Polishing my black 2018 Acura RDX - seeking advice.

Well I spoke too soon. Still getting micromarring. Its in a circular pattern in the shape of the pad.

Tried my orange pad. Same result. These 6.5 inch pads are hard to use on all these curved surfaces and I think the sharp edge on the Griots pads might be the culprit as another poster mentioned. (I primed the edges too)

This car is starting to frustrate me :mad:. I'm going to try a smaller pad with a contoured edge and see if that's more forgiving.

Here’s a pic of the marring:
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The initial posts screamed there was something wrong with the wipe off towels. Seems toy have that.

For something like this?

1. Still the Griot's G9?
2. What pad? Orange Griots?
3. What speed?
4. How much pressure?
5. What polish?

What wax are you using? How is it being applied?

I have some go to products and procedures for those situations, but the remedy is second nature rather than panic these days. I used to get a lot of that towel marring from your first post way back when I was using terry cloth towels to wipe off residues. It was frustrating chasing the tail back then. I'm 1999 one of the local paint and body shop stores got me on old t-shirt cloths to remedy the issue. Microfiber was a godsend!
 
Like I said earlier in the thread.... that paint is butter soft.

Get some 5 in. Buff and Shine red pads and some Carpro Essence
 
The initial posts screamed there was something wrong with the wipe off towels. Seems toy have that.

For something like this?

1. Still the Griot's G9?
2. What pad? Orange Griots?
3. What speed?
4. How much pressure?
5. What polish?

What wax are you using? How is it being applied?

I have some go to products and procedures for those situations, but the remedy is second nature rather than panic these days. I used to get a lot of that towel marring from your first post way back when I was using terry cloth towels to wipe off residues. It was frustrating chasing the tail back then. I'm 1999 one of the local paint and body shop stores got me on old t-shirt cloths to remedy the issue. Microfiber was a godsend!

Could have 2 different issues since the paint is so soft. I think my towel game is sorted out. I'd be applying Jescar power lock after this is all done since I have some left over from another car.

1. Yes
2. Black (tried orange, not good results)
3. 4
4. Tool weight + light pressure from my hand - 10-15 lbs total? (a guess)
5. Griots Perfecting cream

Like I said earlier in the thread.... that paint is butter soft.

Get some 5 in. Buff and Shine red pads and some Carpro Essence

I saw your post early on and I think you're on the money. I've got some Mezerna 3800 on order based on your original suggestion (should I try and change to essence? Not sure if I can modify my order).

Is the pad you're talking about the 'Red Uro-Cell Finishing Pad' ?

Do you have any idea how the Buff and Shine reds compare to the Griots black or red? I have griots red (wax pads) that I've not tried yet which sound similar.
 
If the paint is that delicate you may wish to try Wet Coat or similar LSP to minimize touching the paint.
 
Could have 2 different issues since the paint is so soft. I think my towel game is sorted out. I'd be applying Jescar power lock after this is all done since I have some left over from another car.

1. Yes
2. Black (tried orange, not good results)
3. 4
4. Tool weight + light pressure from my hand - 10-15 lbs total? (a guess)
5. Griots Perfecting cream



I saw your post early on and I think you're on the money. I've got some Mezerna 3800 on order based on your original suggestion. Do you have any idea how the Buff and Shine reds compare to the Griots black or red? I have griots red (wax pads) that I've not tried yet.

Yes, it does look like your towels are sorted.

I'm not famaliar with the Griot's line first hand, but that marring looks similar to what I would sometimes get with Meguiar's M205 on a really soft clear coat.

The last time I had this issue was on a black gmc Sierra. I was using 3D ONE on yellow B&S Uro-Tec pads. I switched to ACA520 on white Uro-Tec and was still getting haze. I was using a Rupes Duetto on speed 2.

I then switched to 3D AAT502 and it did the trick. It sounds like the Griot's product is comparable to a non diminishing abrasive like the 3D and Meguiar's M205 / M210 / Ultimate Polish.

Be careful with "priming" by spreading the polish over the pad. It can put more abrasives than needed on the paint. Once you've done one set of section passes a foam pad will "self" prime anyways. Occasionally you may have to go back and re-polish that initial section. Since I switched to 3D I haven't had to do that though.

The Griot's polishes are water based, and can be "altered" with a light spritz of water. I usually only do this (with ONR 256:1) when working with cutting compounds like M105 or the old Rupes Zephir.

Because the Griot's product is non diminishing, you may want to try a light mist of water on the pad - like spray it in the air and let it fall on the pad. Start with a small amount of product on the pad, something like three small drops - four if you use the 6" pad.

Not, to be clear I use my ONR (256:1) rater than straight water because it adds a bit more lubrication, and goes farther than plain water. This might really help your situation because it should help buffer the abrasives more than the polish alone or the addition of water. When I use it with heavy cutting compounds it's more to re-activate the abrasives than to lubricate or buffer anything. I never noticed a drop in cut with those harsh compounds, but it might have more affect on the finishing polishes because of the lighter abrasive load and / or the possibility of smaller abrasive grains.

