#7 over Tech Wax?
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Wolf-Strong
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- Jul 10, 2007
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M7 has no cleaners in it what-so-ever; it is a pure polish. Also note that it has no protection abilities and if a wax is not put over it, it will be gone after the first wash. Because it is a pure polish, it needs to be applied directly to the paint, before any LSP for maximum effect. You could apply it after, but you won't get the full effect.
Fly bye
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- Nov 16, 2007
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As most detailers already know, there are a lot of misnomers in the detailing world. This is especially true with Meguires automotive detailing products. For example, what most manufacturers call a polish/compound, Meguires calls a "cleaner". A cleaner, known in the detailing world, is a product that is non-abrasive, to be used when the finish is in near perfect condition, for readying a finish before applying a glaze, and or sealant/wax. A cleaner typically uses chemicals to clean, and refine the finish prior to sealing, whereas a cleaner to Meguires can be very abrasive, #1, #4, #84 ect.
Meguires #7 is a glaze. It says "Pure Polish" right on the bottle. Well, if you look up polish in the dictionary, the definition is this: "to make smooth and glossy usually by friction" This is the same definition as "Burnish", which is defined by Websters as: "to make shiny or lustrous especially by rubbing" These definitions both date back to the 14th century.
A glaze typically has oils, waxes/fillers as well as some degree of cleaning/polishing ability. According to Pinnacle, their XMT polishes are "Pure Polishes" meaning that they contain NO fillers or wax. The reason behind this is, you can actually see your work. In other words, if a polish had fillers/wax in it, you CANNOT see your work.
I find it funny that Meguires calls this product a "Glaze/Pure Polish".
Whatever.
The bottom line is, this product has to a degree, cleaning/chemical, or slight abrasive properties, and will (or should) remove wax from the finish.
Meguires #7 is a glaze. It says "Pure Polish" right on the bottle. Well, if you look up polish in the dictionary, the definition is this: "to make smooth and glossy usually by friction" This is the same definition as "Burnish", which is defined by Websters as: "to make shiny or lustrous especially by rubbing" These definitions both date back to the 14th century.
A glaze typically has oils, waxes/fillers as well as some degree of cleaning/polishing ability. According to Pinnacle, their XMT polishes are "Pure Polishes" meaning that they contain NO fillers or wax. The reason behind this is, you can actually see your work. In other words, if a polish had fillers/wax in it, you CANNOT see your work.
I find it funny that Meguires calls this product a "Glaze/Pure Polish".
Whatever.
The bottom line is, this product has to a degree, cleaning/chemical, or slight abrasive properties, and will (or should) remove wax from the finish.
Showroom Shine
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- Apr 19, 2007
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Thanks for the indept explanation on the Meg's products. Good Post!:whs:
Wolf-Strong
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- Jul 10, 2007
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As most detailers already know, there are a lot of misnomers in the detailing world. This is especially true with Meguires automotive detailing products. For example, what most manufacturers call a polish/compound, Meguires calls a "cleaner". A cleaner, known in the detailing world, is a product that is non-abrasive, to be used when the finish is in near perfect condition, for readying a finish before applying a glaze, and or sealant/wax. A cleaner typically uses chemicals to clean, and refine the finish prior to sealing, whereas a cleaner to Meguires can be very abrasive, #1, #4, #84 ect.
Meguires #7 is a glaze. It says "Pure Polish" right on the bottle. Well, if you look up polish in the dictionary, the definition is this: "to make smooth and glossy usually by friction" This is the same definition as "Burnish", which is defined by Websters as: "to make shiny or lustrous especially by rubbing" These definitions both date back to the 14th century.
A glaze typically has oils, waxes/fillers as well as some degree of cleaning/polishing ability. According to Pinnacle, their XMT polishes are "Pure Polishes" meaning that they contain NO fillers or wax. The reason behind this is, you can actually see your work. In other words, if a polish had fillers/wax in it, you CANNOT see your work.
I find it funny that Meguires calls this product a "Glaze/Pure Polish".
