Flex vs. Rupes Gear Driven Orbital Polishers

[2black1s]

I’m trying to gather as much information as I can to help with my decision for a potential future purchase.

I’m very familiar with all of the rave reviews and other positive threads for the Flex machines but not so much for the Rupes… There just doesn’t seem to be as much discussion around the Rupes. Is that because the Rupes just can’t compare? There are less of them out there? Or other reasons?

The primary reason I’m asking about the Rupes is due to the clockwise rotation. I know, I know… Everyone that has used a Flex says the rotational direction is irrelevant but something in my mind tells me otherwise and that is an important consideration to me. This thread is not intended to debate the effects of the rotational direction of any machine… It is what it is. The real intent is to determine the efficacy of the Rupes vs. the efficacy of the Flex for the following applications.

The primary use of the machine will be for routine polishing and final finishing. Absolute correction ability and/or speed is not a primary concern as I am proficient with and will continue to use a rotary for such applications. What I’m really looking for is the zero-stall benefit of a gear driven machine vs. a conventional random orbital during routine polishing to speed up the process without compromising finish quality. I’d like to be able to “tilt” the machine anywhere from slightly to all the way on edge in certain and appropriate situations without the worry of pad rotation.

So, given my desire for a CW rotating gear driven orbital (not many choices), is the Rupes a worthy machine? Or is it miles behind the Flex? I understand the larger throw of the Flex probably equates to more correction ability, but again, absolute correction ability is not my objective. In fact, I think I’ll prefer the shorter throw of the Rupes for finishing and working up to edges/body lines.

Not mentioned are some of the other choices, like the Makita or Lake Country polishers. That is as intended as I’m not a fan of multi-function tools.

What do you guys say?

 

[98CayenneTA]

I also am a massive rotary user for cutting but have been heavily pondering the FLEX XCE 10-8 125.

The one thing that jumps out at me and will be pushing me towards the FLEX XCE 10-8 125 once back in stock is the 8mm throw vs the MILLE LK900E 5mm throw.

I'm with you though on the pad rotation, don't know if my brain can handle counter clockwise :laughing:

 

[JT Moto]

You know, I never really hear anything about the rupes forced rotation just like I am lost never hear about the flex random orbital or as Mike calls it “the finisher”.

I’d be interested to hear folks I put as well.

That being said, I own and Beast and Supa beast as well as a pixie. The pixie has shown me some advantages and disadvantages or the free spinning random orbital.


Sent from my iPhone using Autogeekonline mobile app

 

[psnt1ol]

I have both the 3401 and the new super beast. I also have a Rupes 21 and a GG G15. They all have their places depending on the job at hand. I prefer to compound with Gear driven orbital and finish down with a long throw.

To be honest with you.... the counter clockwise rotation doesnt bother me. Maybe I am so used to it. I dont think about it anymore. What I like about the gear driven machine is that I could vary the pressure to get the result I am looking for. I do find MF pads does better on a long throw than a gear driven one and wool on a gear driven machine is simply a monster. A curvy car generally would give you the most fits if your technique is not on par and this is where a gear driven machine shines. For me.... it comes at a price. Its more taxing on my body using a gear driven machine. If a vehicle has many large flat panels.... the long throw is coming out. LOL

If gear driven and long throw machines are cars, Gear driven machine is American Muscle while the long throw is a European sports car. Both type of cars have pluses and minuses and it really depends on your driven style and the road you are on. It also holds true for both gear driven and long throw machines.

 

[2black1s]

I also am a massive rotary user for cutting but have been heavily pondering the FLEX XCE 10-8 125.

The one thing that jumps out at me and will be pushing me towards the FLEX XCE 10-8 125 once back in stock is the 8mm throw vs the MILLE LK900E 5mm throw.

I'm with you though on the pad rotation, don't know if my brain can handle counter clockwise :laughing:

Well like I said... That 5mm throw is probably a benefit when it comes to edges and body lines.

 

[2black1s]

I have both the 3401 and the new super beast. I also have a Rupes 21 and a GG G15. They all have their places depending on the job at hand. I prefer to compound with Gear driven orbital and finish down with a long throw.

To be honest with you.... the counter clockwise rotation doesnt bother me. Maybe I am so used to it. I dont think about it anymore. What I like about the gear driven machine is that I could vary the pressure to get the result I am looking for. I do find MF pads does better on a long throw than a gear driven one and wool on a gear driven machine is simply a monster. A curvy car generally would give you the most fits if your technique is not on par and this is where a gear driven machine shines. For me.... it comes at a price. Its more taxing on my body using a gear driven machine. If a vehicle has many large flat panels.... the long throw is coming out. LOL

If gear driven and long throw machines are cars, Gear driven machine is American Muscle while the long throw is a European sports car. Both type of cars have pluses and minuses and it really depends on your driven style and the road you are on. It also holds true for both gear driven and long throw machines.

