Nissan 400Z

[bfielder32087]

I was wondering if it would be significantly changed in the reborn version. Maybe the first electric Acura?

That's kind of my guess. I have a feeling it won't be as exciting as most people are hoping so, BUT fingers crossed that it is something similar to what it once was.

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[Desertnate]

For me, I find the styling of the 400Z is lacking in cohesion.

The softer, more organic design elements clash with the straighter, squarer lines at the rear.

As I mentioned in the opening post, the styling is growing on me but, like the Supra, the design doesn't quite gel.

Agree. I wonder if this is a Japanese design style. Many of their car designs are a little odd like that. One thing I've noticed is I find the Supra much better looking in person. Maybe this will be the case too.

As for the 400Z using a carry over platform and re-purposed engine, I guess those sentiments can be leveled at the Mustang, Camaro and Dodge twins. The S550 Mustang uses a evolved S197 platform, the Camaro borrowed an existing Cadillac base and the Dodges use an ancient Daimler platform.

I don't have issues with platforms being carried over, but in the examples you listed I think the Challenger/Charger are the only ones on a platform older than the Z car's. I recently rode in a Charger and it was very obvious the car was based on a 30-year old Mercedes platform that dated back to the days in Mercedes owning Cyrystler/Dodge.

Having said all that, I love the fact these type of cars are still available, I'm not ready for an electric car just yet.[/QUOTE]

Ditto. I'd welcome an electric sports car if they can make it fun to drive, but no one builds anything like that. Then there is the whole issue with lack of places to charge them....

On a more positive note, there are two Tesla Model 3 owners which have been attending our local SCCA autocross events. They are WICKED fast in autocross and destroy even the best drivers in their purpose built Miatas.

Right now the M2 is the small tossable wonder to beat. I'd own that before the 400. Love the supra too.

The M2 would certainly be more practical. I test drove an M2 Competition not long after they hit the market and even two years later, I still can't get the car out of my mind. It was brilliant to drive despite being shockingly heavy for it's size. I won't even casually test drive a Supra for the same reason.

I was wondering if it would be significantly changed in the reborn version. Maybe the first electric Acura?

Might be, but to do that and be a successful Integra re-boot would require a bespoke chassis if they want to do it right. Honda doesn't have an all electric car right now to build from. Slapping a bunch of batteries in a Civic SI or Type R would be a disaster from a dynamics stand point. They could make it a hybrid like the NSX. You could base the car off any of the current Honda platforms which are all FWD, and have the gas engine power the front axel and put an electric motor (or two) to drive the rear. Put the batteries in the back to give it better weight balance and it could be a pretty fun platform. Be much lighter than their SH-AWD system.

Or they could just go with the old Integra recipe of being a light, tossable coupe with a magical high-revving engine.

 

[Coatingsarecrack]

I had the same engine with a basic piggy back tune. It was okay. Has potential. An Alpha tune and downpipes out a 4k lb car into the mid to low 11s.

Downside is reliablity. The 3.0 isn't. I never had problems but many are. Tiny turbos and belt issues plaqgue them.

Right now the M2 is the small tossable wonder to beat. I'd own that before the 400. Love the supra too.

Nissan will sell this but better options can be had.

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The Z is actually in a different class.... at least price wise if leaks are to be believed.

It suppose to start at around 35k. The base supra starts at 8k more. And thats with 145 HP less and i believe 55lb torque.

If you add the sport and technology pack (Zst) it comes in around 10k less than a comparable base v6 Supra with comparable features.

And compared to BMW it’s more in line with the 2 series price, not the M2.

Again these are not official but source was right about a couple of other things.
If pricing is right, this is a great value for the performance.

If comparing car to car (price not a factor) I would also take both of those cars.

My 2003 350z convertible was my first dream car I got to own. Loved it so much when it got wrecked I bought a convertible G37 in-same color to follow up.



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[Klasse Act]

Since we're talking price here, let me throw a monkey wrench into the mix The new 86, add a supercharger and BBK and call it a day

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[Klasse Act]

I hope Nissan nails this with fit and finish and ups the quality because they NEED it! When you look up thr term "also ran" Nissan comes up. Do you see alot of them on the road, yes but l bet it'd favorable financing. I also see alot of them looking bad after a couple years. I'd like to see a revamp of the entire line up

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[Desertnate]

Since we're talking price here, let me throw a monkey wrench into the mix The new 86, add a supercharger and BBK and call it a day

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I agree somewhat on the 86/BRZ being the answer, but I'll parry your monkey wrench with a screwdriver

I say take the new 86/BRZ but DON'T put any forced induction under the hood, skip the BBK, and take the savings to buy some lighter/wider wheels and some sticky summer tires!

