but somehow very little of that daily grime seems to get embedded into the paint because whenever I clay rocker panels it pulls up nowhere near the amount of contaminants that I pull off the typical trunklid.

And when it comes to the wheels, there’s never any contaminants pulled off with the claybar, even though we’re lead to believe that the wheels should be the absolute worst area of the vehicle. If you’ve ever watched a youtube video of someone claying wheels, you’ll notice how they never show you the claybar after claying the face of the wheels, that’s because there’s never any contaminants on the claybar.

Bear in mind though, that where we live we have no snow, no road salt, and rain only a few times a year, so not much in the way of road film either.

 

[Eldorado2k]

Bear in mind though, that where we live we have no snow, no road salt, and rain only a few times a year, so not much in the way of road film either.

True, I don’t know anything about snow or road salt.

Question for the guys who live in those areas: Does that greatly affect the amount of bonded contaminants you pick up on the claybar on the lower portions of a vehicle? Do those conditions result in a failed baggie test on the lower portions of a car? Stuff that can only be removed with clay?

 

[itsgn]

No point in arguing with itsgn as he has a PhD in chemistry and a 10,000 sq. ft. lab that he does all his testing to back up his claims.

There's definitely no point in "arguing" with someone if your only "argument" against what he said is that "he has a PhD in chemistry and a 10,000 sq. ft. lab". If you can't attack the argument presented, only the person behind it, then you actually have no argument. Period.

 

[itsgn]

Question for the guys who live in those areas: Does that greatly affect the amount of bonded contaminants you pick up on the claybar on the lower portions of a vehicle? Do those conditions result in a failed baggie test on the lower portions of a car? Stuff that can only be removed with clay?

In my experience, it all depends on how often the car is cleaned. If it's been neglected for years, you can pick up a lot of contaminants on all over the car. If it's been washed regularly and protected for the winter, then the portions possibly affected by road salt won't be noticeably worse either. Well at least not in a single season.

Salt will mostly cause corrosion only on the unpainted metal parts, but not really on the paint itself. Or only there where it can still settle for a longer time (despite the car being washed regularly), like right around and behind the perimeter/edge of plastic trims that are attached to painted areas. Plastic trims themselves might be also damaged by road salt heavily (mostly causing fading), but will not be affected much either as long as said parts have been treated with some repellent sealant/coating (like Meg's Ultimate Black, DLux, etc.)

The only thing that you can't avoid even with regular washes and with appropriate protection are tar and rubber chunks (tiny black dots or smears on the paint), which will still be accumulating on the lower panels right behind the fenders / wheel wells. But obviously those will also be present in areas where salt is not used on the roads - or possibly even more so there, because of the warmer climate making it easier for tar and rubber to melt to a point where it can be slung onto and stick to the paint.

 

[DetailZeus]

[...]

Here's what I do know however is there are all kinds of airborne contaminants and some are more sticky or more apt to bond to a surface than others. I detailed a car last night with LIGHT paint overspray and I could NOT remove it with detailing clay and this car had a ceramic paint coating on it.

I had to use a Nanoskin towel to remove the overspray and this scratched the paint which then forced me to compound the paint to remove the scratches.


After last night's experience I am now MORE THAN EVER - NOT a fan of multi-year anything. I think the BEST way to take care of your car's paint is to do SOMETHING to at least twice a year - minimum.

In fact, keeping the process MORE SIMPLE makes MORE SENSE to me than a more complicated process. But all of this depends upon the PERSON. Me? I like my car's paint to LOOK GOOD and not be contaminated. Some people don't think very deep about this and as long as the paint is protected, how it feels is secondary.


Here's a simple process that I'm going to implement to my own cars.

1. Wash
2. Clay
3. One-step cleaner/wax
4. SONAX Polymer Net Shield

Do the above twice a year and your car's paint will/should always look great.

[...]

This is a great post, thanks Mike. That was the Camaro right? Just think of all the opportunities those of us with daily drivers in big cities with four seasons have to pick up contamination. Like your way of thinking.

 

[MattPersman]

Mine gets contaminates down low. Limestone dust mixed with road salt, dirt and snow or rain. It’s quite a slurry if bonding. Good times.

Our neighborhood is new too so there is constant dirt and dust there too. The street sweeper comes by about once a week but still

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[Eldorado2k]

Mine gets contaminates down low. Limestone dust mixed with road salt, dirt and snow or rain. It’s quite a slurry if bonding. Good times.

Our neighborhood is new too so there is constant dirt and dust there too. The street sweeper comes by about once a week but still

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So you’re saying that doesn’t come clean when you wash the car?

 

[Finick]

So you’re saying that doesn’t come clean when you wash the car?

My lower portions of my car also become very contaminated after a winter. Especially one that’s particularly moist.

But I just attribute that to all that crap getting kicked up onto my car and just not being able to (or willing to) go out and regularly wash it. There’s weeks at a time when it’s disgusting out and the roads are covered in all kinds of disgustingness. Even once the snow is melted and it’s sunny out, I’m usually not willing to go out there and do a rinseless wash when it’s <15 degrees outside and the wind is whipping.

I actually use tarx and wipe down the lower portions of my car after the winter and nothing ever really comes off. Not even tar - which always surprises me. Even the inner lip of my wheel well is perfectly free of tar.

I really think it just comes down to location. Where you live you can basically live off waterless washing alone. This year in MD we got something like 65 inches of rain? We broke like nearly every rain fall record like 3 months ago. It was basically a tropical climate this summer. I didn’t even like doing rinselesss because of all the mud and debris that kept getting kicked up all over my car. So I washed it even less than I normally would, which means it probably wouldn’t even pass the baggie test now (just an assumption.)


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[boomdone]

My lower portions of my car also become very contaminated after a winter. Especially one that’s particularly moist.

But I just attribute that to all that crap getting kicked up onto my car and just not being able to (or willing to) go out and regularly wash it. There’s weeks at a time when it’s disgusting out and the roads are covered in all kinds of disgustingness. Even once the snow is melted and it’s sunny out, I’m usually not willing to go out there and do a rinseless wash when it’s <15 degrees outside and the wind is whipping.

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Yep same here. I've used a few coatings (currently mckees 37 v2) and that's always the case for me as well. You can get it 'clean' but it's still contaminated and has a film that builds over the course of a long winter. Tar X and a light clay help significantly. But even still theres gunk on the lower panels that comes off with a light polish when I do my spring cleaning.

 

[Eldorado2k]

My lower portions of my car also become very contaminated after a winter. Especially one that’s particularly moist.

But I just attribute that to all that crap getting kicked up onto my car and just not being able to (or willing to) go out and regularly wash it. There’s weeks at a time when it’s disgusting out and the roads are covered in all kinds of disgustingness. Even once the snow is melted and it’s sunny out, I’m usually not willing to go out there and do a rinseless wash when it’s <15 degrees outside and the wind is whipping.

I actually use tarx and wipe down the lower portions of my car after the winter and nothing ever really comes off. Not even tar - which always surprises me. Even the inner lip of my wheel well is perfectly free of tar.

I really think it just comes down to location. Where you live you can basically live off waterless washing alone. This year in MD we got something like 65 inches of rain? We broke like nearly every rain fall record like 3 months ago. It was basically a tropical climate this summer. I didn’t even like doing rinselesss because of all the mud and debris that kept getting kicked up all over my car. So I washed it even less than I normally would, which means it probably wouldn’t even pass the baggie test now (just an assumption.)


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Ok makes sense.