Whatever.
The bottom line is, this product has to a degree, cleaning/chemical, or slight abrasive properties, and will (or should) remove wax from the finish.
I'm not sure where you get your information, but that is completely false!
First, your definition of cleaners is wrong. There are both chemicle cleaners and diminishing abrassive cleaners in the Meguiar's line. Cleaning, as defined by Meguiar's, is the term used for when you remove paint. Both non-abrassive, chemicle, and compound cleaners ALL do this. Removing paint, or cleaning, is used to remove imperfections such as ething, scratches, swirls, and marring.
Now the term polish itself means to produce beauty. You can infact use it interchangably with cleaning, but Meguiar's seperates the two terms for the reason of helping people understand two difference steps. We just covered the step of cleaning, or leveling/removing paint to produce the best optical reflection. They then use the term polish or glaze for the step where oils are added to the paint. Many manufactorer's cleaner/polishes actually have these oils in them to help lubricate the surface, but they serve the same purpose, which is to fill in pours in the paint to help keep it from oxidizing.
The other thing you got wrong is that M7 has NO cleaners in it what-so-ever, which is a unique thing. I have used M7 countless times, both ontop of an LSP and beneath it. It will not remove the LSP/wax/sealant as it has no ability to. M7 is nothing but pure oils. When paint oxidizes, especially single stage, that means it has essentially been beat down by UV rays and dried out. M7 conditions the paint again and will infact bring back its luster. Paint itself is a porous surface, (not so much two-stage, but single stage is very porous) and when you add in the oils, it fills in these pours, bringing back luster.
You have to remember M7 was produced back in the day before there was such a thing as a wax. You would use it to bring luster back to your dried out, single stage paint, and to put it plainly, it worked! It doesn't perform as much of a jaw dropping difference on modern day clear-coated surfaced, but it will still help. Today, this adding oil, or polishing step, has been much replaced by using a cleaner/polish with the PC/UDM/rotary or even in the LSP itself. Many waxes out there do infact contain oils in them to help fill in these pours (souveran, Zymol, Zaino has its own way of doing it), an while they may not all use the same type of oils, it is still usually done. There are only two waxes that I know of that do not contain any oils in them (talking directly for carnauba based as synthetics are a different ball game), and that is M16 and M26. I do have a few other guesses of waxes that may not contain polishing oils, but I can't confirm it.
To answer your question, you are wasting your time putting #7 on top of Tech wax. #7 is good for after polishing to add oils and fillers into the paint bringing enhancing the shine and the topping with Tech wax. Tech wax has some cleaning properties and may diminsh the #7 so be careful.
Fly bye
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- Nov 16, 2007
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My definition of cleaners is wrong? First off, what I explained is Meguires definition of cleaners.
There are no cleaners in the Meguires line that do NOT contain abrasives.
These are all the products by meguires that contain the word "CLEANER" in the name. These are ALL abrasive. They are NOT chemical cleaners. Meguires doesn't make a cleaner that is NOT abrasive.
These products on the other hand, would be considered a cleaner/polish/glaze. Do you see the word "CLEANER" in the product name on the bottle? I don't.
As far as the word "Polish" is concerned, I explained that in my post. "To make smooth and glossy usually by "friction" This definition is in Websters English dictionary. maybe you don't read English?
Polishing and compounding are essentially the same thing, compounding being the more agressive of the two. In the world of detailing, polishing and cleaning are simular, cleaning being the least aggressive of the two. There are cleaners out there that are intended for finishes that are near perfect, (no abrasive properties) while a Cleaner in the Meguires line is an aggressive polish/compound, a misnomer.
The whole point of my post was to point out misnomers in the world of detailing.
Meguires has it backwards. What one manufacturer calls a polish/compound, Meguires calls a "Cleaner". What Meguires calls a polish/glaze, most other manufactures call a "Cleaner"
I made this perfectly clear in my post. Apparently you don't have the skills to understand something so simple.