I have also switched to my Porter Cable with blue Buff and Shine / Hex Logic pads to remove that kind of marring.

Other pads you could try are the Buff and Shine Uro-Cell. I used to use a similar pad in the Lake Country Hydrotech. The red one is probably the on you would need. The red Buff and Shine and the red Griot's are almost identical if I remember correctly. I also believe that Griot's sourced Buff and Shine to make their pads for them. There aren't many actual pad manufacturers out there.

Finally, the use of the Menzerna should take care of the issue. It's an ultra fine diminishing abrasive. While I haven't needed it in years, I do have Menzerna SF4000 (now 3800) on hand still, and I could finish anything out. Today my preference for diminishing abrasive products are the Jescar line. Their Micro Polish resists dusting and wipes off much easier than the Menzerna.

Best of luck!
 
While all of the suggestions of trying different products and pads can certainly help, they require you to go out and buy stuff you don't have. Not discounting those suggestions, but unless you have an inventory of different products to try, it's a little harder to accommodate.

In most cases I have found that the desired results can usually be achieved using the products you have on hand by simply altering your process as the conditions dictate, i.e., tool speed, arm speed, amount of product, pressure, etc.

One specific example relative to your case is where you said you're using approximately 10-15 lbs. of pressure on the polisher. Try less... especially for the final few passes. I typically finish with near zero pressure, just enough to keep the pad in contact with the surface. I'll actually be lifting the polisher slightly rather than pushing on the polisher as I guide it along.
 
While all of the suggestions of trying different products and pads can certainly help, they require you to go out and buy stuff you don't have. Not discounting those suggestions, but unless you have an inventory of different products to try, it's a little harder to accommodate.

In most cases I have found that the desired results can usually be achieved using the products you have on hand by simply altering your process as the conditions dictate, i.e., tool speed, arm speed, amount of product, pressure, etc.

One specific example relative to your case is where you said you're using approximately 10-15 lbs. of pressure on the polisher. Try less... especially for the final few passes. I typically finish with near zero pressure, just enough to keep the pad in contact with the surface. I'll actually be lifting the polisher slightly rather than pushing on the polisher as I guide it along.


I agree with this concept. I hate throwing money at an issue unless I'm fairly certain it will result in a solution. I have not yet tried reducing the pressure, a light mist with water, or my griots red pads. What has been your experience with varying arm speed and tool speed?

I'm sure my technique is not great as a beginner. Out of frustration I ordered the 3800 to try. I have not ordered any additional pads yet.

I'll keep this thread updated with whatever combo works.
 
... What has been your experience with varying arm speed and tool speed?.

For final finishing with a free-spinning DA, I typically adjust my tool speed to the lowest speed that will maintain a consistent pad rotation AND provide a smooth polishing action, and then bump it up just slightly from there (usually around 4 on a 1-6 scale, give or take). The best finishes are obtained when the pad movements are consistent and smooth. But it is not only tool speed that contributes.

Everything working together, i.e., pad, product, pressure, tool speed, etc., all contribute. You can tweak any of these, or any combination thereof, to find the combination that works best.

As far as arm speed goes, I don't think it's an overly significant factor, within reason. If your arm speed is a little faster than the next guy, make a few extra passes. If you're slower, then a few less passes. The important factor is the amount of time spent polishing on a given area.
 
Could have 2 different issues since the paint is so soft. I think my towel game is sorted out. I'd be applying Jescar power lock after this is all done since I have some left over from another car.

1. Yes
2. Black (tried orange, not good results)
3. 4
4. Tool weight + light pressure from my hand - 10-15 lbs total? (a guess)
5. Griots Perfecting cream



I saw your post early on and I think you're on the money. I've got some Mezerna 3800 on order based on your original suggestion (should I try and change to essence? Not sure if I can modify my order).

Is the pad you're talking about the 'Red Uro-Cell Finishing Pad' ?

Do you have any idea how the Buff and Shine reds compare to the Griots black or red? I have griots red (wax pads) that I've not tried yet which sound similar.

I also have zero experience with any of Griots products....

Like said above those tooling marks you're getting are common when dealing with insanely soft paint.

Acura, Nissan and BMW jet black are some of the softest paints on the market and can be down right miserable to finish down flawless.

Menzerna 3800 has a very long work time and is a diminishing abrasive which you need.

For pressure just use the weight of the polisher ONLY. Do a few passes on speed 5 then do two passes dropping it down to speed 3.

No need to order Essence right now but imo it does a very good job on soft paints for someone with a less then perfect technique.

The Menzerna 3800 is a bit greasy, it bothers some.... it does not bother me in the least for it helps pad friction and also helps the micro fiber slide during removal.

Imo Menzerna 3800 and CarPro Essence are second to none when dealing with liquid soft pain in the D clears.

I have a Jet Black bmw that has clear comparable to what you're dealing with, I consider myself very experienced and it was very difficult to get it to finish down flawless, especially on rolling body lines.

