Your thoughts on vehicle service maintenance

[vaca22]

Sometime last year I took the wife's car for an oil change at the dealer. They of course pitched me the "15,000 service" for $199.00. I'm not the kind of guy that just parts with $200 easily, so I said I would have to schedule that sometime in the future. They provided me a breakdown on a chart of what that service included, which I don't remember off the top of my head.

I just checked Mazda's site and they state the following for 15k service:

• Oil change
• Filter change
• Tire rotation
• Safety inspection
• Visual inspection of brakes, belts, hoses, and fluids

So really this is essentially the exact same service as the first oil change around 7,500 miles, but more than 2x the price. There didn't seem to be a need to do anything special to warrant the $200. One thing Mazda did do was provide me a link to a VIDEO of the service rep doing the checks in and around the car, which was very interesting and neat, however I have to imagine that providing such a service costs some kind of money, and the dealer is passing that down to me in the form of a $200 15k mile service.

I visited a trusted mechanic up the street from me. He's been in business for over 30 years, doesn't advertise, never beats around the bush. He's worked on replacing radiators, thermostats, suspension components, and brakes for me in the past. I asked him about the 15k service...

His response was basically cars these days don't really need service intervals so frequently. He's all about making sure the oil gets changes frequently. According to him, most of the time you don't need much in the way of service until 60k or 75k aside from wear-and-tear stuff like tires and brake pads.

Air filters and cabin air filters I can easily replace myself. I can top off fluids. I can get oil changes (they've gotten expensive for fully synthetic!) for less than at the dealer.

Just wondering what your thoughts are on your vehicles service. I do not have an issue with anyone who wants to take their car in regularly to their dealer for their suggested service intervals and oil changes. I used to do that religiously myself. I'm just trying to be a little more practical I suppose.

 

[Bill D]

I am not a handy person but I learned to do oil changes myself and have been doing so for over 20 years. That way I know exactly what oil is going in my car and I skip the inconvenience and bs of a dealer. When my car needs real work done I’ll take it to a private mechanic who understands how anal I am about my cars

 

[Silly Rabbit]

Dealerships are all about the bottom line and profit. This is another profit generator.

 

[Bosko]

IMO.....any new car doesn't need any service except oil changes/tire rotation for the first 50,000 miles.

Also.....why is the car. not still under factory warranty at 15,000 miles?...almost all cars first service is free

 

[Bill D]

With my car it has under 15k miles but is too old now for a warranty to remain in effect.

 

[PA DETAILER]

Agree. I am at 42K and dealer has only done oil changes/tire rotations. During one of them, he caught the rear brake pads/rotors needing replaced. I was still under the 3/36 at the time, so only paid for the pads. As luck would have it, i have a good dealer i can trust.

 

[oneheadlite]

Technician by trade, been doing it for 22 years. Cut my teeth as fulltime tech at the dealer for 10 years, have been at a specialized (2 make only) independent since. (Left the dealership as it was turning into strictly being a big money machine, no longer about providing the kind of service I feel people deserve).

Like so many things, there's not a catch-all answer there as far as "nothing until 60-75K". It all depends on what the maintenance schedule is for your car.

Some cars may need spark plugs at 100k per the book, but others are due at 30K. Air filters seem on average 30-55k. Cabin filters are sometimes recommended by mileage (every 20k), sometimes by time (every 2 years with the brake fluid flush). Some cars are to get transmission fluid changed (legitimately) every 40k, some cars are "lifetime".


What I will say from my experience is:

Change your oil every 5k, even with synthetic (more often if you're a chronic short-tripper). It's not a matter of the oil breaking down, it's a matter of all the byproducts that build up in the oil by way of internal combustion/wear parts. I don't care if BMW says you can go 13k, or 15k, or I've seen as high as 24K till the next oil change - the cars Don't Like It.

Don't go to rapid oil places. Often you can have your oil changed by someone actually familiar with your car for less (example: We're on average $10-20 less than receipts people have shown me from rapid oil change places, and our oil filters aren't made from recycled kleenex). And I've seen waaay more bad things than good from rapid oil places (I once drained 22 liters of oil from a V8 M3 that they just couldn't figure out how to properly drain and set the level on. They tried 3 times... Capacity is around 9 liters... :doh: ).
Quick lube places will also too often will say you need maintenance x/y/z simply because they're on commission for selling those fluids/etc.