As I explaned in my post, XMT polishes are "PURE POLISHES", meaning that they contain no FILLERS or WAXES!!! It says right on the bottle. XMT Pure Polish is an abrasive.
Meguires #7 is a pure polish, which according to Pinnacle XMT, contains NO fillers or waxes. Thats not the case with Meguires #7. If you remembered the part of my post that described something along the line of "MISNOMER"? Thats was what my message was primarily about, but apparently you didn't get that.
A product that one company calls, and does, may be called something by another manufacturer that is the total opposite.
For your information, pure Caranuba wax is extremely hard. All Caranuba wax has oils, and other agents so that it can be used on automotive finishes.
You keep saying MY definition is wrong, I don't define Meguires products, Meguires products are defined by themselves, the manufacturer.
Before you go undermining somebody, do your homework first.
There are no cleaners in the Meguires line that do NOT contain abrasives.
These are all the products by meguires that contain the word "CLEANER" in the name. These are ALL abrasive. They are NOT chemical cleaners. Meguires doesn't make a cleaner that is NOT abrasive.
These products on the other hand, would be considered a cleaner/polish/glaze. Do you see the word "CLEANER" in the product name on the bottle? I don't.
As far as the word "Polish" is concerned, I explained that in my post. "To make smooth and glossy usually by "friction" This definition is in Websters English dictionary. maybe you don't read English?
This is correct in terms of polishing/cleaning being simular. As a matter of fact, most companies also separate these two terms even though they can be used together. The thing that you don't understand is, (I clearly explained this in my post) what most companies refur to as a cleaner, which is a very light polish, usually from chemical cleaners, Meguires refurs to as an "Abrasive Cutting Agent" That is a Misnomer.
Polishing and compounding are essentially the same thing, compounding being the more agressive of the two. In the world of detailing, polishing and cleaning are simular, cleaning being the least aggressive of the two. There are cleaners out there that are intended for finishes that are near perfect, (no abrasive properties) while a Cleaner in the Meguires line is an aggressive polish/compound, a misnomer.
The whole point of my post was to point out misnomers in the world of detailing.
Meguires has it backwards. What one manufacturer calls a polish/compound, Meguires calls a "Cleaner". What Meguires calls a polish/glaze, most other manufactures call a "Cleaner"
I made this perfectly clear in my post. Apparently you don't have the skills to understand something so simple.
As I explaned in my post, XMT polishes are "PURE POLISHES", meaning that they contain no FILLERS or WAXES!!! It says right on the bottle. XMT Pure Polish is an abrasive.
Meguires #7 is a pure polish, which according to Pinnacle XMT, contains NO fillers or waxes. Thats not the case with Meguires #7. If you remembered the part of my post that described something along the line of "MISNOMER"? Thats was what my message was primarily about, but apparently you didn't get that.
A product that one company calls, and does, may be called something by another manufacturer that is the total opposite.
For your information, pure Caranuba wax is extremely hard. All Caranuba wax has oils, and other agents so that it can be used on automotive finishes.
You keep saying MY definition is wrong, I don't define Meguires products, Meguires products are defined by themselves, the manufacturer.
Before you go undermining somebody, do your homework first.
Fly bye
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- Nov 16, 2007
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:iagree:
AjNavo61490
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- Oct 29, 2007
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top #7 off with the tech wax
Detail_Guy
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- Mar 4, 2006
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Here's my response...
Not sure if Meguiar's has it right or wrong with their definition of polishes, but I can tell you this... there are no cleaners or abrasives in #7... period!
Not sure if Meguiar's has it right or wrong with their definition of polishes, but I can tell you this... there are no cleaners or abrasives in #7... period!
Fly bye
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- Nov 16, 2007
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there are no cleaners or abrasives in #7... period!
I would say you are 100% correct
The point I was trying to make, is that differen't companys use the same exact name for a product that perform two entirely different functions. For example, Megs #7 has "Pure Polish" right on the bottle. We know that it does not contain chemical cleaners, or abrasives, whereas a product like, say XMT for example, their polish does contain diminishing abrasives. So the industry is kind of misleading.
