What is the point of a ceramic coating if you have to maintain it?

[Eldorado2k]

We are talking about the purpose of coating, if $3 made in china coating works for you, go ahead
but again if they works that well, then why any of pro detailers use it?

I mean there is mr fix 9H and 9h mr fix and they call each other "fake" products, with no data sheet available to public and etc.
but again, we are talking purpose of coating.

I’m talking about the underbody of a vehicle... Would you coat the underbody of a vehicle with Cquartz?

And I don’t really care about date sheets. I care about whether it works or not.

What makes those low cost ceramic coatings “fake”?

 

[Eldorado2k]

but again if they works that well, then why any of pro detailers use it?

You have no idea what most pro detailers are using and neither do most of their customers. You only know what people on facebook & youtube who make videos and posts are talking about.

 

[Rrthomas78]

I haven’t seen the reviews, but if they’re anything like some reviews of Kirkland microfibers, I can already smell the bias and fanboyism.

Some people just won’t believe things unless a famous person endorsed it + they’ve read other peoples comments about it + there’s a high price on it.

Kirkland's no good? Never used them I don't have a membership. Everyone seems to like them though

Sent from my LG-Q710AL using Autogeekonline mobile app

 

[SWETM]

What makes those low cost ceramic coatings “fake”?

Maybe not fake but with all products you have in coatings case the quality of the Sio2 product in it and mostly the amount in it. Don't think there is limit where you could call it a ceramic coating or not. So no industrie guidelines to follow. Some of those can work and some is just things that's not a ceramic coating in any way. So much more of the quality of the coating products. Take wax and sealants for an example. Is those all the same? Why buy a quality wax or sealant when they do the same.



And the rave about coatings vs other LSP maintance. You still are going to be maintain your finish on your car with any LSP you have on it. It's just a different approach between them to make them perform their best. Why do people use different sealants on top of each other. Why wax over a sealant. Why use a car soap with either wax or sealant or glossenhancers in them. You have a wax or sealant or both. Does those don't perform enough. You are seeing where I'm going with this. Any longlasting LSP need to be maintained to perform at it's best. Do you have to do it? No you can go with whatever you want. I can compare it to do this. You put down the work and apply a nice coat of Pinnacle Souverän. Then the next wash you use a low quality spray wax or QD that mute the looks and the water behavior of the applyied Souverän. Does that make any sense. The same you can ask you self if it was a coating you had and put on something that mute the looks and the water behavior or other properties that you value from a LSP. It don't makes sense either. But you can do it though.

When it comes to decon and the coating soaps like reset or g-wash or bathe. If you have put on a coating and put a lot of work into it. You would want it to last as long as possible before doing it again. Then it's going to be thought through maintance and carefully chosed products. To get the longest longevity from it. Is it necessary? No it's not you could leave it out in wild and do some washes to it accationly. But will it suit your expectations from a coating. Cause if you treated any LSP not so much your paint will not be looking it's best. So it's all about what you want and need and what suits your situation and environment you live in. That can steer you at a suitable LSP of choice. And there we have different opinions or it would only be offered one kind of LSP and even one product. But that would be boring for most but comfy for some.

Edit: But that would be boring for most here on a detailing forum but comfy for most people maybe LOL

 

[yakky]

I agree with the OP. I find the prep required for a coating and the maintenance required really makes the ROI questionable. Additionally the water spotting issues pose another challenge with some coatings. Something like FK1000P or IW845 provide awesome protection and minimal effort. Some contaminants come off easier with a coating others with a good sealant.

I'm hoping mother's CMX really bridges the gap.

 

[Eldorado2k]

Kirkland's no good? Never used them I don't have a membership. Everyone seems to like them though

Sent from my LG-Q710AL using Autogeekonline mobile app

Maybe I typed that wrong... What I meant was the biased opinion against those towels by many who just won’t allow themselves to believe they could be good for anything besides wheels and interior. Forensic comes to mind... He came up with some way out reason about how they “may” scratch your paint, but it seemed more like he was trying to convince himself that had to be the case because some people just feel like the only way a towel can be worthy is if it’s from North Korea and costs at least $3 each.