Use a quality oil filter, and I don't mean Napa Gold. I see sooooo many cheap oil filters (from at home DIY'rs as well as other shops that apparently don't know better) where they've got garbage quality o-rings that pour oil when it's cold out, or the filter media is so poor the filter collapses down on itself (insert style filter, I can only imagine the spin on filter's doing the same thing inside). I've seen some cases where a cheap filter that they then had in for 10k miles where the media shrank enough and was crummy enough it actually split and was now no longer even filtering.


Regarding whether to do a "Maintenance Service" at a shop vs just an oil change: If you go to a shop that cares, when they do just a regular oil change they'll typically (or in my opinion: Should) give the car a general look over - shake down suspension, look at brakes/tires/leaks. Keep the owner informed on the state of things so they know what repairs might be coming up. Like I mentioned above, I'd just be familiar with what services your car is due for when and make sure to take care of them as they come up.

I will say too that 60-75k is often the time that cars will start coming due for repairs of some sort - seems like in that 6-8 year/80ish thousand mile area it's not uncommon to start seeing oil leaks, suspension parts start to require attention, brakes, etc.


Sorry for the lengthy post, this is one I'm quick to rant about seeing the aftermath of when folks don't do anything to take care of their car. Too often you hear "but it's never needed a thing?!" - Sadly, they just never had anyone that cared keeping an eye on it, so it's now accumulated a list of repairs that shock the owners system. Most stuff don't just sneak up on you...

FWIW - despite having the best case commute for not needing frequent oil changes (37 miles each way, mostly highway), I still change mine on the 5K's. I'm at 272K at the moment, bought the car with 102. It's gotten a couple oil changes...

My car is an early build of it's chassis generation, and timing chain issues were not unheard of. Reliability being critical for a daily driver, I proactively did them at about 180k. The engine looked like brand new inside, and none of the common parts were showing any signs of failure or wear.

I can dig through my phone and find all sorts of pictures of why simple oil changes make a big difference...

FWIW II - I'm also not a believer in setting your oil change schedule based on the Blackstone Labs style oil analysis reports. Done rod bearings on too many M3's that had a clean bill of health that came with Blackstone's blessing that there wasn't any bearing in the oil. In my experience most often the people that have them done seem to just want an excuse to not change the oil (such simple insurance!?).

 

[Bill D]

I religiously change my oil yearly regardless of the few miles I drive in that time. It is definitely cheap insurance and has paid off for me many times.

 

[vaca22]

I am not a handy person but I learned to do oil changes myself and have been doing so for over 20 years. That way I know exactly what oil is going in my car and I skip the inconvenience and bs of a dealer. When my car needs real work done I’ll take it to a private mechanic who understands how anal I am about my cars

I have certainly considered doing this in the past. The only thing stopping me was this thought:

...if I get ramps and drive up on them, the engine block is essentially tilted back. Does that mean the old oil doesn't fully drain out?

 

[Bill D]

I'm not sure because Im not a mechanic. I have a lift so I was never concerned about it

 

[vaca22]

IMO.....any new car doesn't need any service except oil changes/tire rotation for the first 50,000 miles.

Also.....why is the car. not still under factory warranty at 15,000 miles?...almost all cars first service is free

Right, the first service was at 7,500 and it was an oil change with inspection, which was "complimentary" (I love that word). Hell, the 2nd oil change at 15k might have also been complimentary, but they threw the $200 service at my when I got to the counter.

 

[bbmach]

I have certainly considered doing this in the past. The only thing stopping me was this thought:

...if I get ramps and drive up on them, the engine block is essentially tilted back. Does that mean the old oil doesn't fully drain out?

All depends on where the drain plug is in relationship to the oil pan. Change the oil regularly and that little bit left won't matter. You could also pour a little fresh oil in the top once it stops draining, and wait until the clean oil starts flowing...