Now, you look up the word "Polish" in the dictionary, as I already posted, the definition is this; "To make smooth and glossy usually by "friction"
Pretty much most, if not all the companys I have come across, define the word "Polish" as the way Websters defines it.
The intent of my original post was to point out this misnomer.
Wolf-Strong
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- Jul 10, 2007
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The misunderstanding here seems to be in the fact that what some consider cleaners, others consider polishes. M7 has no ability to remove any imperfection, or protection from the surface. I also never said anything about pure carnauba waxes; the two waxes I did mention are not even carnauba based waxes, rather a blended wax LSP. The truth is, the carnauba is taken down to a useable level with many different types of methods, many of which include solvents, not oils. The oils are there to help lubricate the surface, which many manufactorers use. What I have found different about M26 and M16 is while they do have carnauba in them, it is a very little amount, and the wax itself is actually a polymer based wax (with a fair amount of Silicone if I am not mistaken).
I am not going to argue on who is right or wrong in their definitions, and I believe people around here already have formed their opinions on that matter. For me, I use the term cleaners for products that remove paint, which can infact be done with chemical cleaners (which do not contain abrassives), and with abrassives. Abrassives being defined as essentially little objects that dig into the paint to level it out, whereas a chemical cleaner may be defined as a soap, which will clean out surface etchings, but not much more (very loose analogy).
On a final note with M7, the cleaning ability people do experience with it tends to be in their method of application. If you use M7 on a wool or cutting pad, of course you are going to see some cleaning action happen. Apply M7 by hand with a finishing foam pad, and you will not, unless of course you start putting your 150lb weight into it, then of couse some cleaning action will happen. M7 in itself has no ability to remove imperfections. Adding NXT will also not effect M7's look either, as whatever cleaning ability is in NXT is so mild, many don't even consider it. Even a mild cleaner wax won't take much effect if it uses chemical cleaners, though once you start removing paint with anything more agressive than that, you are then removing the paint which M7 absorbed into, which will of course then remove its wet look.
I am not going to argue on who is right or wrong in their definitions, and I believe people around here already have formed their opinions on that matter. For me, I use the term cleaners for products that remove paint, which can infact be done with chemical cleaners (which do not contain abrassives), and with abrassives. Abrassives being defined as essentially little objects that dig into the paint to level it out, whereas a chemical cleaner may be defined as a soap, which will clean out surface etchings, but not much more (very loose analogy).
On a final note with M7, the cleaning ability people do experience with it tends to be in their method of application. If you use M7 on a wool or cutting pad, of course you are going to see some cleaning action happen. Apply M7 by hand with a finishing foam pad, and you will not, unless of course you start putting your 150lb weight into it, then of couse some cleaning action will happen. M7 in itself has no ability to remove imperfections. Adding NXT will also not effect M7's look either, as whatever cleaning ability is in NXT is so mild, many don't even consider it. Even a mild cleaner wax won't take much effect if it uses chemical cleaners, though once you start removing paint with anything more agressive than that, you are then removing the paint which M7 absorbed into, which will of course then remove its wet look.
ricka
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- May 16, 2007
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From what I've found so far (and verified in other posts), Meg #5 or #7 doesn't add much if anything to a nice clear coat. It's mostly formulated for single stage paint. Guess its okay to use if you're convinced more is better, but I just don't see the big advantage.
To me it doesn't even add a worthwhile slickness either.
Just my 2c.
To me it doesn't even add a worthwhile slickness either.
Just my 2c.
Detail_Guy
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- Mar 4, 2006
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Yep, #7 is essentially a layer of oils for gloss enhancement and the temporary filling of imperfections. It is made to be used under Tech wax (or other carnauba's).
I belonged to a Hot Rod car club and 90% of the old Hot Rods are painted in a single stage. Many of those owners will use #7 for show purposes only to enhance shine and clarity. It offers no cleaning properties, and is not meant to, and does not provide any durablity.