What is the point of a ceramic coating if you have to maintain it?

[BudgetPlan1]

What SiO2 sealant will last 1.5 to 2 years? That's what a consumer grade coating lasts. A good sealant might give you 6 to 8 months at best and that's probably what they'd be using on those years 2,3,4,5 you listed. To get to a whole year you'd be looking at a coating lite product.

Yep, I'd like to see that one too. Give me anything that squirts outta a bottle, I'll put it on my daily driver in November and I can pretty much guarantee you it'll be toast by mid-January...at the latest.

 

[tuscarora dave]

Here in America, many Consumer products,
that fall within the realm of “Detailing Products”
(including LSPs), do not come under the same
scrutiny—that most other Consumer products
undergo—by the Agencies that have been duly
charged to “Protect the Consumers”.


•As a result:
-Many detailing products’ manufacturers, resellers,
vendors, etc. are, quite often, all-over-the-board
in their products’ revelations; I’ll go as far to say:
often duplicitous; not always forthcoming.
-Hard, then, for detailing products’ consumers to
sometimes know which end is up, so to say.
-Makes me approach the spending of any of my
discretionary income, on/for detailing products,
in a very cautious manner.

[Is it wrong: not wanting any those above
mentioned entities to try to, IMO, bilk me
out of even more discretionary income for
certain LSP-specific “specialty products?]


•Since it’s nearly impossible to forecast any
earth shattering changes in any of the current
Policies/Acts that oversee Consumer Products:
-We need an attention getter. :idea:...RICO ACT...



Bob

HaHa!! Bob!! I don't come here often but I sure do enjoy your wit every time I do!! The Detail Feds!!

I've lived with several different Ceramic coatings applied to my old Buick Park Ave, which I still drive daily. I have never used a topper to maintain my coatings because of the lighter color of the paint lends itself to concealing the visibility of the wash induced marring in the coatings. They sheet, they self clean and they shine for years. Speaking of which, the current application of Duragloss Enviroshield 2 year coating that's been on there for about 5 years now has served the old car well, and she'll be lightly polished soon and have another coat applied.

If I were nuts enough to own a dark colored car I assume I'd be out there topping it once a month just so it'd remain aesthetically pleasing to me, no other reason.

To those who know me Hello!! To those who don't, Hello!! Shine On!!

 

[The Guz]

What SiO2 sealant will last 1.5 to 2 years? That's what a consumer grade coating lasts. A good sealant might give you 6 to 8 months at best and that's probably what they'd be using on those years 2,3,4,5 you listed. To get to a whole year you'd be looking at a coating lite product.

Graphene bro

Seriously I would like to know as well no spray sealant will last that long. Maybe if the car is in the garage.

 

[Bruno Soares]

Graphene bro

Seriously I would like to know as well no spray sealant will last that long. Maybe if the car is in the garage.

Yeah, either Graphene or F11, nothing else will give you 2 years from a spray sealant

 

[TTQ B4U]

From a customers point of view, one BIG reason to not go with a ceramic coating is cost.

Ceramic Coating:
Year 1 - $1,400+ for a paint correction & 5 year coating in Massachusetts
Year 2 - $150 annual inspection w/ booster
Year 3 - $150 annual inspection w/ booster
Year 4 - $150 annual inspection w/ booster
Year 5 - $150 annual inspection w/ booster

Sio2 Spray Sealant:
Year 1 - $600+ for a paint correction and 1.5-2 year sio2 sealant in Massachusetts
Year 2 - $150 annual decon and sio2 re-application
Year 3 - $150 annual decon and sio2 re-application
Year 4 - $150 annual decon and sio2 re-application
Year 5 - $150 annual decon and sio2 re-application

What's the difference other than cost? Keep in mind you HAVE to get the annual inspection done to uphold a ceramic coating warranty. With an sio2 sealant, you can do the annual decon and re-application yourself for like $10 worth of cost of materials, so actual cost difference might be much greater. Something to note - I'm certified to install a 4 year coating I can't mention here. I promise I'm not a hater, I'm just not a believer in how they help my customers at all. By all means if a customer wants a coating installed even after I try to talk them out of it, I'll do it for them