Good analogy with the cars.

As for the taxing on body part, I cut my teeth with a 12 lb., 3,000 RPM single speed rotary, so I imagine today's gear-driven orbital polishers are probably a walk in the park by contrast.

 

[psnt1ol]

Good analogy with the cars.

As for the taxing on body part, I cut my teeth with a 12 lb., 3,000 RPM single speed rotary, so I imagine today's gear-driven orbital polishers are probably a walk in the park by contrast.

Holy POPEYE arms... Batman !!!! LOL

If you are used to the rotary then the counter clockwise rotation wont bother you. IMHO.... Most users who had a hard time with this are generally those who came from a free spinning DA. I remember the first time going from a rotary to a free spinning DA... I felt like I wasnt getting anything done. The very first time I laid hands on the 3401... I was like " OK... I got this". Took to it like duck to water. Please be mindful that everyone's mileage may differ.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I’m trying to gather as much information as I can to help with my decision for a potential future purchase.

I've used the FLEX BEASTS a LOT in my life. I have access to both the RUPES Mille and the Makita PO5000C


All three tools are capable machines and gear-driven orbital is so much more efficient for correction work than free spinning random orbital. I know if a person spends enough time with any of these tools they can learn to make them dance on paint.

The clockwise/counterclockwise aspects don't mean anything to me when using either the RUPES or the FLEX polishers, it simply is what it is and whichever tool you own and use you get use to this aspect or characteristic.


Here's my own personal take for what it's worth and it's simply my personal preference, there's no bias or fanboy emotion involved. When I go to do paint correction work or polishing, now days I always grab the Supa BEAST. To me, even though it's a small difference, 8mm gear-driven orbital is faster and more aggressive than 5mm gear-driven orbital. I want to go fast but keep my quality high.

If RUPES or Makita would have brought out an 8mm gear-driven orbital you would likely see me using these types of tools as much as the BEASTS. But for their own reasons they chose to go with 5mm


We use to sell the Makita PO5000C here at Autogeek but they moved or "sold" so slowly we never put in a second purchase order after depleting the inventory for the first purchase order. I have 6 of them in the garage, none of them ever get used.l

I think I have 7 or 8 Milles in the garage and about the only time the get used is during my classes as I teach ALL the tools.

I probably have 40+ FLEX 3401s, Supa Beasts and CBEASTS and they get used a LOT.

 

[Thomkirby]

Well if you cannot make the class with Mike then I suggest a way to try them out yourself. You might talk to some of the detailers in your area and see if you can have them show you their RUPES Mille or the FLEX 3401. Given our weather patterns now you might be surprised to get a chance to try and discuss.

Just a thought!

 

[2black1s]

I've used the FLEX BEASTS a LOT in my life. I have access to both the RUPES Mille and the Makita PO5000C


All three tools are capable machines and gear-driven orbital is so much more efficient for correction work than free spinning random orbital. I know if a person spends enough time with any of these tools they can learn to make them dance on paint.

The clockwise/counterclockwise aspects don't mean anything to me when using either the RUPES or the FLEX polishers, it simply is what it is and whichever tool you own and use you get use to this aspect or characteristic.


Here's my own personal take for what it's worth and it's simply my personal preference, there's no bias or fanboy emotion involved. When I go to do paint correction work or polishing, now days I always grab the Supa BEAST. To me, even though it's a small difference, 8mm gear-driven orbital is faster and more aggressive than 5mm gear-driven orbital. I want to go fast but keep my quality high.

If RUPES or Makita would have brought out an 8mm gear-driven orbital you would likely see me using these types of tools as much as the BEASTS. But for their own reasons they chose to go with 5mm


We use to sell the Makita PO5000C here at Autogeek but they moved or "sold" so slowly we never put in a second purchase order after depleting the inventory for the first purchase order. I have 6 of them in the garage, none of them ever get used.l

I think I have 7 or 8 Milles in the garage and about the only time the get used is during my classes as I teach ALL the tools.

I probably have 40+ FLEX 3401s, Supa Beasts and CBEASTS and they get used a LOT.

Thanks Mike. I knew what your opinion would be as I was creating this thread. From all of your posts relative to using the Flex Polishers, I know that they are amongst your favorites and your go-to polisher more often than not. You're a Flex guy and I get that. And I also respect your opinions.

Here's my situation though, and the primary reason I'm asking about the Rupes...

I've been doing this stuff a long time (late 1960s) although I do not have as much pure polishing experience as you. Where you may have polished cars five days a week, I was painting for five days and polishing for one (this is only an analogy and not necessarily mathematically correct). And then over the last twenty or so years, my polishing is more or less a few to several times a year, not a daily exercise.