Maybe not fake but with all products you have in coatings case the quality of the Sio2 product in it and mostly the amount in it. Don't think there is limit where you could call it a ceramic coating or not. So no industrie guidelines to follow. Some of those can work and some is just things that's not a ceramic coating in any way. So much more of the quality of the coating products. Take wax and sealants for an example. Is those all the same? Why buy a quality wax or sealant when they do the same.

I’m of the opinion that Sio2 is sort of like the ingredient that makes all iron removers have alot in common. [which is why my go to product is DUB]
I’ve also heard Scott from Dallas mention how Sio2 is incredibly cheap for the manufacturers to bottle and how they’re profiting hand over fist with any product said to contain it.

I consider wax/sealants to be more of a special distinctive brew with less in common than products such as those other 2. I’m not saying it’s complete fact, but that’s my gut feeling based on the information that’s out there.

 

[Eldorado2k]

Why use a car soap with either wax or sealant or glossenhancers in them. You have a wax or sealant or both. Does those don't perform enough.

As far as car shampoos go... I didn’t exactly mean that I would want to use a soap with wax or gloss enhancing conditioners, nor was I even really speaking for myself but more so speaking for Average Joes who don’t look past what’s available to them OTC @Wally World or the auto parts store, and when you’re limited to those choices it’s kind of hard to find a soap that doesn’t contain somekind of wax or conditioners in it, yet you can’t really fault them because afterall it is “proper” car wash soap in their eyes as opposed to Dawn dish soap.

However even I get a bit tired of following such strict rules. Just a few days ago I used Meguiars Gold Class to wash my car. Why? Because I missed using it. And guess what? I applied a fresh coat of sealant right afterwards and didn’t worry about no stinkin “prep” or anything... Back in the days lsp’s worked just fine before the days of all this tedious prep. I used Gold Class for over 15yrs. and didn’t seem to have a problem with lsp’s not working. It felt good do not care for the 1st time in a long time.

Btw it’s raining as I type this. I walked outside and took these pics just now... My lsp is beading fine. Would I call it perfect? Honestly no, I’d say it’s between 87-90% what it normally is... So there is a minor difference, but it’s still bonded fine enough.

 

[choijw2]

I don't even understand how $3 coating popped up and now talking about under carriage coating ....

and I was saying there are Mr fix 9H and 9H mr fix two brands on ebays and they call each others fake.... not saying they are fake....

You have no idea what most pro detailers are using and neither do most of their customers. You only know what people on facebook & youtube who make videos and posts are talking about.

Are you clmibing that pros claim something and uses different products behind customers back?


urgg this conversation is werid af. im out of here.

 

[BudgetPlan1]

I agree with the OP. I find the prep required for a coating and the maintenance required really makes the ROI questionable. Additionally the water spotting issues pose another challenge with some coatings. Something like FK1000P or IW845 provide awesome protection and minimal effort. Some contaminants come off easier with a coating others with a good sealant.

I'm hoping mother's CMX really bridges the gap.

I dunno, I guess I dont really get where the 'extra' maint. required w a coating comes from. Unless I'm messing around with something just for fun, maintaining a coated vehicle takes me far less time than when I used a sealant.

Sealant:
1. Wash using a bottle of your favorite shampoo
2. Dry
3. Apply Detail Spray/Spray Wax

Coating:
1. Wash using a bottle of your favorite shampoo
2. Dry
3. Apply SiO2 Topper monthly

As for the yearly Spring Refresh:

Sealant:
1. Wash
2. Clay
3. Apply sealant

Coating:
1. Decon (hose down with iron/tar remover)
2. Wash
3. Apply SiO2 Topper

With a sealant, if car got rained on, it needed washing. With coating, if car gets rained on, it *may* need washing but not always; sometimes if car is dusty I'll just leave it outside if heavy rain is forecast overnight and let Mother Nature give it a sufficient rinse.

