How many times can you buff?

Blackthornone said:
He said a NEW vehicle, not one with bodywork or previous polishing or any previous work done to it. I think it's a reasonable question.
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Do you know how many new cars get damaged on the way to the dealer lot(off the train and semi's)? They wetsand, polish and even re-paint lots of cars. Funny thing is, they don't even have to tell you.
 
It is a reasonable question.

For example, how many times can I use SIP on a typical paint before even getting concerned about going through the clear -- we know 1 is ok, 2 is ok, 3 ? 4? 5? times?

Mike P, can you provide guidance?
 
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Rsurfer said:
Sports, you ask a loaded question and you got loaded answers. Lou, Dana and Christian gave you the best answers possible. Short of getting a PTG you won't really know. Just use good washing techniques and use the least aggressive correction and you'll get 10+ years of enjoyment.
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Yes, I understand I asked a loaded question... and I know a PTG is best. But, was just wondering from you pros out there, what your estimates were... that's all. And yes, my question is not necessarily based on my car. We were just talking in the lunchroom, and one guy stated "I'll NEVER buff my car... I'm worried I'll take the clear coat off!".

So then I countered and stated, "If you buff it correctly and use the minimum correction needed to remove defects, you'll be fine."

But then he asked me the million dollar question, which is what I posted to the forum: "Then how much paint do you remove every buff and how many times can I buff my car before I eat away the clearcoat?" So that's when I didn't know what to say or how to answer.

See? That's what I was getting at, hence my post/thread.
 
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2003 GMC Denali said:
Mike... please stop the silliness.

I want to know the ultimate answer as well.
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There is no ultimate answer. Paint thickness has nothing to do with resprays, it all has to do with the amount of that each manufacturer uses to finish a car. This amount varies between brands and even between paint colors so it is impossible to tell. Some BMW hard clears have been up to 300+ microns thick out of the factory, while some japanese cars (Mazda RX8s come to mind) have extremely thin paint (think 60-70 microns, very thin) out of the factory.

If you want an answer, the minimum you can do is search on google for your cars paint thickness and hope to find an answer from a forum where someone has done a detail where paint measurements were taken.

For instance I would google: black Saab paint thickness. Thats how I helped sportscarhiatus with those numbers, but honestly there is nothing more to say on the subject since it has been repeated multiple times that you cannot know for sure without using a paint thickness gauge since every single car is different.
 
sportscarhiatus said:
So then I countered and stated, "If you buff it correctly and use the minimum correction needed to remove defects, you'll be fine."

But then he asked me the million dollar question, which is what I posted to the forum: "Then how much paint do you remove every buff and how many times can I buff my car before I eat away the clearcoat?" So that's when I didn't know what to say or how to answer.
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Thats fine, but I think the issue was it seemed to Dana and Lou that you were rejecting their advice even though they were really giving you the best answers any professional could give you.

But like I said; that original buff to get rid of the majority of swirls will remove more clear since you will be leveling deeper defects. Then, assuming your washing and maintenence procedures are sound and you don't instill any more significant swirling, subsequent maintenence buffing with a finishing polish and pad to maintain your finish will remove less than 1 micron of paint. The key is to avoid re-swirling your car!
 
loudog2 said:
Do you know how many new cars get damaged on the way to the dealer lot(off the train and semi's)? They wetsand, polish and even re-paint lots of cars. Funny thing is, they don't even have to tell you.
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Wow, I missed a page. Sorry about that.
 
For what it's worth, in all the years I've been detailing cars, working with other's that detail cars, teaching detailing classes and posting to forums, I've rarely encountered "enthusiast detailers" that have buffed so much that they've buffed through the clear layer and exposed the color coat layer.

:)
 
How about this,

Without measuring the paint thickness, there is no way to know. But, an average new(er) car with factory paint that has not previously been polished can have the paint corrected, buffed and maintained swirl-free as long or longer than the car will likely be on the road, when "properly" cared for.

As has been stated already, the first "correction" step will remove the most paint, after that you can maintain the finish with very light polishing a 1-2 times a year. If you have to compound twice a year its a different story. [sarcasm]You can "maintain" buff exactly 100 times, and "correction" buff exactly 5 times[/sarcasm]

You win the argument Vs the "I'll NEVER buff my car" guy. :xyxthumbs:
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
For what it's worth, in all the years I've been detailing cars, working with other's that detail cars, teaching detailing classes and posting to forums, I've rarely encountered "enthusiast detailers" that have buffed so much that they've buffed through the clear layer and exposed the color coat layer.
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That's a good enough answer for me ! :dblthumb2:
 
2003 GMC Denali said:
That's a good enough answer for me ! :dblthumb2:
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That was the ultimate answer you wanted? No one else gave any other good explanations like the different variables involved? Sportscar still wants to know how many times it would take. Just like Dana and I, mike didn't give a number, but that's fine?
 
Ya, I suppose.

No matter what vehicle anybody has ever worked on, Mike has never seen anybody buff through the Clear Coat.

That says it for me and as a newbie... I worried about how much I was taking off.

I appreciate that every Vehicle is different... and that it would be impossible for the experts to say out loud how many times an individual can buff out his or her Paint.

So ya... what Mike says, is good enough for me.
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
For what it's worth, in all the years I've been detailing cars, working with other's that detail cars, teaching detailing classes and posting to forums, I've rarely encountered "enthusiast detailers" that have buffed so much that they've buffed through the clear layer and exposed the color coat layer.

:)
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2003 GMC Denali said:
Ya, I suppose.

No matter what vehicle anybody has ever worked on, Mike has never seen anybody buff through the Clear Coat.

That says it for me and as a newbie... I worried about how much I was taking off.

I appreciate that every Vehicle is different... and that it would be impossible for the experts to say out loud how many times an individual can buff out his or her Paint.

So ya... what Mike says, is good enough for me.
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Mike didn't say that he has never seen anybody buff through the Clear Coat. He said "I've rarely encountered "enthusiast detailers" that have buffed so much that they've buffed through the clear layer and exposed the color coat layer". To me the word rarely means it has happened and is still not definitive. As much as Mike has been around does rarely mean he has seen it one, twice,....,10 times etc.? I think his answer was as loaded as the answers provided by the other experts and still did not give a specific # like the OP was looking for. To summarize; I don't think his answer was anymore definitive than the other experts. Just my opinion.
 
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2003 GMC Denali said:
Ya, I suppose.

No matter what vehicle anybody has ever worked on, Mike has never seen anybody buff through the Clear Coat.

That says it for me and as a newbie... I worried about how much I was taking off.

I appreciate that every Vehicle is different... and that it would be impossible for the experts to say out loud how many times an individual can buff out his or her Paint.

So ya... what Mike says, is good enough for me.
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Thats a bit insulting to be honest. There were a number of people who offered specific advise for a specific question and you basically just threw it in their faces. The OP wanted specifics on paint depth for his/her particular vehicle, so I actually searched for it and gave them the numbers to try and answer the best I could. In general, you will not have the vehicle long enough to actually buff it enough where over time you will go completely through the clear. So refrain from degrading the efforts of those who were offering advice and took the time to search for answers.
 
christian900se said:
Thats a bit insulting to be honest. There were a number of people who offered specific advise for a specific question and you basically just threw it in their faces. The OP wanted specifics on paint depth for his/her particular vehicle, so I actually searched for it and gave them the numbers to try and answer the best I could. In general, you will not have the vehicle long enough to actually buff it enough where over time you will go completely through the clear. So refrain from degrading the efforts of those who were offering advice and took the time to search for answers.
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:applause:
 
Thanks Mike for the practical answer.
 
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