The need for more power is debatable now that the new 2.4L engine has eliminated the infamous torque dip. I recently test drove a ND2 Miata with the new engine and even 180hp in a sub-3K lbs car with a nice fat torque curve is properly quick and a hoot to drive. I imagine the BRZ with 228hp in a similar weight vehicle would be just as fun.

A BBK might be needed for extended track sessions or racing to deal with the heat, but for normal enthusiast use and even autocross, the existing brakes are probably just fine due to the car being so light. Just throw on some better pads.

Lately I'm starting to realize and truly appreciate the beauty of driving a slow car fast vs a fast car slow. I currently own a pretty fast car, but big power = big weight and driving a fast car slow is a real snooze fest. Flogging a lower powered light car is a ton of fun.

The Z car here, Supra, M2, Z4, and maybe the higher trim Cayman/Boxters like GTS and GT4 occupy a strange in-between land that isn't quite a fire-breathing Coupe like a Mustang GT/Camaro SS/M4 but too heavy and powerful to be in the same class as the BRZ/86, Miata, Caymann/Boxter.

 

[bfielder32087]

I agree somewhat on the 86/BRZ being the answer, but I'll parry your monkey wrench with a screwdriver

I say take the new 86/BRZ but DON'T put any forced induction under the hood, skip the BBK, and take the savings to buy some lighter/wider wheels and some sticky summer tires!

The need for more power is debatable now that the new 2.4L engine has eliminated the infamous torque dip. I recently test drove a ND2 Miata with the new engine and even 180hp in a sub-3K lbs car with a nice fat torque curve is properly quick and a hoot to drive. I imagine the BRZ with 228hp in a similar weight vehicle would be just as fun.

A BBK might be needed for extended track sessions or racing to deal with the heat, but for normal enthusiast use and even autocross, the existing brakes are probably just fine due to the car being so light. Just throw on some better pads.

Lately I'm starting to realize and truly appreciate the beauty of driving a slow car fast vs a fast car slow. I currently own a pretty fast car, but big power = big weight and driving a fast car slow is a real snooze fest. Flogging a lower powered light car is a ton of fun.

The Z car here, Supra, M2, Z4, and maybe the higher trim Cayman/Boxters like GTS and GT4 occupy a strange in-between land that isn't quite a fire-breathing Coupe like a Mustang GT/Camaro SS/M4 but too heavy and powerful to be in the same class as the BRZ/86, Miata, Caymann/Boxter.

The upper trim of the 86 comes with PS4S tires so they addressed that which is great.

I don't know this to be true or not but according to Matt Farah anyways the torque is vastly improved but apparently that torque dip does still exist.

As far as brakes I agree, no real need for a BBK just pads and fluid and you should be set in about 99% of applicarions.

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[Kamakaz1961]

The Supra is a Re-Badged BMW and has NO Japanese Soul! The new Nissan Z will. The Supra has a recall...guess who's taking care of the recall...BMW.

Additionally, the BMW Supra has no 6-Speed manual. I had a 2007 Infiniti G35 with the 6 Speed manual and it was fun to drive.

Until Toyota make a Japanese Supra, Nissan 400z for me.

 

[Klasse Act]

The Supra is a Re-Badged BMW and has NO Japanese Soul! The new Nissan Z will. The Supra has a recall...guess who's taking care of the recall...BMW.

Additionally, the BMW Supra has no 6-Speed manual. I had a 2007 Infiniti G35 with the 6 Speed manual and it was fun to drive.

Until Toyota make a Japanese Supra, Nissan 400z for me.

There's no arguing any of this

I didn't like the Supra in pics and even at the Chicago Auto Show in 2019 up on the stand but when I saw it in person, amongst other cars....O M G I really have a thing for that car...hips, hips and hips

As far as the BMW-ness, well that's a mixed bag there but the perf is there for the taking and although missing the desirable 3rd pedal that auto is supposed to be REALLY quick shifting.

I'm looking forward to seeing the Z and 86 inperson ASAP

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[Klasse Act]

Btw...why didn't they use the 400Z name

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[bfielder32087]

Btw...why didn't they use the 400Z name

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The 240z had a 2.4 liter the 260z had a 2.6 liter etc etc.... The new Z has a 3 liter. They just made the decision not to continue the name for naming sake I guess. Makes sense for the most part.

The Germans obviously don't care as BMW and Mercedes number designations don't mean anything anymore.

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[Coatingsarecrack]

Since we're talking price here, let me throw a monkey wrench into the mix The new 86, add a supercharger and BBK and call it a day

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Probably run about the same as a base model Z. Would have more HP and torque and still retain factory warranty.


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[Klasse Act]

Probably run about the same as a base model Z. Would have more HP and torque and still retain factory warranty.