6e114124139210c14651bf1925f6f310.jpg


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f1ab168727ec181606cfcdd520b0f073.jpg


dbe4d8e8c94166929171867f3e7fd8e5.jpg


40d9ee3a45cb8adf8ae72e91b3017072.jpg


ee2e65d285e330e36f568d2c1a1ff4bd.jpg
 
I also have zero experience with any of Griots products....

Like said above those tooling marks you're getting are common when dealing with insanely soft paint.

Acura, Nissan and BMW jet black are some of the softest paints on the market and can be down right miserable to finish down flawless.

Menzerna 3800 has a very long work time and is a diminishing abrasive which you need.

For pressure just use the weight of the polisher ONLY. Do a few passes on speed 5 then do two passes dropping it down to speed 3.

No need to order Essence right now but imo it does a very good job on soft paints for someone with a less then perfect technique.

The Menzerna 3800 is a bit greasy, it bothers some.... it does not bother me in the least for it helps pad friction and also helps the micro fiber slide during removal.

Imo Menzerna 3800 and CarPro Essence are second to none when dealing with liquid soft pain in the D clears.

I have a Jet Black bmw that has clear comparable to what you're dealing with, I consider myself very experienced and it was very difficult to get it to finish down flawless, especially on rolling body lines.


Thanks for the clarification. Sounding like I jumped into the deep end with this vehicle but may now be headed toward the right track. I'll try pairing the 3800 with this red pad and report back!

Can you recommend 3 inch version of that pad as well? I did not see one for that particular line-up.

That bmw looks fire! What did you do for LSP on it?
 
I just watched a vid from Obsidian Detail where he recommends panel wiping after polish with quality, plush (350/370 GSM) CLEAN towels and a rinseless wash product like ONR. Especially on soft, sensitive paints.
 
Update time!

I had some time to work on the car again today. Since last time I've acquired:

- Menzerna 3800
- BnS flat pad 6 pack (2 reds, 2 blacks, blue, and green)
- 5 inch backing plate

As [mention]98CayenneTA [/mention] suggested, I gave it a go with the 3800 + red ultimate finishing pad. Did one test section then inspected outside in bright sun. No micro marring as far as I can tell! The paint finishes down extremely well with this setup. 85-90% of the defects are removed. Since this is a daily driver I'm more than pleased with these results. Worth noting that I also gave the pad a spritz with some free "pad conditioner" that came with my polishers. I think it provides some additional lubrication. Not sure how impactful that is since I did not try without yet.

Some other notes:
- I found the 5 inch backing plate easier to wield.
- I found that the 3800 wipes off pretty easily. It kind of sets up then wipes off almost like a wax.
- BnS black, blue, and red seem almost interchangeable. The green is noticeably stiffer. I wish they made 3 inch pads as the 6 pack was a deal and I'm finding they work great.
- I’m going to try that megs hybrid paint coating when I’m done since I read it’s user friendly.

Here is the result:
9719f92f929286681a109d413fd44f54.jpg



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Glad it worked out for you.

I think you'll like the Meg's Hybrid Paint Coating (HPC). I know I do! I used it for the first time a couple weeks ago and was really impressed. Super slick finish and really easy to use.

The only caution I would give you with your soft paint is to be really careful with your panel prep step. You don't want to mar it up now that you finally have the polishing solved.

Here's a link to my first experience with the HPC...
Meguiar's Hybrid Paint Coating - First Use
 
- BnS flat pad 6 pack (2 reds, 2 blacks, blue, and green)


- BnS black, blue, and red seem almost interchangeable. The green is noticeably stiffer. I wish they made 3 inch pads as the 6 pack was a deal and I'm finding they work great.

B&S pads are very good, but don't narrow your mind to just that brand.

Lake Country, Griot's, and many others offer 3" pads which are excellent. :)
 
Looks good, glad it worked out.

Carpro, Lake Country and Rupes all make very nice pads in the 3in. sizes.

Post up some more pictures when it's all done.
 
Nice job, 3800 is nice. I used to use it, still have some on the shelf but found its wipe off to be a tick on the oily side.

Try it without using the pad conditioner. Just my opinion but i dont see how using a pad conditioner helps. Techinally you are softening the pad before even starting your buffing cycle. Therefore the pad breaks down faster and reduces the amount of time it stays effective.

All im suggesting is just dont start a habbit that may not be needed to get intended results.

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I'd been meaning to post a follow up to this thread, but life got busy. The project is done and was overall a success. I basically paint corrected the whole car with Menzerna 3800 and those B&S red finishing pads. It's not perfect, but the car almost glows now. Thanks to all who helped me figure out this difficult paint.

Another thing I learned is that if you tape off rubber trim, pull the tape immediately and wipe off the polish that collects at the tape line. If it sits for a while, (which it did because of time constraints) it becomes really hard to remove. I spent more time than I care to admit cleaning this up.

After the polishing was completed and the paint was prepped, I applied Megs Hybrid Paint Coating. This product was extremely easy to apply and buff off and now the car sheds water extremely well. They claim 12 months, so we will see.



Here are some pics of the finished work:

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