That said, all of my experience is with CW rotating polishers. It’s natural to me. Throwing a reverse rotation polisher into the mix at this point concerns me a bit. I could certainly adjust and adapt to the reverse rotation with enough tool time, but my tool time is not that great these days. Therefore, I believe getting familiar with a new tool would be more natural and expeditious given the CW rotation.

I may be wrong, but those are my thoughts now.

Your second paragraph gives me the kind of information I was soliciting…

“All three tools are capable machines and gear-driven orbital is so much more efficient for correction work than free spinning random orbital. I know if a person spends enough time with any of these tools they can learn to make them dance on paint.”

I want to be dancing on the paint within a few minutes of using the tool and I think the CW rotation, in conjunction with my past experience, will play its part in realizing that goal. And also, the absolute correction ability is not my primary objective. Finishing well, without the issue of pad stalling in prone areas, is the primary objective.

Thanks again for the information. I certainly haven't made any decisions yet, even if I'm going to make a purchase at all, but if I do I have to say that I was leaning in the Rupes direction for the reasons stated.

And to borrow a phrase of yours... Make Sense?

 

[oneheadlite]

You might try PM'ing user TTQ B4U if he doesn't chime in here - I believe he has both the Mille and the Flex machines. Not sure which he's been using lately, but I bet he'd have good feedback for you.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Thanks Mike. I knew what your opinion would be as I was creating this thread. From all of your posts relative to using the Flex Polishers, I know that they are amongst your favorites and your go-to polisher more often than not. You're a Flex guy and I get that. And I also respect your opinions.

I love my RUPES BigFoot 21 Mark III and in most of the write-ups I post you see my Angry Nano in the picture.

I'm not a FLEX guy nor an "any" guy, like most of you - I use what works best for me. That's it. In fact, I abhor anything to do with fanboyism. :bolt:

That said, all of my experience is with CW rotating polishers. It’s natural to me. Throwing a reverse rotation polisher into the mix at this point concerns me a bit. I could certainly adjust and adapt to the reverse rotation with enough tool time, but my tool time is not that great these days. Therefore, I believe getting familiar with a new tool would be more natural and expeditious given the CW rotation.

Completely understand.

Here's the most important feature and also a benefit if trying to buff CLOSE to an edge or a component.

Due to the small 5mm orbit stroke of the Mille, (and also the Makita PO5000C), it's a much more precise tool in it's buffing pattern as far as it relates to getting the outer edge of the pad next to a body line or component - like a side mirror.

Its "Ghosting Image" or Ghosting Footprint" is smaller than the 8mm FLEX tools. And this can come in handy. That or just use a rotary.

 

[2black1s]

... I'm not a FLEX guy nor an "any" guy, like most of you - I use what works best for me. That's it. In fact, I abhor anything to do with fanboyism. :bolt:...

I could have chosen my words more carefully... without being so presumptive. In fact, when I go back and re-read what I wrote, that entire sentence was unnecessary as the prior sentence had already made the point.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I could have chosen my words more carefully... without being so presumptive. In fact, when I go back and re-read what I wrote, that entire sentence was unnecessary as the prior sentence had already made the point.

It’s all good man :dblthumb2:



:cheers:

 

[TMQ]

2Black1s,

Get either the beast or supa beast.

If you're a rotary polisher---Then these Flex polishers will feel tame to you. You'll do fine!
You won't know or feel the the difference in which way pads turns.

Worst case---you can sell the beast since they are discontinuing them.

Me--I'll go BEAST all the way!

And this is from a Rupes polisher guy!

Tom

 

[PaulMys]

I'm not a FLEX guy nor an "any" guy, like most of you - I use what works best for me. That's it. In fact, I abhor anything to do with fanboyism. :bolt:

While I certainly respect this statement Mike, you must admit that it is much easier for you to use whatever works for you when you have hundreds of the very best at your fingertips at any given time.

Most of the rest of us have to make a decision on what to buy, and well there you have it.

As for the fanboy's, I do agree to an extent when it becomes venomous. But just like Ford, GM, and Chrysler fans, there will always be a bit of "chest pounding" when it comes to polishers.

Hell, even which snowblowers are the best can become a heated discussion (for us guys up north).

I hope you see my point.......

 

[2black1s]

I found this thread (linked below) and it, along with some of the comments in this thread, pretty much cover the info I was looking for. TTQ B4U gives a really thorough comparison of the two machines. Later in the thread the discussion turns more towards pad and polish choices, but the machine comparison aspects of the thread fulfilled my interests at this point in time. Thanks TTQ B4U and all that have replied here.

Rupes Mille vs 3401 - UPDATED Thoughts


EDIT: Here's another great thread I found for the Rupes...