$1,400 is pretty high overall. That's either a very large vehicle or a badly marred up one looking for a multi step correction or my guess, a price that is suggested by the line you're representing. Not necessarily knocking those that do charge that much but detailers abound and I wouldn't pay that much. There's no need. Every city has a solid professional detailer that isn't that pricey. I price mine based on existing condition and how far they want to take it and the hardness of the paint. I can correct a Lexus or most Japanese paints with ease thus no real need to over-charge to get a high level of correction. I won't do that. Audi, BMW, etc harder paint may require more effort and time thus more money but even there, I won't overcharge. I keep it real with my customers.

There's also no real need to worry about a warranty on a coating. I've been doing this a long time and while I offer an annual maintenance, I rarely do them. I get all my business as repeat and referral because I teach my customers to do it on their own. Nearly all do and those that don't still have no issues with the coatings. Once properly applied and bonded, there's no need for a warranty or paying to keep one. if it's done improperly the owner will know after just a few washes.

The difference other than cost is a true coating will always perform better for longer than a spray on SiO2 product, unless the user themselves are re-applying the spray on quite often. Part of the reason detailers get a bad rap is they overcharge for things like this. I'm real with my customers. The coating itself is pretty easy. It's the correction and skills and my time they are paying for. I can give a coating away and charge them more for the work if it really matters. 10yrs ago, different story but today's products aren't difficult.

That said, I won't joint a "certified" product list of detailers. Where I use higher end stuff, I buy my products from others as a pass-through from those I know that are "certified" I will not accept a company or brand dictating my pricing or anything regarding what I sell, say or do. I also don't need nor want their "leads" That's really the only reason to get certified. Their products aren't any more challenging to install thus their training isn't something I need. I've been doing this longer than some of their trainers have been alive.

 

[98CayenneTA]

$1,400 is pretty high overall. That's either a very large vehicle or a badly marred up one looking for a multi step correction or my guess, a price that is suggested by the line you're representing. Not necessarily knocking those that do charge that much but detailers abound and I wouldn't pay that much. There's no need. Every city has a solid professional detailer that isn't that pricey. I price mine based on existing condition and how far they want to take it and the hardness of the paint. I can correct a Lexus or most Japanese paints with ease thus no real need to over-charge to get a high level of correction. I won't do that. Audi, BMW, etc harder paint may require more effort and time thus more money but even there, I won't overcharge. I keep it real with my customers.

There's also no real need to worry about a warranty on a coating. I've been doing this a long time and while I offer an annual maintenance, I rarely do them. I get all my business as repeat and referral because I teach my customers to do it on their own. Nearly all do and those that don't still have no issues with the coatings. Once properly applied and bonded, there's no need for a warranty or paying to keep one. if it's done improperly the owner will know after just a few washes.

The difference other than cost is a true coating will always perform better for longer than a spray on SiO2 product, unless the user themselves are re-applying the spray on quite often. Part of the reason detailers get a bad rap is they overcharge for things like this. I'm real with my customers. The coating itself is pretty easy. It's the correction and skills and my time they are paying for. I can give a coating away and charge them more for the work if it really matters. 10yrs ago, different story but today's products aren't difficult.

That said, I won't joint a "certified" product list of detailers. Where I use higher end stuff, I buy my products from others as a pass-through from those I know that are "certified" I will not accept a company or brand dictating my pricing or anything regarding what I sell, say or do. I also don't need nor want their "leads" That's really the only reason to get certified. Their products aren't any more challenging to install thus their training isn't something I need. I've been doing this longer than some of their trainers have been alive.

Yup, nailed it right here

 

[Coatingsarecrack]

Yep, I'd like to see that one too. Give me anything that squirts outta a bottle, I'll put it on my daily driver in November and I can pretty much guarantee you it'll be toast by mid-January...at the latest.