With sealant, if wife brings car home with a large bird bomb on the hood at 10pm, address it immediately. With coating, I'll get to it tomorrow or hope for rain to rinse it off overnight.

While water spotting is often mentioned with coatings, I've never had an issue with it. In the sealant days, water spots on the hood I didn't get to quickly enough etched the paint (although that coulda been some rare freakish devil-rain incident that woulda damaged a coating as well)

And when you consider wheels & tires, coatings are a real timesaver. Used to take an hour alone to wash wheels, apply tire dressing (which would maybe last through a rainstorm or 2). With coated wheels and tires, spray down and dry.

Granted the initial prep and application can take somewhat longer with a coating but I'm only doing that every 2 years as opposed to every Spring when using a sealant.

Coatings certainly ain't perfect, they have some concessions one has to accept but overall, keeping a black car presentable is far less work for me than when I was using a sealant. Since going with a coating I feel that our cars have better protection and require far less physical effort from me to keep them looking good enough to me that I still turn around and look at em after parking them somewhere.

Everyone is different though, gotta do what works for you.

 

[Eldorado2k]

I don't even understand how $3 coating popped up and now talking about under carriage coating ....

and I was saying there are Mr fix 9H and 9H mr fix two brands on ebays and they call each others fake.... not saying they are fake....

urgg this conversation is werid af.

You really need an answer to why I brought up under carriage coating eh? I’ll give you the answer. It’s because I watched this video on youtube a couple of days ago and the whole salt and rust topic reminded me of it and I couldn’t help but wonder if a coating could somehow work if used down there. Afterall you all said how great ceramic coatings are at protecting against salt and harsh chemicals right?

Watch this video.

YouTube

 

[DetailZeus]

I think toppers are sort of like putting a wax over a sealant. IMO a true coating should reject most everything you throw at it or shed it in short order, and should shrug at most acids and bases. I don't think the coatings you get for buses and industrial products need any sort of topper.

Now I think part of the issue is these types of coatings are a PITA to apply or need to be cured with heat or IR. Consumer coatings I think are closer to "super sealants" and the toppers pick up when the coating starts to die. Look at the Sonax coating, I believe it can last years when you top it with PNS every 6 months but let's be honest, after 3 years I'd think the PNS is doing all the protecting.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Just real quick (I'm in the middle of teaching the boat class)


I like our car coated because,

1. Faster washing
2. Faster drying
3. Stays cleaner longer
4. Can do a quickie wash at a self-car wash just by blasting the car and wheels with high pressure
5. Car looks amazing - super high gloss I call it GLASSY

 

[yakky]

I dunno, I guess I dont really get where the 'extra' maint. required w a coating comes from. Unless I'm messing around with something just for fun, maintaining a coated vehicle takes me far less time than when I used a sealant.

Sealant:
1. Wash using a bottle of your favorite shampoo
2. Dry
3. Apply Detail Spray/Spray Wax

Coating:
1. Wash using a bottle of your favorite shampoo
2. Dry
3. Apply SiO2 Topper monthly

As for the yearly Spring Refresh:

Sealant:
1. Wash
2. Clay
3. Apply sealant

Coating:
1. Decon (hose down with iron/tar remover)
2. Wash
3. Apply SiO2 Topper

With a sealant, if car got rained on, it needed washing. With coating, if car gets rained on, it *may* need washing but not always; sometimes if car is dusty I'll just leave it outside if heavy rain is forecast overnight and let Mother Nature give it a sufficient rinse.

With sealant, if wife brings car home with a large bird bomb on the hood at 10pm, address it immediately. With coating, I'll get to it tomorrow or hope for rain to rinse it off overnight.

While water spotting is often mentioned with coatings, I've never had an issue with it. In the sealant days, water spots on the hood I didn't get to quickly enough etched the paint (although that coulda been some rare freakish devil-rain incident that woulda damaged a coating as well)

And when you consider wheels & tires, coatings are a real timesaver. Used to take an hour alone to wash wheels, apply tire dressing (which would maybe last through a rainstorm or 2). With coated wheels and tires, spray down and dry.