I never liked gear driven polishers.

 

[2black1s]

2Black1s,

Get the either the beast or supa beast.

If you're a rotary polisher---Then these Flex polishers will feel tame to you. You'll do fine!
You won't know or feel the the difference in which way pads turns.

Worst case---you can sell the beast since they are discontinuing them.

Me--I'll go BEAST all the way!

And this is from a Rupes polisher guy!

Tom

And therein lies the problem that I foresee (the line I bolded).

When polishing a big flat panel, I can see where the rotational direction has very little or no effect other than which way the machine wants to walk. But when approaching edges or body lines is where I see the issue.

I have a habit, or what I see as a best practice, of never allowing (or at least minimizing as best I can) the pad to rotate "into an edge". I want only the side of the pad that is rotating "off the edge" in contact. In order to accomplish this the polisher must be tilted slightly. If the polisher is flat then both the "into" and "off of" sides of the pad are making contact with the edge and I want to avoid that wherever possible.

This is where the rotational direction comes into play. It dictates which way to tilt the polisher.

After all these years using a CW rotation polisher that action is natural to me without giving it much thought. I instinctively know which way to tilt the polisher. A polisher with a CCW rotation throws a wrench into that. I suspect that I would then have to "think" each time I approached an edge to keep my "instincts" in check. My instincts would tell me to tilt the polisher one way while the CCW rotation would dictate that I really need to tilt the other way. I just don't want to have to deal with that conflict.

Does that make sense?

This practice I describe was developed over many years of using, and learning with, rotary polishers. While it is not so critical with random orbitals, and some of those who learned with random orbitals may have not even given this practice much thought, it is still a practice I employ regardless of the polisher type. This practice is absolutely critical when using a rotary. And although I have never used a forced rotation orbital, I imagine the criticality of this practice to fall somewhere in between that of a rotary and a random orbital.

While I initially had no intention of discussing the "rotation" effects, or implications, beyond my desire for a CW rotating polisher in this thread, I guess it turned out to be inevitable. Actually, I do enjoy discussing the technical aspects of polishing.

Thanks for your perspective. Now you know where mine is coming from.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

'm not a FLEX guy nor an "any" guy, like most of you - I use what works best for me. That's it. In fact, I abhor anything to do with fanboyism

While I certainly respect this statement Mike, you must admit that it is much easier for you to use whatever works for you when you have hundreds of the very best at your fingertips at any given time.

Most of the rest of us have to make a decision on what to buy, and well there you have it.

You're quite correct and it is one of the perks of my job. And I get it. I completely understand the dilemma of trying to do research, gather information BEFORE getting your wallet out and making a purchase KNOWING that once you open that box - that baby is yours.

I get it.

And that's why I love the way my classes are structured. For those that can attend one of my classes - they get to do what I get to do and that is use a plethora of tools, pads and products and then make-up their mind.

Try before you buy


And I've always been thankful for my job here at Autogeek and my previous job at Meguiar's. I've worked hard to get to where I'm at but I never forget my roots and I'm forever thankful.

As for the fanboy's, I do agree to an extent when it becomes venomous. But just like Ford, GM, and Chrysler fans, there will always be a bit of "chest pounding" when it comes to polishers.

Hell, even which snowblowers are the best can become a heated discussion (for us guys up north).

I hope you see my point.......

I completely see your point.

Don't bother me if someone want's to be a fanboy for a particualar brand but that's simply not me. I choose function over form.


:cheers:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Here's the most important feature and also a benefit if trying to buff CLOSE to an edge or a component.

Due to the small 5mm orbit stroke of the Mille, (and also the Makita PO5000C), it's a much more precise tool in it's buffing pattern as far as it relates to getting the outer edge of the pad next to a body line or component - like a side mirror.

Its "Ghosting Image" or Ghosting Footprint" is smaller than the 8mm FLEX tools. And this can come in handy. That or just use a rotary.

Here's an article I wrote that discusses and shows what I've termed the ghosting footprint for any brand of orbital polisher, free spinning or gear driven.

The pictures use a 21mm to show this ghosting footprint because the LARGER measurement is simply easier to capture with a camera.


The ghosting footprint and the actual footprint - Long Stroke Free Spinning Orbital Polishers


When you look down at any orbital polisher - if you look carefully you'll see two perimeters rings... the outer perimeter ring is the ghosting footprint as there is not 100% pad contact 100% of the time.

The inner perimeter ring is the actual footprint and there is 100% of pad contact 100% of the time.

I'm not very good in PS so here's the best I could do using the images already in the book.

It's difficult explain this easily with a keyboard. It's much easier to explain in person.

If anyone is interested - perhaps I can show and explain during our LIVE Detailing Class today?