Having trouble with hard black paint

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ToroInu

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Hello All,

I’m doing a few test spots on my 2019 Audi and I’m having a hard time finishing it.

Machine used: g9/g8
Pads used: Urofiber 50/50, griots garage boss (mf, orange, yellow)
Products used: sonax cutmax, Koch chemie final cut ( equivalent to sonax perfect finish ), menzerna 3800
Passes/technique: 3 passes crosshatch ( 3 vertical and 3 horizontal passes )
Speed: 3-4 on compound , 5-6 on follow up polishing
Pressure: Thumb
Test spot: Driver door, rear Quarter panel

Combos used:
1.MF + Cutmax followed with Orange + Koch chemie
2.MF + cutmax followed with yellow + menzerna
3.Orange + cutmax followed with yellow + menzerna
4.Urofiber + Cutmax followed with yellow + menzerna
5.Urofiber + Koch chemie followed with menzerna


I’ve found that combo 1 or 4 sometimes was able to finish certain test spots the best. However, if I tried to do a seperate test spot with the exact same combo, it didn’t have same results and would have results of the picture attached

I dont think its wipe off causing swirls/marring because I would test by only wiping vertical but the imperfections would still be in a form of a sweeping motion. Anyone have any suggestions/recommendations?

Attached is a picture of the imperfections I’m having a hard time getting rid of.
51756903522_b344309f79_z.jpg
 
The pros will be here shortly, you'll be in good hands for sure

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 
Are you sure that little polisher is spinning?
 
You need to put a black/red line on 1 side of your backing plate or pads so you can clearly see when they’re spinning. If the polisher is just oscillating it won’t correct.

How to Monitor Pad Rotation? Mark Your Buffing Pads

I can’t imagine the UroFiber with Cutmax not correcting well. I haven’t used the UroFiber but I use the Rupes Coarse Blue Wool often with Cutmax and it can handle some correction while finishing well.
 
dgage said:
You need to put a black/red line on 1 side of your backing plate or pads so you can clearly see when they’re spinning. If the polisher is just oscillating it won’t correct.

How to Monitor Pad Rotation? Mark Your Buffing Pads

I can’t imagine the UroFiber with Cutmax not correcting well. I haven’t used the UroFiber but I use the Rupes Coarse Blue Wool often with Cutmax and it can handle some correction while finishing well.
Click to expand...

Just added the markers. Pad is 100% spinning. Same results.

I do notice that the swirls/imperfections always change. These are not the initial imperfections as all initial swirls were removed. It seems like every time I perform a pass the imperfections change. Initial wipe off seems good, but once I do an IPA wipe, the swirls appear. Again I tested to see if its my MF cloths causing marring but they dont follow the direction of the wipe.
 
what is the temperature in the working area

Also what was the paint pre prep before polishing?
 
Bosko said:
what is the temperature in the working area

Also what was the paint pre prep before polishing?
Click to expand...

id say 45-50 degree in my garage. Full strip wash + clay bar.

Note: Car was ceramic coated with CSL 5 months ago with the same strip wash + clay bar process and I ran into the same issues as now. Back then I only had megs ultimate and orange pad and got the same results before giving up and coating it. Finally decided to redo the coating and paint work since my bumper was repainted and needs a new coating.
 
I think the G8 isn't enough of a machine to overcome your issue...and IMO that is where your problem lies

I have a G 8 so I'm familiar with it's down falls, it is a small are detail machine, it will fall short in most instances trying to cover large areas
 
Bosko said:
I think the G8 isn't enough of a machine to overcome your issue...and IMO that is where your problem lies

I have a G 8 so I'm familiar with it's down falls, it is a small are detail machine, it will fall short in most instances trying to cover large areas
Click to expand...

I own a G9 as well, but Im using the G8 just to do test spots since I have more variety of pads but once I find the proper pad combo, ill buy them for my G9. During my first attempt mentioned earlier, it was done with the G9 with Meg ultimate + orange pad with same results.
 
Hopefully some others can pin it down, I can't think of any other reason.

you changed polishers.....pads........creams....head scratcher:confused:
 
Bosko said:
Hopefully some others can pin it down, I can't think of any other reason.

you changed polishers.....pads........creams....head scratcher:confused:
Click to expand...

Yeah its definitely a head scratcher. All the creams/pads I have should be able to finish down nicely but no luck
 
I also have a G8 for small areas my main flex polisher will not get to. It is ok for small areas but it is easy to get pad stall with the 3 inch rupes pads I am using. Some of it I am sure is technique but I have tried it on 2 cars and boat. Hard for me to get alot of paint correction done. Need your G9 to make the difference.
 
msharpe785 said:
I also have a G8 for small areas my main flex polisher will not get to. It is ok for small areas but it is easy to get pad stall with the 3 inch rupes pads I am using. Some of it I am sure is technique but I have tried it on 2 cars and boat. Hard for me to get alot of paint correction done. Need your G9 to make the difference.
Click to expand...