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Smaller/lighter = more fun to drive but your obviously right about warranty

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[Desertnate]

I don't know this to be true or not but according to Matt Farah anyways the torque is vastly improved but apparently that torque dip does still exist.

Based on the reviews I've seen and read from multiple places to include Jason Cammisa (MotorTrend and now Hagerty) and an old friend of mine at Everyday Driver, this has been the consensus as well. Cammisa mentioned it was there, but barely noticeable because it didn't destroy the torque curve like the old engine. The Everyday Driver guys seemed to think it was totally gone, or at least not noticeable enough to talk about. One of them owned an FRS for 5~6 years and they continually raved about how much better the engine was from the old car and really solved the only issue which kept the Toyobaru twins from being a truly great car.

I find this encouraging because the horrible torque curve in the old car would leave the engine napping if you tried to accelerate out of a slow second-gear corner.

The Supra is a Re-Badged BMW and has NO Japanese Soul! The new Nissan Z will. The Supra has a recall...guess who's taking care of the recall...BMW.

Additionally, the BMW Supra has no 6-Speed manual. I had a 2007 Infiniti G35 with the 6 Speed manual and it was fun to drive.

Until Toyota make a Japanese Supra, Nissan 400z for me.

I guess I'm one of those people who can't care less where a car comes from and takes it as a sum of its parts to decide whether it's a good car. I've owned vehicles from all three major market areas (US, German, Japanese). I find the personality of the car comes from the vehicle itself, not the badging. Heck you could slap a Lada or Trabant badge on the car and call it the Oatmeal Express and I'd still drive the snot out of it. Is it fun to drive? Yes? Great. Give me the keys.

Today, the B58 engine really has no peer and is absolutely the best 6-cyclinder engine I've ever driven.

Everyone I've know who have owned Nissan's, to include a co-worker who owned a 370, have sworn off the brand and will never buy another one. Too many quality short cuts and reliability issues. Their experiences made my VW's and BMW's seem like Toyotas. This fact alone gives me pause when looking at the Z.

I didn't like the Supra in pics and even at the Chicago Auto Show in 2019 up on the stand but when I saw it in person, amongst other cars....O M G I really have a thing for that car...hips, hips and hips

As far as the BMW-ness, well that's a mixed bag there but the perf is there for the taking and although missing the desirable 3rd pedal that auto is supposed to be REALLY quick shifting.

I'm looking forward to seeing the Z and 86 inperson ASAP

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I was like you with the Supra at first. I thought is looked like a lumpy mess, but the first time I say a silver one on the road, it snapped my head around (and led to me being yelled at by my wife in the passenger seat). I don't see one very often, but it grabs my attention every time I see one. I'm not sure the Z will have the same presence, but I'll wait until I can see one in person.

The whole manual issue is probably the one hang-up I have with the Supra. I've never owned a daily driver that ISN'T a manual. I've never driven an auto/dual clutch transmission in a performance setting. The ZF they are using in the Supra (I drove a version with near-identical programmed version in an M340) is amazing for an auto. I've driven the dual clutch in an S3 and it was quite good too. I hear the PDK from Porsche is astounding. However, I'm afraid if my feet aren't doing the pedal "dance" even if it makes me slower in some settings, it will leave me bored and detract from the whole experience of driving a great car...no matter what it is.

 

[Desertnate]

The 240z had a 2.4 liter the 260z had a 2.6 liter etc etc.... The new Z has a 3 liter. They just made the decision not to continue the name for naming sake I guess. Makes sense for the most part.

The Germans obviously don't care as BMW and Mercedes number designations don't mean anything anymore.

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Agree. You get silliness like the Mercedes C300 has a 2.0L, the BMW 330 has a 2.0L, and the BMW M340 has a 3.0L.... At least Mercedes got smart with their AMG cars. The "43" is the lower output version, the "63" is the higher output version, and the "63 S" is the uber version of the car regardless of what is under the hood. I don't know about Mercedes, but the BMW models haven't matched the engine size for over 20 years. My '99 323i had a 2.5L under the hood, but so did the 330 at that time. The engine difference was power output and couple other minor tweaks.

Porsche has tried to keep things consistant, but it backfired on them a bit. Every ICE car they build is now turbocharged, but there is actually a trim level across their line which is the "Turbo" and the "Turbo S" while the lower levels are the base, S, and GTS. The one I find hilarious is the Taycan Turbo and Taycan Turbo S...it's an electric car.

 

[Klasse Act]

...even sunglasses were TURBO back in the 80's! TURBO was everywhere back then!

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[Desertnate]

YES! And the "turbo" button on the front of your pre-windows PC. Still makes me laugh even though my computer in college had one.

 

[Klasse Act]

Scotty from the 80's...turbo glasses for sure

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[Klasse Act]

"THE" TURBO

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[Klasse Act]

Pure C H E E S E

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