Cancoat and Moonlight!

No i get what you mean (spray sealant) and with your winter weather nothing is gonna get 3 months in your weather. Not even OverCoat or Cosmic.


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[acuRAS82]

Cancoat and Moonlight!

No i get what you mean (spray sealant) and with your winter weather nothing is gonna get 3 months in your weather. Not even OverCoat or Cosmic.

Cancoat and Moonlight should get through an Ohio winter unless they use totally different ice melt in OH than upstate NY or PA (I suppose Budget knows this answer best). I would agree that Cosmic and Overcoat would get a few months max of strong winter/salts in an upstate NY area. But people like me find time to top in the winter anyways.

 

[BudgetPlan1]

Cancoat and Moonlight!

No i get what you mean (spray sealant) and with your winter weather nothing is gonna get 3 months in your weather. Not even OverCoat or Cosmic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

On the sides of a heavily used car, some years not even CanCoat/Moonlight is gonna stand up unscathed to the 5000 miles of no wash, no maintenance Winter freeway driving I'll do in 3 months; it's not just the chemicals that get kicked up from the road but also all the grime and garbage that physically abrades (in a sense) the lower side panels of the car. My car won't get any maintenance from November thru April so that stuff just builds up. Hood, roof and trunk lid will be fine but it also seems like the vertical part of the trunk lid gets killed too along with the back bumper. I could probably help it last with an occasional wash but it's too friggin' cold for my old bones generally.

Cancoat and Moonlight should get through an Ohio winter unless they use totally different ice melt in OH than upstate NY or PA (I suppose Budget knows this answer best). I would agree that Cosmic and Overcoat would get a few months max of strong winter/salts in an upstate NY area. But people like me find time to top in the winter anyways.

They use everything in Ohio at the first hint of snow; I think it's a chemical brew though up by a car-hating tree-hugger :lol:

Ohio De-Icing: https://www.dot.state.oh.us/Divisio...tive(s)_-_Snow_and_Ice_Control_Treatments.pdf

And then even when Spring hits until we get a couple of monsoon-like rains to cleanse the World, the residue stays on the road for months and 're-energizes itself' every time it rains a bit. I'm still washing salt dust off my car in April some years after driving on a dry day.

I take the Winter off w/ regards to car care; my wife's daily driver hasn't been bucket washed since late October most likely and hasn't seen the inside of a soap/rinse only tunnel wash at all. My daily last got bucket washed around the same late October time and has seen the touchless tunnel wash twice since then. It's actually kinda nice to ignore care-care for 5 or 6 months :lol:

 

[98CayenneTA]

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[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

They use everything in Ohio at the first hint of snow; I think it's a chemical brew though up by a car-hating tree-hugger :lol:

Ohio De-Icing: https://www.dot.state.oh.us/Divisio...tive(s)_-_Snow_and_Ice_Control_Treatments.pdf

I read through the info you linked to and all I can say is,


WOW!


What Witches Brew of corrosive chemicals to use on roads to help make driving in icy weather safer.


:dunno:

 

[PaulMys]

I read through the info you linked to and all I can say is,


WOW!


What Witches Brew of corrosive chemicals to use on roads to help make driving in icy weather safer.


:dunno:

The thing is, just about 90% of those listed conditions don't really need the roads to be treated, just plowed.

But....... 90% of people are morons and refuse to adjust their driving to the conditions at hand. Therefore, all of the chemicals have to be deployed to "Idiot-proof" the roads and save people from their own stupidity.

 

[Autobahnd]

This last weekend I REMOVED a coating and sealed the paint with a synthetic paint sealant. It's a GARAGE QUEEN. It doesn't need a long lasting protection.

I'm kind of with you. It's faster and easier for me to machine polish and seal car paint with traditional products and then faster and easier to keep them up then it is to do the initial coating installation and then the upkeep.


Me? I'm rethinking all of this.