Granted the initial prep and application can take somewhat longer with a coating but I'm only doing that every 2 years as opposed to every Spring when using a sealant.

Coatings certainly ain't perfect, they have some concessions one has to accept but overall, keeping a black car presentable is far less work for me than when I was using a sealant. Since going with a coating I feel that our cars have better protection and require far less physical effort from me to keep them looking good enough to me that I still turn around and look at em after parking them somewhere.

Everyone is different though, gotta do what works for you.

Seems like a lot of work.... Here is my routine for DDs.

1. Wash
2. Dry using OCW as a drying aid.
3. Enjoy the shine

Once a year or so I'll clay and use ZAIO. Sometimes I'll use 845 after a wash if I have lots of time to burn.

 

[The Guz]

Seems like a lot of work.... Here is my routine for DDs.

1. Wash
2. Dry using OCW as a drying aid.
3. Enjoy the shine

Once a year or so I'll clay and use ZAIO. Sometimes I'll use 845 after a wash if I have lots of time to burn.

It's no different that what you are already doing other than using a dedicated coating topper over the base layer coating rather than OCW. Some people just enjoy touching the paint and have the need to apply some thing.

 

[FUNX650]

Some people just enjoy touching the paint and
have the need to apply some thing.

And some of those “paint touchers” will be
among the very first to wonder why so many
swirls, and/or other types of ‘marrings’, seem
to inexplicably appear out of nowhere.


Bob

 

[spazzz]

Maybe I typed that wrong... What I meant was the biased opinion against those towels by many who just won’t allow themselves to believe they could be good for anything besides wheels and interior. Forensic comes to mind... He came up with some way out reason about how they “may” scratch your paint, but it seemed more like he was trying to convince himself that had to be the case because some people just feel like the only way a towel can be worthy is if it’s from North Korea and costs at least $3 each.

The Kirklands just don't hold their shape after a couple/few washes.
They have a tendency to thin out.
I use the new ones for drying wheels and the older ones for cleaning the wheels.

They are surprisingly nice after the first wash and could be used any where.
They are an excellent towel for the price but don't try to pamper them because it's pointless.

 

[Eldorado2k]

The Kirklands just don't hold their shape after a couple/few washes.
They have a tendency to thin out.
I use the new ones for drying wheels and the older ones for cleaning the wheels.

They are surprisingly nice after the first wash and could be used any where.
They are an excellent towel for the price but don't try to pamper them because it's pointless.

I have 2 batches of Kirklands. 1 batch is strictly for my waterless washing, the other I consider my interior/all purpose microfibers. They’re between 2-4yrs. old and have been washed countless times. The paint batch still feels just about as good as new, the other batch is good enough to use on paint if I needed them to. I’ve never experienced any major degradation from those towels.

 

[Eldorado2k]

The Kirklands just don't hold their shape after a couple/few washes.

I’ve never heard of microfibers that lose their shape.

 

[BudgetPlan1]

Seems like a lot of work.... Here is my routine for DDs.

1. Wash
2. Dry using OCW as a drying aid.
3. Enjoy the shine

Once a year or so I'll clay and use ZAIO. Sometimes I'll use 845 after a wash if I have lots of time to burn.

Que? It sounds like pretty much the same as your routine using different bottles...

And some of those “paint touchers” will be
among the very first to wonder why so many
swirls, and/or other types of ‘marrings’, seem
to inexplicably appear out of nowhere.


Bob

Considering that every time my car leaves the garage it's subject to road debris, environmental fallout of all kinds and all manner of other attacks on its finish, I'll roll the dice on wiping it down after a wash with the softest, most pampered and well cared-for towel I have.

Living dangerously perhaps but where's the fun in playing it safe all the time?

 

[yakky]

Que? It sounds like pretty much the same as your routine using different bottles...

True except I don't spend an extra couple of hours for coating prep and application.