How to tell if ceramic coating is failing (regular toppers)

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rover137

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Hi all

I am about to do my first ceramic coating and wondering how you tell if your coating is failing if you regularly use toppers?

Planning on using CarPro Elixir with most (if not all) washes as a drying aid to also assist with lubrication.

If you always have an additional layer of protection on top of your coating - how do you tell if it is failing or not?
 
rover137 said:
Hi all

I am about to do my first ceramic coating and wondering how you tell if your coating is failing if you regularly use toppers?

Planning on using CarPro Elixir with most (if not all) washes as a drying aid to also assist with lubrication.

If you always have an additional layer of protection on top of your coating - how do you tell if it is failing or not?
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If you really want to know if your base coating is failing, don't top it.
 
And you may still see beading change when the coating is failing a lot. The toppers may bead differently when the base coating is no longer being a good anchor. But only people who stare at water beads often may notice this type of difference.
 
Yeah, i was thinking basically what you have both suggested - either don't top, or pay very close attention to the water beading.

I would think most people would top/maintain with some sort of product?

I guess you could also stop topping towards the end of a coatings suggested life cycle and monitor for water beading?
 
rover137 said:
Yeah, i was thinking basically what you have both suggested - either don't top, or pay very close attention to the water beading.

I would think most people would top/maintain with some sort of product?

I guess you could also stop topping towards the end of a coatings suggested life cycle and monitor for water beading?
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Some top, some don’t. Some want the coating so that dont have to touch the car or so they can enjoy the coating stand-alone. Others can’t stop touching the car or want to play with new products. It’s a preference really, the car is protected either way.

I think if you want to top regularly but want to monitor the coating life, your idea about slowing down and/or ending the toppers near the end of the life cycle is the most efficient way to have the best of both worlds. And you can use a soap like Reset or even a coating prep wash near the end of the lifecycle to help remove remnants of the topper and bring the coating to it’s natural state to see where it’s really at.
 
Rsurfer said:
If you really want to know if your base coating is failing, don't top it.
Click to expand...

This is really the only answer.

When I used CanCoat I topped it about every 4~6 weeks with Cure. 12 Months later it was still going strong from a water beading/sheeting perspective; that's TWICE the normal manufacturer listed lifespan of CanCoat. I'm pretty sure I could have gone much longer if I kept applying Cure.

Many of the toppers are pretty durable in their own right. If they are applied at regular intervals before they start to fail, you could theoretically go forever before the coating really started to fail. Same theory applies for any LSP. If you keep topping with a highly durable product, the LSP under it will probably degrade at a much slower rate.
 
Desertnate said:
This is really the only answer.

When I used CanCoat I topped it about every 4~6 weeks with Cure. 12 Months later it was still going strong from a water beading/sheeting perspective; that's TWICE the normal manufacturer listed lifespan of CanCoat. I'm pretty sure I could have gone much longer if I kept applying Cure.

Many of the toppers are pretty durable in their own right. If they are applied at regular intervals before they start to fail, you could theoretically go forever before the coating really started to fail. Same theory applies for any LSP. If you keep topping with a highly durable product, the LSP under it will probably degrade at a much slower rate.
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Did you use anything in-between CanCoat as a drying aid? Yeah, that is the thing i am trying to understand. I have done a lot of research and everyone comments on the durability and beading of a coating, but i'm wondering how does someone actually know the coating is either holding up, or producing the beads if they top if often.
 
acuRAS82 said:
Some top, some don’t. Some want the coating so that dont have to touch the car or so they can enjoy the coating stand-alone. Others can’t stop touching the car or want to play with new products. It’s a preference really, the car is protected either way.

I think if you want to top regularly but want to monitor the coating life, your idea about slowing down and/or ending the toppers near the end of the life cycle is the most efficient way to have the best of both worlds. And you can use a soap like Reset or even a coating prep wash near the end of the lifecycle to help remove remnants of the topper and bring the coating to it’s natural state to see where it’s really at.
Click to expand...


I think i am one of those people who likes to play with their paint. For me, topping is more about adding slickness, gloss as well as having a drying aid to increase lubrication.

I might stop topping at the end of the suggested life cycle of the coating, give it a good wash and see what the coating is doing. It is either that or don't top i guess.
 
rover137 said:
Did you use anything in-between CanCoat as a drying aid? Yeah, that is the thing i am trying to understand. I have done a lot of research and everyone comments on the durability and beading of a coating, but i'm wondering how does someone actually know the coating is either holding up, or producing the beads if they top if often.
Click to expand...

I use Ech2O after each wash to catch any water spots I might have missed while drying. Since it's a waterless wash which can work as a QD spray (like I use it) I really don't think it has much in the way of protective products and if it does, I really doubt it would last more than a few days/week. I used it on every coating I've tried, to include CanCoat. Cure was really my first experience using any type of topper.

If you are consistently using a durable topper I don't think you'd ever really know if the behavior you see is the topper or the coating. The best bet would be to stop using the topper for a couple months and see how things look/behave.
 
rover137 said:
Hi all

I am about to do my first ceramic coating and wondering how you tell if your coating is failing if you regularly use toppers?

Planning on using CarPro Elixir with most (if not all) washes as a drying aid to also assist with lubrication.

If you always have an additional layer of protection on top of your coating - how do you tell if it is failing or not?
Click to expand...