 

[Bosko]

they threw the $200 service at my when I got to the counter.

I'm surprised they didn't tell you the last guy that was there and turned down the service was sent to the front line in the Ukraine...

 

[vaca22]

Long and extremely helpful post.

That was great, thank you so much, excellent advice. I used to change the oil in my 2005 Mazda 3 religiously, and it got me to 269k. I was trying for 300k, and it would have happened, but it was starting to rust and I was getting REAL tired of driving a manual car for basically all of my life.

Thoughts on synthetic vs conventional as a choice? I'm assuming synthetic is always better?

Also, my current car has one of these GDI things and I keep hearing stories of carbon buildup that eventually ruins the engines. Is that a farce?

 

[dgage]

Interesting you mention this about the dealer. I just got a text from my friend yesterday that the Hyundai dealer changed his timing belt twice within 15,000 miles with the second time the paperwork showed “customer requested”. I almost wonder if they even replaced it either time. That would add insult to injury.

I’m of the opinion that the oil and transmission fluids should be replaced regularly but other maintenance should go by interval (timing belts, filters) and check (brakes). On the transmission, I’ve switched to more often than what factory states, usually 25-30,000 miles since transmissions are so complex and expensive today. And oil changes are usually every 7,500 to 10,000 miles depending on if it’s me driving or my wife. More often for me since I drive more aggressively. And oil changes are always Mobil 1 Full Synthetic and I buy the 5 liter bottles at Walmart (cheapest) and take to my mechanic to use.

And finally, I have a mechanic I trust and use them for regular maintenance and not a car dealer unless it is warranty work.

 

[glen e]

I used ramps for years and I’m confident that I got a good oil change. What’s left in there is not enough to worry about. I changed every 5000 but recently being retired, I hit the time interval before I hit the mileage interval, so I change annually… I use a local Jiffy Lube I trust and can watch closely, I use a synthetic blend.

 

[MisterSnoop]

In the past, I've compared the owners manual maintenance to what the dealer lists for their services. The dealership services always have some add-ons or more conservative intervals. I've mostly done either oil change or oil change/tire rotation and asked for specific services if I wanted them. The complimentary 31 point inspection they do covers a lot of what the manual recommends anyway. Otherwise you're paying them way too much to replace air filters, clean the battery, change spark plugs, etc.

 

[dgage]

That was great, thank you so much, excellent advice. I used to change the oil in my 2005 Mazda 3 religiously, and it got me to 269k. I was trying for 300k, and it would have happened, but it was starting to rust and I was getting REAL tired of driving a manual car for basically all of my life.

Thoughts on synthetic vs conventional as a choice? I'm assuming synthetic is always better?

Also, my current car has one of these GDI things and I keep hearing stories of carbon buildup that eventually ruins the engines. Is that a farce?

I’m a full synthetic oil guy but there are a ton of cars on the road that I sure get high mileage and use conventional motor oil. I think regular maintenance is more important than what is used. The only real thought I have is don’t switch back and forth though frankly that probably doesn’t have any scientific basis other than synthetic oil has more consistent particle sizes.

GDI is a direct injection engine and yes, there have been stories of carbon build up on the first versions of the engines but I think that has been addressed by most manufacturers by now. With newer vehicles it shouldn’t be an issue now but for older vehicles, you could consider an oil catch can but that bypasses emissions since it is now opening the engine to the atmosphere and allowing gases to escape. You may also want to regularly clean the engine with an oil additive to ensure any carbon deposits are removed. My mechanic has an oil cleaner he recommends that he puts in, runs the engine for 1,000 miles or so, and then does another oil change. I’d probably only recommend that if the engine shows signs of build up.

 

[Bill D]

My only car that gets conventional oil is my old Cadillac. That’s because that’s all it’s ever seen in its 30+year old life.

 

[bbmach]

Technician by trade, been doing it for 22 years. Cut my teeth as fulltime tech at the dealer for 10 years, have been at a specialized (2 make only) independent since. (Left the dealership as it was turning into strictly being a big money machine, no longer about providing the kind of service I feel people deserve).