So are you saying when the G8 stalls, it creates those marring? Again, I have the G9, im only using the G8 to test pad/product combo and is not my plan to correct the entire panel.

Tomorrow ill bring out the G9 with a 6in MF to see results but im doubtful it'll do anything since ive used the G9 with orange + meg ultimate with those same marring marks. I want to say that the marring changes between each completed pass. The marring in the picture seems like its being caused after each pass.
 
I am not familiar with those two polishers as I have never used them. I see the speeds you are using. You may want to consider running a higher speed with compound and typically lower speed during polishing. You may also want to play around with your arm speed.

I don't understand pressure: Thumb.

You may not be dealing with hard paint but rather soft paint. It also looks like towel marring as it seems you are doing an IPA wipe which does not have the best lubrication.
 
The Guz said:
I am not familiar with those two polishers as I have never used them. I see the speeds you are using. You may want to consider running a higher speed with compound and typically lower speed during polishing. You may also want to play around with your arm speed.

I don't understand pressure: Thumb.

You may not be dealing with hard paint but rather soft paint. It also looks like towel marring as it seems you are doing an IPA wipe which does not have the best lubrication.
Click to expand...

I've always thought you go slower machine speed with compound and faster for polish. As for arm speed, I typically go slower for compounding and a bit faster for polishing. But i'll definitely switch those up tomorrow.

Pressure thumb mean im just using the strength of my thumb to push down on the polisher.

If it was soft paint, wouldn't the menzerna 3800 finish the job?

If it was towel marring, wouldn't it be in the direction of the wipe? After polishing, I would use a microfiber towel to wipe off the residue, then ill follow it with an IPA wipe. I would have to perform the IPA wipe before apply the ceramic coat so if the IPA wa the culprit, how do I get around to ceramic coating without IPA wipe?. However, I did test this by only wiping vertically, but I still see the imperfections horizontally.
 
ToroInu said:
I've always thought you go slower machine speed with compound and faster for polish. As for arm speed, I typically go slower for compounding and a bit faster for polishing. But i'll definitely switch those up tomorrow.

Pressure thumb mean im just using the strength of my thumb to push down on the polisher.

If it was soft paint, wouldn't the menzerna 3800 finish the job?

If it was towel marring, wouldn't it be in the direction of the wipe? After polishing, I would use a microfiber towel to wipe off the residue, then ill follow it with an IPA wipe. I would have to perform the IPA wipe before apply the ceramic coat so if the IPA wa the culprit, how do I get around to ceramic coating without IPA wipe?. However, I did test this by only wiping vertically, but I still see the imperfections horizontally.
Click to expand...

Use a dedicated panel wipe like CarPro Eraser, Gyeon prep.

Maybe try differnent products? So far eveeything i’ve thrown at the boss creams they have handled with no issues.

I ‘ve only done American, Japanese and Korean cars though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Coatingsarecrack said:
Use a dedicated panel wipe like CarPro Eraser, Gyeon prep.

Maybe try differnent products? So far eveeything i’ve thrown at the boss creams they have handled with no issues.

I ‘ve only done American, Japanese and Korean cars though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I use Gyeon prep as my IPA wipe. I dont think its the products im thinking its maybe my technique.. ill try what Guz said about changing speeds and arm.

By chance do the imperfections look like it can be caused by "dry buffing"? I've been googling possibilities and ran into that topic. Looking back, I do recall the outer ring of my pads having little product. However, on the panel, I can clearly see the product being worked in circular motion.
 
ToroInu said:
I've always thought you go slower machine speed with compound and faster for polish. As for arm speed, I typically go slower for compounding and a bit faster for polishing. But i'll definitely switch those up tomorrow.

Pressure thumb mean im just using the strength of my thumb to push down on the polisher.

If it was soft paint, wouldn't the menzerna 3800 finish the job?

If it was towel marring, wouldn't it be in the direction of the wipe? After polishing, I would use a microfiber towel to wipe off the residue, then ill follow it with an IPA wipe. I would have to perform the IPA wipe before apply the ceramic coat so if the IPA wa the culprit, how do I get around to ceramic coating without IPA wipe?. However, I did test this by only wiping vertically, but I still see the imperfections horizontally.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. Soft paint can be tricky to finish out. In some cases yes a fine finishing polish can do it and in some cases soft paints like a stiffer pad. Also that menzerna polish is loaded with oils and it would not be my first choice prior to coating.

The other option is a primer polish like the Dr. Beasley's surface primer's, Gyeon Primer, CarPro Essence which finish out great on soft paints.

Mike Phillips is no longer with Autogeek but there is a few videos on the autoggek youtube channel with Mike providing how to's and tips.
 
Can you put a masking tape line straight through the marring and then do a test of extremes?

One side try aggressive and the other go with fine polish and finish pads(black.red).

I'm not sure you have that old ceramic coating totally removed, this might help you see what each method is doing right on a HARD line so you know what direction to move.
how old are the pads?...you mentioned that your temps are 45-50....that is on the cold side.....how were they when you had the issue the first time?
 
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