Another option, is to do a 50/50. This will give you a good comparison on how both products are doing.
 
Might sound kinda goofy but when a coating is reaching end-of-life ya just kinda 'know' that something isn't quite right. Toppers seem slightly less effective, fall off a bit w regards to longevity.

Stuff just doesn't seem as good as it was when viable; hard to quantify i guess but overall less pleasing...a feeling that your regular maintenance regimen isn't working as well anymore and since maintenance hasn't changed, then it has to be something else.
 
Yeah, all good points. I will continue with using my topper as planned until about 2-3 months before the suggested life of the coating and check its 'health'. A chemical decon is also a way to check in on the health yeah?

What do you mean by 50/50?

I guess 'topping' less regularly is another way - so that when you perform a maintenance wash before your next top you have likely removed the topper and are just seeing the raw coating properties. I am planning on using Elixir as a drying aid weekly- which will likely never result in maintenance washes revealing the coating on its own as Elixir (lasts 4 weeks) will always be there.

Anyone here ever cut Elixir 1:1 with any success?
 
I wouldn’t worry too much about it. Enjoy the weekly maintenance regiment with the occasional chemical decontamination.

You will know when it’s time to polish and re-coat as you will get those pesky love marks.

As budget mentioned the topper won’t be as effective once the coating comes to its end of life.

Don’t overthink it. Wash, top and enjoy.
 
rover137
What do you mean by 50/50? Anyone here ever cut Elixir 1:1 with any success?


Top half your hood and leave the other half alone, or top the hood and leave the roof alone. Look at the water behavior on both panels.

Since your using Elixir as a drying aid, why cut it more?
 
The Guz said:
I wouldn’t worry too much about it. Enjoy the weekly maintenance regiment with the occasional chemical decontamination.

You will know when it’s time to polish and re-coat as you will get those pesky love marks.

As budget mentioned the topper won’t be as effective once the coating comes to its end of life.

Don’t overthink it. Wash, top and enjoy.
Click to expand...

Also good advice - it's easy to overthink these things I guess.

Good point about the love marks - they will happen with my soft black paint and another reason i am going the 'Lite' coating route.
 
Rsurfer said:
rover137
What do you mean by 50/50? Anyone here ever cut Elixir 1:1 with any success?


Top half your hood and leave the other half alone, or top the hood and leave the roof alone. Look at the water behavior on both panels.

Since your using Elixir as a drying aid, why cut it more?
Click to expand...

I thought that is what you meant re 50/50. I might just do an experiment like this - maybe on the roof as it is more so out of site to me than the bonnet (hood).

Cost reasons mainly. I will be coating both our cars - while I wash mine weekly (it gets more love), the other gets washed maybe 1-2 times a month depending on time. Not a huge difference in cost in the grand scheme of things really considering how much I have sunk into this hobby in such a short amount of time!
 
BudgetPlan1 said:
Might sound kinda goofy but when a coating is reaching end-of-life ya just kinda 'know' that something isn't quite right. Toppers seem slightly less effective, fall off a bit w regards to longevity.

Stuff just doesn't seem as good as it was when viable; hard to quantify i guess but overall less pleasing...a feeling that your regular maintenance regimen isn't working as well anymore and since maintenance hasn't changed, then it has to be something else.
Click to expand...

To a degree that makes sense but I’m not sure I buy that. I think with you it is more psychological where the coating is actually still doing just fine but you’ve reached your limit of not putting another coating on the car so you feel you have to do something. :D
 
dgage said:
To a degree that makes sense but I’m not sure I buy that. I think with you it is more psychological where the coating is actually still doing just fine but you’ve reached your limit of not putting another coating on the car so you feel you have to do something. :D
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:lol: A year or 2 ago, perhaps but I'm getting to the point where personal cars won't need anything for a while. 2 are (will be) PPF'd, wife's daily was done in 2019 (coating) and with how little that car drives, 3 more years is likely. And my daily might not be able to take any more; since I got in in June of 2017 it's had 22ple for 2 months, Kamikaze for 2 years, SPS Graphene for 1 year, PA Primer + Cosmic Spritz for 3 months and now is half Kamikaze, half Ethos Graphene. Might respray the hood this Summer though as there ain't enough Dr Colorchip on the planet to fix what's happened to it over the last 65k miles.

As long as the hood is such a mess, really have no interest in the car as far as coating it w/ something else goes...it's now essentially a 'transportational screwdriver'...a mere tool/utility item.
 
BudgetPlan1 said:
:lol: A year or 2 ago, perhaps but I'm getting to the point where personal cars won't need anything for a while. 2 are (will be) PPF'd, wife's daily was done in 2019 (coating) and with how little that car drives, 3 more years is likely. And my daily might not be able to take any more; since I got in in June of 2017 it's had 22ple for 2 months, Kamikaze for 2 years, SPS Graphene for 1 year, PA Primer + Cosmic Spritz for 3 months and now is half Kamikaze, half Ethos Graphene. Might respray the hood this Summer though as there ain't enough Dr Colorchip on the planet to fix what's happened to it over the last 65k miles.

As long as the hood is such a mess, really have no interest in the car as far as coating it w/ something else goes...it's now essentially a 'transportational screwdriver'...a mere tool/utility item.
Click to expand...

Gasp! Say it ain’t so, Joe.....


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