:dunno:

I must have missed some notifications Mike, but she's a beaut! God do I miss traditional sealants...no masks so you don't inhale fumes...no stressing over high spots...no throwing away microfiber towels. Good times!

 

[dlc95]

That said, I won't joint a "certified" product list of detailers. Where I use higher end stuff, I buy my products from others as a pass-through from those I know that are "certified" I will not accept a company or brand dictating my pricing or anything regarding what I sell, say or do. I also don't need nor want their "leads" That's really the only reason to get certified. Their products aren't any more challenging to install thus their training isn't something I need. I've been doing this longer than some of their trainers have been alive.

I had seriously considered going that route for myself, but with the level of quality we have in some of these "consumer" coatings I'm not 100% sure I need to offer anything past a CarPro or Gyeon top end coating.

Especially when I consider what I use at work may not even out perform Cquartz. I saw one guy test a bunch of them and the Cquartz was killing some of the pro only coatings. Blew my mind....

Another thing for me is how much more difficult the coatings we use are compared to the consumer offerings, with similar or even lesser performance.

 

[dlc95]

On the sides of a heavily used car, some years not even CanCoat/Moonlight is gonna stand up unscathed to the 5000 miles of no wash, no maintenance Winter freeway driving I'll do in 3 months; it's not just the chemicals that get kicked up from the road but also all the grime and garbage that physically abrades (in a sense) the lower side panels of the car. My car won't get any maintenance from November thru April so that stuff just builds up. Hood, roof and trunk lid will be fine but it also seems like the vertical part of the trunk lid gets killed too along with the back bumper. I could probably help it last with an occasional wash but it's too friggin' cold for my old bones generally.

They use everything in Ohio at the first hint of snow; I think it's a chemical brew though up by a car-hating tree-hugger :lol:

Ohio De-Icing: https://www.dot.state.oh.us/Divisio...tive(s)_-_Snow_and_Ice_Control_Treatments.pdf

And then even when Spring hits until we get a couple of monsoon-like rains to cleanse the World, the residue stays on the road for months and 're-energizes itself' every time it rains a bit. I'm still washing salt dust off my car in April some years after driving on a dry day.

I take the Winter off w/ regards to car care; my wife's daily driver hasn't been bucket washed since late October most likely and hasn't seen the inside of a soap/rinse only tunnel wash at all. My daily last got bucket washed around the same late October time and has seen the touchless tunnel wash twice since then. It's actually kinda nice to ignore care-care for 5 or 6 months :lol:

My old friend from 5th grade, he designed the brine systems for the city of Auburn Hills, MI. It's actually beet based, but still some pretty mean stuff.

He's the guy that loves the Meguiar's Hybrid Coating I put on his truck last summer.

Michigan winter road treatments are absolutely brutal and unmerciful to vehicles.

Funny that Eldo was talking about coating the undercarriage of vehicles. I was considering that with my gf Jeep when she got it last Septber(?). I still may of it's not too far gone.

 

[dlc95]

I must have missed some notifications Mike, but she's a beaut! God do I miss traditional sealants...no masks so you don't inhale fumes...no stressing over high spots...no throwing away microfiber towels. Good times!

That's why I really liked Optimum Gloss Coat.

I've had such good luck with it in the past.

I had the day off today, and broke out the Duragloss 601, 111, and Aquawax. Then put some Zymol Carbon on it. Just the driver's side doors. I figured that I'd test out some products before I hand the keys over to my long time friend. I put Cquartz Lite on the hood. Zymol by itself on the passenger doors, and Optimum Hyper Seal driver side trunk lid, and Gloss Coat passenger side trunk lid.

To think that at one point that Duragloss combo was my highest durability offering. No one ever complained (not that they complain about coatings), and I could (and still do) apply them outside when necessary. It was really good! I missed it. I used to put the Zymol on top for an extra few bucks... I enjoyed that.

I guess I come from the perspective that one should just use what they're comfortable with.