Like so many things, there's not a catch-all answer there as far as "nothing until 60-75K". It all depends on what the maintenance schedule is for your car.

Some cars may need spark plugs at 100k per the book, but others are due at 30K. Air filters seem on average 30-55k. Cabin filters are sometimes recommended by mileage (every 20k), sometimes by time (every 2 years with the brake fluid flush). Some cars are to get transmission fluid changed (legitimately) every 40k, some cars are "lifetime".


What I will say from my experience is:

Change your oil every 5k, even with synthetic (more often if you're a chronic short-tripper). It's not a matter of the oil breaking down, it's a matter of all the byproducts that build up in the oil by way of internal combustion/wear parts. I don't care if BMW says you can go 13k, or 15k, or I've seen as high as 24K till the next oil change - the cars Don't Like It.

Don't go to rapid oil places. Often you can have your oil changed by someone actually familiar with your car for less (example: We're on average $10-20 less than receipts people have shown me from rapid oil change places, and our oil filters aren't made from recycled kleenex). And I've seen waaay more bad things than good from rapid oil places (I once drained 22 liters of oil from a V8 M3 that they just couldn't figure out how to properly drain and set the level on. They tried 3 times... Capacity is around 9 liters... :doh: ).
Quick lube places will also too often will say you need maintenance x/y/z simply because they're on commission for selling those fluids/etc.

Use a quality oil filter, and I don't mean Napa Gold. I see sooooo many cheap oil filters (from at home DIY'rs as well as other shops that apparently don't know better) where they've got garbage quality o-rings that pour oil when it's cold out, or the filter media is so poor the filter collapses down on itself (insert style filter, I can only imagine the spin on filter's doing the same thing inside). I've seen some cases where a cheap filter that they then had in for 10k miles where the media shrank enough and was crummy enough it actually split and was now no longer even filtering.


Regarding whether to do a "Maintenance Service" at a shop vs just an oil change: If you go to a shop that cares, when they do just a regular oil change they'll typically (or in my opinion: Should) give the car a general look over - shake down suspension, look at brakes/tires/leaks. Keep the owner informed on the state of things so they know what repairs might be coming up. Like I mentioned above, I'd just be familiar with what services your car is due for when and make sure to take care of them as they come up.

I will say too that 60-75k is often the time that cars will start coming due for repairs of some sort - seems like in that 6-8 year/80ish thousand mile area it's not uncommon to start seeing oil leaks, suspension parts start to require attention, brakes, etc.


Sorry for the lengthy post, this is one I'm quick to rant about seeing the aftermath of when folks don't do anything to take care of their car. Too often you hear "but it's never needed a thing?!" - Sadly, they just never had anyone that cared keeping an eye on it, so it's now accumulated a list of repairs that shock the owners system. Most stuff don't just sneak up on you...

FWIW - despite having the best case commute for not needing frequent oil changes (37 miles each way, mostly highway), I still change mine on the 5K's. I'm at 272K at the moment, bought the car with 102. It's gotten a couple oil changes...

My car is an early build of it's chassis generation, and timing chain issues were not unheard of. Reliability being critical for a daily driver, I proactively did them at about 180k. The engine looked like brand new inside, and none of the common parts were showing any signs of failure or wear.

I can dig through my phone and find all sorts of pictures of why simple oil changes make a big difference...

FWIW II - I'm also not a believer in setting your oil change schedule based on the Blackstone Labs style oil analysis reports. Done rod bearings on too many M3's that had a clean bill of health that came with Blackstone's blessing that there wasn't any bearing in the oil. In my experience most often the people that have them done seem to just want an excuse to not change the oil (such simple insurance!?).

Most excellent post - and IMHO right on the money. The only thing I would change is Napa Gold filters are made by Wix (at least for my applications), and are at the higher end of consumer filters...

Dealers have their place, along with the factory trained techs.

Oh, one other thing I would add: All an owner has to do, service-wise, is what is stated in their owners manual. Dealerships are independent franchises and will have their own schedule, adding things that aren't necessarily a bad thing, but aren't required to keep a car warranty compliant. It never hurts to change fluids and filters early.